Flawed Game Mechanics

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MercyfulFate

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Flawed Game Mechanics

I was just looking through the Arreat Summit the other day at elite armors and realized something fundamentally flawed.

There is absolutely no reason to use anything but light armors, except maybe for a merc. But for your own characters purposes why would you ever use anything but a light armor? On that note why would you ever use anything but an Archon Plate? (based on numbers alone)

Shouldn't loricated mail with it's heavy category and substantially higher str req offer a higher defense rating? How does a Kraken Shell offer less defense than an Archon Plate? How does a Hellforge Plate give you only six more defense for 93 more str? Not to mention the slower run walk and faster stamina drain.

The way things stand right now, armor selection is a no brainer, Archon Plate. Anything else is just wasted stat points.

/useless rant
 
Re: Flawed Game Mechanics

it(the defense being so close to eachother) was blizzards way of assuring us we'd see more than one type of plate on players, stupid thing was they still have the light/medium/heavy categories so you don't see many of these around

archon plate is too heavy for many characters by they way, they would say a dusk is a no-brainer
 
Re: Flawed Game Mechanics

Some people care about looks too. Even though an enigma in a dusk shroud offers a low str requirement, I would never use a dusk shroud because I think characters look stupid when they're wearing one. I wouldn't mind making some rw in a sacred armor eventually because they look so cool on some characters. Yes, it would have many draw-backs, but it would look awesome.
 
Re: Flawed Game Mechanics

Yeah, that's basically what I was getting at. Besides looking really awesome, there is really no reason (Full Plate and Ancient armor on a barb or pally looks sick). I mean come on based on the str req of a Kraken Plate it should have like 1 3/4 the defense of an archon plate.

I was basically just *****in, I didn't really hope to accomplish anything through this.
 
Re: Flawed Game Mechanics

In previous patches, some of the heavier armors offered a small 5%ish DR bonus, IIRC. I'm not sure why they took that out.

But yeah, many parts of this game are very poorly balanced. They've programmed and fixed enough so that the game is functional... but many aspects still seem poorly thought out. There's not enough staff dedication to this game, and hopefully in the future, someone will take over D2 and fix it.
 
Re: Flawed Game Mechanics

As far as I understand all the difference between heavy and light does is wear your stamina down faster. I do make Fortitude for example in a heavy armor simply because by the level I will be using it my vitality is so high that I never even think of stamina. That only seems to come into play back when a char is level 15 and you have to run to keep up with someone tombing you. But if I have a superior lacquered plate with really nice defense base, I do not think twice about anything but what the end defense will be.
 
Re: Flawed Game Mechanics

MercyfulFate said:
I was just looking through the Arreat Summit the other day at elite armors and realized something fundamentally flawed.

There is absolutely no reason to use anything but light armors, except maybe for a merc. But for your own characters purposes why would you ever use anything but a light armor? On that note why would you ever use anything but an Archon Plate? (based on numbers alone)

Shouldn't loricated mail with it's heavy category and substantially higher str req offer a higher defense rating? How does a Kraken Shell offer less defense than an Archon Plate? How does a Hellforge Plate give you only six more defense for 93 more str? Not to mention the slower run walk and faster stamina drain.

The way things stand right now, armor selection is a no brainer, Archon Plate. Anything else is just wasted stat points.

/useless rant
Click to expand...

I see your point.

I think you may be right.

For runewords, it seems true that light armors like Dusk Shrouds and Archon Plates are really the only choice.

The average defense on a (very heavy) diamond armor will be 436.
For a dusk, it is 414. This difference is neglible, even íf bonuses are applied it will be relatively insignificant. This is true for all runewords, and probably rares too.

By the way, uniques are obviously not accounted for because we can't have the same properties of a unique on both, for example, Dusk Shroud and Archon Plate. We can upgrade the base unique item, but it doesn't have anything to do with elite vs elite armor.

Are there then any reasons for heavy armors to exist? What could they add that light elite armors can't?

I wouldn't not want to make the point of diversity (more armors = more choice), because it still wouldn't explain why heavy armors are more unwanted.

Then, the only point I can possibly make is: the presence of those items is a logical solution (since every armor class has norm-expt-elit) and those items being in the game doesn't degrade the game in any way compared to nót having them in the game.

