+Dex vs +life equipment for maxblock necs

[curby]

+Dex vs +life equipment for maxblock necs

Here's my informal analysis, which spawned form a debate about the usefulness of the Dex bonus of Ravenfrost. Let's say my nec is maxing block but also wants as much life as possible (not too unreasonable I hope).

Let's say I'm settling on a +3 Summoning Amulet, because for some reason I want to maximize that skill tree at all costs. What suffixes I could get with my Golemlord's prefix? Let's say I had 30 stats free, 30 stats would max my block, and I've got a choice of any magic suffix for the ammy.

Golemlord's Amulet of Nirvana

+30 Dex from Ammy, max block
+30 Vit from Stats, +60 life

Golemlord's Amulet of The Whale

+100 life from the Ammy, +100 life
+30 Dex from Stats, max block

The example is staged, but the principle is valid in the general case: since Necros get so little HP per stat, and since item mods are more likely to give a lot of life than a lot of dex, it makes more sense to use stats on dex than on life, given an otherwise equal choice.

Example 2: Ravenfrost. Sure +20 Dex looks wonderful, but it saves you 20 stats that you now put into Vit, giving you 40 life. This hypothetical maxblock necro would likely find a ring with more than +40 life, and dump the 20 stats into dex. As with the amulet example, same benefit to blocking, but more life in the end when using stats for Dex. Again, since stats give so little HP to Necs, sink stats into Dex when necessary and make up for the life from your equipment if possible.

Example 3 because I can't stop beating this dead horse: Small charms. +2 Dex frees up 2 stat points for vit. +20 life frees up 10 stat points for dex. Once again, go with +life on items, and pump Dex using your stats if you are going for max block.

Make sense? Am I insane? Please comment. =)

--Curby

 

[Yokomohoyo]

what kind of necro are you? are you a bone, summoner, poisoner or a hybrid... a little more info will help us help you.

 

[curby]

I think you misinterpreted my intent. I'm not exactly asking for help with equipment choices, but am presenting an argument that given the choice, a max-block nec should prefer a +life mod over a +dex mod. I'm very interested in hearing reactions to this, however. =)

--Curby

 

[Yokomohoyo]

ah but then again the question arises... what type of necro are you? because if your a summoner theirs really no need for blocking but a bonner or a nox (ultima online refrence) poison ranger might want to go vita wile a meleemancer might want to go block

 

[Chromeus]

i think the main issue here is not what build he is aiming for... but the point that for max block necros, +life equip is better then +stat

 

[Ce Olba]

i think the main issue here is not what build he is aiming for... but the point that for max block necros, +life equip is better then +stat

Yes. Also, there's no Battle Orders taken into account. It can pretty much double the amount of life you gain from +life.

 

[BlastDuke]

Yes. Also, there's no Battle Orders taken into account. It can pretty much double the amount of life you gain from +life.

Even more than that:
My necro (summoner) has currently 1315 life with items (366 vitality).
After lv54 BO (+194% life/mana) (my 2nd account barb) life goes up to 3391.
After an additional lv34 oak sage (+195% life) (my 3rd account druid) life goes up to 5477.
Makes HC a little bit safer :smiley:

btw: the druid is not perfect yet (no anni, ...) oak sage could be even higher.

 

[BlastDuke]

Example 3 because I can't stop beating this dead horse: Small charms. +2 Dex frees up 2 stat points for vit. +20 life frees up 10 stat points for dex. Once again, go with +life on items, and pump Dex using your stats if you are going for max block.

Make sense? Am I insane? Please comment. =)

--Curby

This is very important info, Curby!
Everybody should also note that +vitality on items is weaker than +life on items because +life on items gets boosted by BO but +Vitality on items gets NOT boosted by BO.

btw, my summoner is wearing a crafted ammy with:
+2 necro
+60 life (perfect rare/crafted ammy mod!)
+18 mana
+7%fcr
+7% mana reg
magic damage reduced by 3
-50% poison strength

 

[curby]

At last, discussion! :grin:

Chromeus: Exactly

Yokomohoyo: I'm actually a summoner who wants max block. Sometimes when teleporting around I get in trouble with melee attacks, and block is very helpful as I try to walk/tp away (even with a horde of skellies and revives I still get hit). Also, spearcats and the like often miss my skellies and hit me, and my Dim Vision range isn't high enough to stop them. In hell, curses last for only a short time anyway, and there can be many groups around Shenk, making it rather dangerous.

