Flayer Dungeon for elite set items?

[crazy_bear]

Flayer Dungeon for elite set items?

First of all hello to those who don't know me. I've been posting in the SPHCL thread for a while, but rarely elsewhere. Been playing D2X for about a year now, and have gotten into the HC aspect since picking up on the SPHCL.

Anyway, my zon has found Mavina's Embrace, and Mavina's Tenet, so I looked in ATMA as to where to find the other set pieces. What surpiresed me was at the top of the list was the Flayer Dungeon, right after Baal. Then I checked other set items, and the Flayer Dungeon is near the top of the list for many of them. Funny thing is, the random uniques can drop these items, but not the Witch Doctor Endugu.

So what I want to know is, have any of you out there tried farming the flayers? It seems fairly easy for a zon to run, definitely easier than Baal, and the odds seem surprisingly close to him, and much better than the pit.

 

[Thrugg]

Upgrade your version of ATMA to the latest. I think 5.04c? had a slight bug in it that unfortunately doubled the drop rates for flayers (caused by there being two kinds of flayer, the melee ones and the ranged ones, with the same name in any flayer-infested level. Would not affect the Witch Doctor because ATMA knows there is only one of him.

There is nothing special about the flayer areas that suggest better drops. However, they do have a relatively high monster density, which means more drops per time spent, which translates to more good drops in the long term.

 

[Parsimony]

Using the latest version of ATMA here's what I get:
(Assumes Hell difficulty, players 1, 300% MF)

Odds of dropping a Windforce:
Baal 1:15792
Unique Flayer - Lvl 3 1:21896
Champ Flayer - Lvl 3 1:55502
Reg Flayer - Lvl 3 1:8002382

I think the point is that decent drops really require uniques and champions. If I recall correctly, there are more boss packs in Pit levels 1+2 than there are in Flayer Dungeon levels 1+2+3. (If I'm wrong, someone please correct me.)

 

[Shagsbeard]

A bit off topic, but does ATMA get it's info from the game code, or does it generate it's numbers from data gathered by players? If it's done imperically, probablity at the level we're talking about requires huge data sets. If these numbers we're getting are "pure" then there really is no chance of gaining a specific item in a resonable ammount of play. If windforce does come anywhere near 1:10^4 kills, it's really not worth running for one. The only way to get an item you really really need is to trade for one, or get absurdly lucky.

 

[RTB]

ATMA uses the .txt files. And yes, they are accurate.

 

[tragor]

The only way to get an item you really really need is to trade for one, or get absurdly lucky.

That's what makes the game interesting. Since I don't trade, I either have to get lucky or live with what I find. I pre-plan skills and stats (to some extent) but I never plan on items. The game will give me what it wants. My job is to beat it anyway.

I hadn't looked up drop chances like this. As much as they annoy me, it seems that I should get to know the Flayers a little better.

 

[TekkaZeroX]

ATMA uses the .txt files. And yes, they are accurate.

They use the 1.10s dumps, if I am accurate. The unique text file still has the Bul Katho's Wedding Band at +2 skill level on it in the ATMA config.

 

[Thrugg]

Parsimony, yes and no. It is true that most good drops come from bosses and champions in the Pit, but that is partly because there are so many of thos ein the Pit. In areas where there aren't so many, they don't drop such a big proportion...
If there are 100 or so flayers per boss pack in the jungle, the numbers come out about pretty close.

It should also be noted that if you hunt in a low-boss-density area, it is a lot more worth your while to up the players setting. You almost triple the odds of a drop from a normal monster by playing at p8.

Shagsbeard, ATMA certainly does generate its drop data from the game code. The drop process has been very carefully extracted, it is well understood and all tests bear out its predictions.

I agree, the rarity of a Windforce means that not everyone can have one. A char played through the game clearing each level once will probably kill in the ballpark of 20K creatures, of which maybe 5% will be capable of dropping a WF. But, when you add MF running to that it isn't so unreasonable. I ran Pindle around 10K times in 1.09, by which time I would have "expected" to find one. As it happened Pindle never dropped me one but a random normal monster did - but Pindle dropped me a GF and a CB, which are equally rare, giving me the set of all 1.09 TC87 uniques. I'd have expected one of those to drop by 5K runs. In 1.10, there are far more TC87 uniques, so while getting them all will take as long, getting one unspecified one of them is quite a bit faster.

The numbers for Tyrael's look far worse, of course. And Zod runes, far worse again (which is why a certain scepticism is always attached to claims of those finds).

[edit] you guys type fast Tekka, that is an interesting observation. The runes.txt is definitely from 1.10 final (see Bramble or Call to Arms). Will let Doc know, he probably just had the wrong file in the directory he zipped. Doesn't affect drop rates, of course.

 

[NSXdreamer]

They use the 1.10s dumps, if I am accurate. The unique text file still has the Bul Katho's Wedding Band at +2 skill level on it in the ATMA config.

A bit off topic, but was that +2 skill in both beta version, or only 1.10s?

 

[RTB]

A bit off topic, but was that +2 skill in both beta version, or only 1.10s?

Only 1.10a actually.

 

[NSXdreamer]

Hmm, I thought I had a bul katho's ring drop somewhere during beta, but with only +1 skill. Guess it wasn't from 1.10a then.

*goes off to make friend with 1.10a andy*

 

[HBeachBabe]

First of all hello to those who don't know me. I've been posting in the SPHCL thread for a while, but rarely elsewhere. Been playing D2X for about a year now, and have gotten into the HC aspect since picking up on the SPHCL.

Anyway, my zon has found Mavina's Embrace, and Mavina's Tenet, so I looked in ATMA as to where to find the other set pieces. What surpiresed me was at the top of the list was the Flayer Dungeon, right after Baal. Then I checked other set items, and the Flayer Dungeon is near the top of the list for many of them. Funny thing is, the random uniques can drop these items, but not the Witch Doctor Endugu.

So what I want to know is, have any of you out there tried farming the flayers? It seems fairly easy for a zon to run, definitely easier than Baal, and the odds seem surprisingly close to him, and much better than the pit.

no comment on this. just wanted to say I love your avatar. my partner calls me her 'piggelunk' which is a Swedish hedgehog character.

go go hedgehogs!

 

[crazy_bear]

no comment on this. just wanted to say I love your avatar. my partner calls me her 'piggelunk' which is a Swedish hedgehog character.

go go hedgehogs!

Thanks, that is a picture of my hedgehog that lives in my office with me.

I had ATMA 5.04c, upgraded to 5.04d, but the flayer dungeon was still right at the top. BTW I didn't mention it, but I did mean unique flayers only.
So anyway, checked again and the odds (1 player 0 MF, but the proportion would remain the same if these were changed) specifically for Mavina's True Sight.

Baal: 0.00005
Unique Flayer: 0.00004 (Doesn't matter which level of the flayer dungeon)
Most Uniques: 0.00002 (Seems they have to be at least mlvl 87, includes the pit)

Thresh Socket, Pindle, Frozenstein and Snapchip also have the same odds as the unique Flayers.

Got exactly the same results for a IK Soul Cage, and very similar for Griswalds Honor and Valor, with some variation on other armours (seems lower mlvl req changeds things a lot). In most cases, the Flayer Dungeon was still better odds than most, and equal to the A5 super uniques.

I guess the point is you'd have to kill twice as many bosses in the pits for the same odds as killing unique flayers in the dungeon. (Of which there are a fair number in levels 1 and 2, but not many in 3)

The only way to get an item you really really need is to trade for one, or get absurdly lucky.

Unfortunately, I have to agree on this one. And since I don't really trade.....

Good luck all.