Forum FYI: Why Dual Call to Arms weapons don't stack for barbs (1.28.04 restoration)
Since there seems to be a lot of confusion regarding the proper functioning of these items, and a massive amount of posts providing false information on the topic, I decided to put up this thread for easy reference until such time as the Barb FAQ can be updated.
Why call to arms weapons don't stack for barbs:
First off, the runeword itself has been altered from the beta to use different runes (amn ral mal ist OHM) and to likewise provide lower totals for the three warcries in question; thus, there is no way to get +26 from item in general.
Now then, one of the most common misconceptions about CtA is that if a barb wields two at one time, he can greatly increase his skill with Battle Orders by upwards of +8-12. In reality though, if you actually went out and made two copies of this rather expensive runeword in hopes of garnering a massive increase to your cries, you will be sadly dissapointed, and here is why:
Prior to 1.10, we had three major types of +skill items: items that gave +to all skills in a single tree (tskills), items that gave +to a specific skill for it's base class in general (this is including the +skills on class-specific items, which we will call cskills), and items that gave +all skills (askills). With the advent of the patch, however, a new form was added: +to a specific skill, while granting it to all classes, which we shall henceforth refer to as "oskills." Items that fall into this category, such as Enigma, CtA, and Trang's set pieces, grant a specific skill such as BO, Fireball, or Teleport to all classes.
In order to nerf the power of these items a bit, a limiter has been placed in the code structure that puts a cap of +3 on the amount of extra skill a class can receive from an oskill item if said skill is in their skill tree to begin with. Thus, a sorc wearing trang's set pieces would only gain +3 to fireball, rather than +18. Similarly, a barbarian wielding two CtA weapons can only get a maximum total of +5 to BO from them (+3 from the oskill, and then +2 from the askill mod on each weapon). Keep in mind that this limitation only applies to oskill items; you can raise your BO as much as you want through askill, cskill, and tskill items and effects, but only by +3 from an oskiller.
A few tables, to help explain all this jibberish:
2x CtA Weapons: +(4-5) BO/BCom/BCry, +2 to all other warcries;
1x CtA and 1x "Echoing" weapons: +(5-7) BO/BComm/BCry, +4 to all other warcries;
2x "Echoing" weapons: +6 to all warcries
This is, in effect, why CtA weapons are relatively useless to barbarians; they are not only excessively expensive, but are also less powerful than their far, far cheaper cousins, the "Echoing" weapons. Granted, there is the possibility to obtain +7 to BO/BComm/BCry in the second scenario posted above, but even in that event one would be losing the extra +2 that would've been granted to all your skills by twin echoing weapons. It is in the best interest of the barbarian player to just stick with tried-and-true echoers, which cost only gold and can be easily shopped in later levels, rather than wasting valuable runes in this virtually worthless runeword.
-Hal
reposted 1.28.04 following forum wipe
Since there seems to be a lot of confusion regarding the proper functioning of these items, and a massive amount of posts providing false information on the topic, I decided to put up this thread for easy reference until such time as the Barb FAQ can be updated.
Why call to arms weapons don't stack for barbs:
First off, the runeword itself has been altered from the beta to use different runes (amn ral mal ist OHM) and to likewise provide lower totals for the three warcries in question; thus, there is no way to get +26 from item in general.
Now then, one of the most common misconceptions about CtA is that if a barb wields two at one time, he can greatly increase his skill with Battle Orders by upwards of +8-12. In reality though, if you actually went out and made two copies of this rather expensive runeword in hopes of garnering a massive increase to your cries, you will be sadly dissapointed, and here is why:
Prior to 1.10, we had three major types of +skill items: items that gave +to all skills in a single tree (tskills), items that gave +to a specific skill for it's base class in general (this is including the +skills on class-specific items, which we will call cskills), and items that gave +all skills (askills). With the advent of the patch, however, a new form was added: +to a specific skill, while granting it to all classes, which we shall henceforth refer to as "oskills." Items that fall into this category, such as Enigma, CtA, and Trang's set pieces, grant a specific skill such as BO, Fireball, or Teleport to all classes.
In order to nerf the power of these items a bit, a limiter has been placed in the code structure that puts a cap of +3 on the amount of extra skill a class can receive from an oskill item if said skill is in their skill tree to begin with. Thus, a sorc wearing trang's set pieces would only gain +3 to fireball, rather than +18. Similarly, a barbarian wielding two CtA weapons can only get a maximum total of +5 to BO from them (+3 from the oskill, and then +2 from the askill mod on each weapon). Keep in mind that this limitation only applies to oskill items; you can raise your BO as much as you want through askill, cskill, and tskill items and effects, but only by +3 from an oskiller.
A few tables, to help explain all this jibberish:
2x CtA Weapons: +(4-5) BO/BCom/BCry, +2 to all other warcries;
1x CtA and 1x "Echoing" weapons: +(5-7) BO/BComm/BCry, +4 to all other warcries;
2x "Echoing" weapons: +6 to all warcries
This is, in effect, why CtA weapons are relatively useless to barbarians; they are not only excessively expensive, but are also less powerful than their far, far cheaper cousins, the "Echoing" weapons. Granted, there is the possibility to obtain +7 to BO/BComm/BCry in the second scenario posted above, but even in that event one would be losing the extra +2 that would've been granted to all your skills by twin echoing weapons. It is in the best interest of the barbarian player to just stick with tried-and-true echoers, which cost only gold and can be easily shopped in later levels, rather than wasting valuable runes in this virtually worthless runeword.
-Hal
reposted 1.28.04 following forum wipe