I keep hearing that Summoners shouldn't get hit by physical attacks, and it sounds really nice, but from my own experiences it is overly optimistic. I'll admit that i'm a bad/careless player, and that an elite necro might not need to think so defensively. In the end I have to build my necro around my play style, hence the block (and bone armor, even).

Everybody should also note that +vitality on items is weaker than +life on items because +life on items gets boosted by BO but +Vitality on items gets NOT boosted by BO.

Interesting, can anyone confirm/deny this? Alternately where did you find this, BlastDuke?

--Curby

 

[BlastDuke]

Interesting, can anyone confirm/deny this? Alternately where did you find this, BlastDuke?

I have no specific source for this, I just learned to play the game with this "feature".
I have just tested it again:
1) with my Thundergod belt: +20 vit = +40 life on necro: 1255 life, 3214 after BO.
2) putting off Thundergod and adding with 4 small charms with 40 life: 1255 life, 3292 life after BO

So it is confirmed: +life on items gets boosted by BO while +vitality on items gets NOT boosted by BO.

Maybe most people are not aware of this because they use not a very high BO level (CTA) where the +% to life is rather small.
Since my BO barb has BO level 54 (+194%) the difference (78 life in above example) is much bigger

 

[Yokomohoyo]

I keep hearing that Summoners shouldn't get hit by physical attacks, and it sounds really nice, but from my own experiences it is overly optimistic. I'll admit that i'm a bad/careless player, and that an elite necro might not need to think so defensively. In the end I have to build my necro around my play style, hence the block (and bone armor, even).

--Curby

Well I for one am an SPer so you can guess its true I have no anni nor torch to give me +skills but my gear is quite simple and actualy self found. Not at all uber by any standerds.

The Spirit Shroud +1 skills
Lore Helm +1 skills
BoneFlame +3 necro skills
pair of caster gloves
water walks boots
Arm of King Leoric +2 summoning skills +3 SM +3 RS +2 RM
2 nagels
Mara's Kaleidoscope +2 skills
goldwrap
2 summonning GC +2
total +skills= 11 to summoning general, +9 to all skills, +14SM, +14RS, +13RM and I can be proud that I have finished baal off in hell HC with such a crappy character...

Anyways I whent the vita route due to the knowladge that if I get hit with what counts (spells) blocking will do me verry little good since a lighting bolt will fry me regardless of max block. Now for areas that I know that are packed with melees I just take my time walking towards them with DV, Decreptify and Attact hotkeyed and ready for thier targets.

 

[Chromeus]

what Curby is trying to tell you Yokomohoyo, is that he agrees with you that life is a very important statistic.

however, if you need more life on a necromancer, aim for +life items instead of +vita. 10 points in vita adds only 21 life (correct me if im wrong), crappy huh? however if you spent the points in say strength, and replaced the piece of equip that gave you the needed strength with one that adds more life, you will stand to gain more from this switch.

this actually applies to all characters with crappy vita:life stat point ratio, not just necros.

cheers,
Chrome

 

[curby]

Yeah, what Chromeus said. =)

This thread was supposed to discuss the relative effects of +life and +dex mods for someone who's already going for max block.

The question of whether to go for max block is different, and starts with having a Homunculus (Stormshield or Trang wing might work but in general Necro shields have really bad blocking). I get the feeling that the max block / max vita name is biased, and gives the impression that going for max block leaves you with 200 life. My CL90 nec has nearly 1k life before BO with max block, so it's certainly possible to reach a happy medium. Going for max vit drops blocking to ~6% of max, but going for max blocking drops your life to maybe 70-80% of max. I gladly pay that price for 15x the block rate.

Yokomohoyo: Man, that gear isn't at all embarrassing. I'm on the ladder and I don't have Maras or multiple Nec GCs yet! =)

--Curby

 

[Yokomohoyo]

Yokomohoyo: Man, that gear isn't at all embarrassing. I'm on the ladder and I don't have Maras or multiple Nec GCs yet! =)

Well the Maras just dumb luck when it poped out but the GC's where due to many and I mean many pgem rerolls and boy did I ever get angry when I had gotten a +1 light skills and decided to try to reroll it to test my luck and got a +vita... anyways I'm still tring to roll up some bone gc's for my bonemancer that I'll make later this month... later guys