You could then argue that there should also be some functionality to the elite heavy armors. I agree, it would be nice.
However, seeing as, taking any armor with a defense rating of around 400, very high defense ratings can be reached, I'd much rather say that the light elite armors sport much more defense than they probably should.
So, I would say the problem isn't so much that the heavy armors are not useful, it's that the light armors are too useful. For a lot of characters, Dusk Shroud would seem much less interesting with a - though reasonable - defense rating of 280, wouldn't you agree? That would then be especially true for rare items, maybe still not so much for runewords, since even the cheapest of them already come with very good enhanced defense (even, for example, a "Smoke").


On the subject of things, I really feel PVM Iron Maiden is one of the worst things this game has to offer. It's all find and good that the game forces you to be creative and versatile, but compared to Iron Maiden, even Immunities seem an elegant way of forcing the player to do something.


 
Re: Flawed Game Mechanics

1) R/W speed isn't that important.
2) Irrelevant for non-runewords.
3) Archon plates (especially with the right number of sockets, or ethereal) aren't very common.
4) The difference in defense between an AP and a dusk shroud is minimal, but the strength req is quite lower, and shrouds seem to be more common.
 
Re: Flawed Game Mechanics

1) R/W speed isn't that important.

Tell that to a bowazon/furydruid, other non-teleporter
 
Re: Flawed Game Mechanics

I'm making a wild guess here though as Blizzard had planned to have the armors have inherent damage reduction (higher strength requirements, but more physical damage reduction), this was scrapped though.

- D.J.
 
Re: Flawed Game Mechanics

1) R/W speed isn't that important.
1) Not always, but it helps (see Javazon, Ama, melee classes also). Aside from that, there's also the strength requirements to deal with. It gives you no reason to choose heavy over light, at least.

2) Irrelevant for non-runewords.
2) This issue is indeed not relevant for uniques. It is, however, relevant for rares, as the same rare mods can spawn on both a Dusk and a Diamond Mail. If the defense on the dusk was about the same on both, why choose the Diamond Mail?

3) Archon plates (especially with the right number of sockets, or ethereal) aren't very common.
3) They are very uncommon indeed, but it gives no answer as to why I should prefer a Loricated Mail over an Archon Plate, if I eventually found one of both. However, yes, if it were easier to find Archon Plates... Then people would still be making most of the runewords in Archon Plates, as they are doing now already.

4) The difference in defense between an AP and a dusk shroud is minimal, but the strength req is quite lower, and shrouds seem to be more common.
4) Yes. lighter often seems better.
 
Re: Flawed Game Mechanics

As far as defense per strength efficiency the Dusk is impossible to beat.

Going up to the next armors (archon, loricated, etc) will always be a reduction in this efficiency.
However... certain armors look terribly goofy on some characters.

I've never noticed the FRW penalty for the most part. I don't play characters that need to run away from stuff (Bowazons) and it's not terribly hard to counter the penalty with some speedy boots.

As far as higher strength requirements... Don't be a wimp. Be strong. Stat some strength.;)

Keep in mind, I only play pvm.
 
Re: Flawed Game Mechanics

It depends what else you are wearing, really. No reason not to wear an archon (or even sacred) if you are using a eBotD thunder maul.
 
Re: Flawed Game Mechanics

the sound of metal armor dropping to ground is much more satisfying than a clothed/leather armor. "Dang". ~



yea. they should like make heavy armor.. well more heavy in defense. or make leather armor . well more leathery.
 
Re: Flawed Game Mechanics

aishilee said:
the sound of metal armor dropping to ground is much more satisfying than a clothed/leather armor. "Dang". ~



yea. they should like make heavy armor.. well more heavy in defense. or make leather armor . well more leathery.
Click to expand...

What would medium armor be like?:hide:


 
Re: Flawed Game Mechanics

one place or build that would benefit from slower run/walk would be a WW barb. They attack aoe at a fixed rate so the slower walk will potentially increase the number of hits you can Land before your out of range. It's really noticeable on the non pure classes, i.e my berzerk barb has 1 point ww, and if I want to leach I'll hit walk before I start ww'ing.

I seem to recall this coming up with bvb ww's too.

the higher defense lower armor's are handy lld. Ive got a cubed 1005 defense "peace ornate" for defense oriented level 29 llds

Beyond that there is little use for the heavier for elite armor outside looks and availability of what a player has on hand.

still Looking for a Jewelers Sacred Armor of Amicea or "of the whale" for my titan.

I think the heavier elites ought to have more defense to make then more appealing.
 
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