Contemplating a Bowazon

[Arkardo]

Contemplating a Bowazon

So yeah, I'm thinking of making my very first Bowazon ever. She's just for fun and will be pretty standard, but maybe, if I like her, I'll make her a Pit runner.

I recently found this nice bow (shown on a level 94 character) and decided to make it my main weapon.

I had checked the IAS table for Amazons and their Grand Matron Bows:
56% -> 10 frames
89% -> 9 frames
147% -> 8 frames

I figured I'd shoot for the 89% brakepoint, because that should be very much doable with the gear I have in mind. That, and the 147% one doesn't seem reasonable to me, unless I use the Peace runeword.

Equipment:
Weapon: Carrion Quarrel [Shael] (total of 40% IAS)
Armor: Duress/Treachery/Peace
Helm: Andarial's Visage [IAS jewel] (35% IAS, 70% poison resist & max +10)
Belt: Razortail (33% pierce)
Gloves: 1.07 Laying of Hands (50% fire absorb, 450% damage vs. demons)
Boots: Gorerider (crushing blow)
Amulet: Atma's Scarab (Amp Damage, 75% poison resist)
Rings: Ravenfrosts (40% cold absorb, +40 dexterity)

Mercenary: probably a Might one... haven't given it that much thought yet.

Skills: pretty basic:
20 Strafe
20 Guided Arrow
1 D/A/E
1 Penetrate/Critical Strike
? Pierce (Enough to get to 100% with Razortail and +skills)
20 Magic Arrow (for PI's)
Haven't considered the rest yet... I was thinking about my gear first.

See, the nice thing about this setup is that I have 50% fire absorb, 40% cold absorb and 145% poison resist with a max of 85%. That means that I can largely forego on resists, except for lighting resist, which I'll probably use charms for.

So, here's where the questions come in:

• What kind of armor would you recommend to use? I was thinking Duress, just for the crushing blow. But the Fade, Venom and IAS from Treachery is kinda hard to pass up.
• Is the lack of mana leach a big issue? If so, what should I do about it?
• I expect to get over 1500 attack rating from my gear. Will this be enough to go through Hell comfortably? If so, should I pump Penetrate to solve this, or change my gear setup?
• Anything else you'd change? :scratchchin:

Well, thanks for reading all that! I hope you'll share your insights with me... :wave:

 

[Zarfen]

Re: Contemplating a Bowazon

Hi there.

My personal thoughs:
First off: Cool bow, it's nice to see some doable rare bows once in a while.

1. I'd take treachery over duress on a bowazon any day. The crushing blow gets really nerfed and as you already said, the fade/ias(and also the venom) is very hard to pass on unless you are sporting really high end gear. The cold resist isn't useless either. If you really, really don't need the iad, neither the ctc's, duress does come with some nice offensive mods, so by all means, it's a matter of taste.

2. Get a ring or something with mana leech, usually even 1% is enough since strafe isn't THAT costly, and each and every hitting arrow leaches back separately.

3. I'm not good with numbers, but I'd rearrange your skillpoints somewhat (see below) and make sure you put enough into penentrate as you need to get a nice hit%.

4. Remember this is my personal opinions, but I do have some bowazon experience, and I've read most guides about them on these forums over and over
Ditch gore riders, CB is not the way to go on a bowazon. I suggest war travelers instead. The +damage mod works nicely with bowazons.
There's no need for 20 hard points in GA for pvm purposes, iirc it adds 5% ed per level, which isn't really worth it for pvm, considering the added mana cost and the damage added. You could also just try to get magic arrow to slvl 13 after +skills, since that's the level 100% is converted to magic damage, the +1/level extra damage does little, really.(not to mention, if you use atmas, amp + liughtning dmg from your bow to trigger it should not force you to use MA that much in the first place, as amp can break alot of PI's)

So, with all tose saved points, what should you get? Imo, a sturdy valk is never wrong, and she doesn't have to cost much either, just get her to slvl 17 after +skills and she's a great tank. As stated earlier, penentrate is a real treat, I tend to max it just to make sure I hit as often as I can.

Critical strike is nice, but it doesn't deserve 20 hard points due to it's diminishing returns, I'm not sure if just 1 pt is enough, it depends on how many +skills from gear you'll have, but try to get it to a level where the diminishing returns is just about to kick in (cant remember when atm :/)

Alot of people like to put 1 point in Frozen arrow, just to freeze crowds. It's really helpful, but I've tried it and I tend to not use it that much. But it's only 3 points, and it does really come in handy at times.

If you still have left over points, putting some more in D/A/E (depending on when you experience you get most hits from, melee, while attacking at range, or while running) helps, as does points in decoy, it's a very, very useful spell, mainly to draw monster attention/fire, and it also boosts valk hp.

This is all I can think of as of now. Mind that I haven't taken ias bp's in account, but with treachery, you'll get there without a problem, it can even ease up a slot where you can put something else, maybe a different socket for your helm/bow.

Hope I could help at least a little.

Cheerio

 

[Jcakes1]

Re: Contemplating a Bowazon

A quick note is that strafe has a slightly different breakpoints to normal attack. I have looked up the tables for you (in the amazon stickies) and the results are as follows:
0% - 7/4/8
5% - 7/4/7
15% - 6/3/6
30% - 5/3/6 <- I would aim for this breakpoint or higher.
50% - 5/3/5
80% - 5/3/4

The first number is the number of frames for the first arrow to be shot, the next number is the number of frames for the next 9 arrows in the cycle to be shot and the last frame is the recovery time between each strafe cycle. What this means is that you should aim for an x/3/x frame strafe and any additional speed is just icing on the cake.

 

[VoX Dei]

Re: Contemplating a Bowazon

Zarfen and JCakes pretty much got your questions well covered.

Here my 2 cents as well. I'll try to change your initial setup as little as possible.

Equipment:
Weapon: Carrion Quarrel [ed% jewel; preferably ruby jewel of carnage] (total of 20% IAS)
Armor: Treachery (+45% ias)
Helm: Giant Skull (Knockback <= must have; gets more important with low ed% bows; socket with ed%, +max dmg, or resists you find lacking)
Belt: Razortail (33% pierce)
Gloves: 1.07 Laying of Hands (50% fire absorb, 450% damage vs. demons) <= WOW!
Boots: War Traveler
Amulet: Cat's Eye (20% ias, 30% frw, +25 dex => 9/3 strafe)
Ring 1: Ravenfrost (20% cold absorb, +20 dexterity)
Ring 2: Rare/Crafted (must have dual leech; any extras are gravy)

Switch:
Harmony (for vigor aura)

Backpack:
Demonlimb (for the free AR boost)

Inventory:
Hone Sundan (3*amn) => Jabbing with this high CB% wep will make short work of any boss. Preferably it will be ethereal. Upgrade it if/when possible, but watch out for the level req increase (clvl 69).

Mercenary: Might using Reaper's for the nice ctc decrepify.

Skills: pretty basic:
BOW SKILLS
20 Strafe
1 Guided Arrow (pre-req only)
20 Magic Arrow (for PI's => YES)
2 other pre-reqs

PASSIVE & MAGIC:
1 all
~10 Penetrate (may need more, may need less; it will depend alot on how much dex you achieve and your clvl vs. mlvl; add here as you see fit taking the former variables into consideration)
16 Critical Strike (65% chance of 2*damage) additional points are wasteful due to dimininishing returns
8-9 Pierce (98-100% with Razortail and +skills)
8 or 17 Valk after +skills (at those levels her wep is upgraded to excep/elite)
1+ decoy (this will save your life MANY times and boost your valk's life).

JAV & SPEAR:
1 Jab (to take down bosses with Hone sundan)

Note: Last points go into maxing MA and to enhance Decoy.


Alternative setup:

Bow: socketed with any ed% + ias jewel (9/3 strafe)
Amulet: Atma's Scarab (Amp Damage, 75% poison resist)

Merc: Hone Sundan (CB for bosses)

Skills:
0 in Jab (Merc is the boss killer)

This is ofc something I would do. This is your char, do as you wish.

 

[Arkardo]

Re: Contemplating a Bowazon

Hey guys,

Cheers for the replies. Sorry I didn't reply earlier...

The crushing blow gets really nerfed and as you already said, the fade/ias(and also the venom) is very hard to pass on unless you are sporting really high end gear. The cold resist isn't useless either. If you really, really don't need the iad, neither the ctc's, duress does come with some nice offensive mods, so by all means, it's a matter of taste.

Will do! I don't have any experience with ranged builds whatsoever, and I'm addicted to crushing blow of melee builds, so I hoped it would have been more useful, even when nerfed.
I just found out I had forgotten about knockback, so I'll probably socket my bow with a Nef or a knockback jewel (I have to look up whether those even exist :scratchchin.

2. Get a ring or something with mana leech, usually even 1% is enough since strafe isn't THAT costly, and each and every hitting arrow leaches back separately.

I had hoped to come by without mana leech, but I guess I can't. :wink:

3. I'm not good with numbers, but I'd rearrange your skillpoints somewhat (see below) and make sure you put enough into penentrate as you need to get a nice hit%.

4. Remember this is my personal opinions, but I do have some bowazon experience, and I've read most guides about them on these forums over and over
Ditch gore riders, CB is not the way to go on a bowazon. I suggest war travelers instead. The +damage mod works nicely with bowazons.

Ah, yes! The mini Grief effect. Great suggestion!

There's no need for 20 hard points in GA for pvm purposes, iirc it adds 5% ed per level, which isn't really worth it for pvm, considering the added mana cost and the damage added. You could also just try to get magic arrow to slvl 13 after +skills, since that's the level 100% is converted to magic damage, the +1/level extra damage does little, really.(not to mention, if you use atmas, amp + liughtning dmg from your bow to trigger it should not force you to use MA that much in the first place, as amp can break alot of PI's)

So, with all tose saved points, what should you get? Imo, a sturdy valk is never wrong, and she doesn't have to cost much either, just get her to slvl 17 after +skills and she's a great tank. As stated earlier, penentrate is a real treat, I tend to max it just to make sure I hit as often as I can.

Critical strike is nice, but it doesn't deserve 20 hard points due to it's diminishing returns, I'm not sure if just 1 pt is enough, it depends on how many +skills from gear you'll have, but try to get it to a level where the diminishing returns is just about to kick in (cant remember when atm :/)

Alot of people like to put 1 point in Frozen arrow, just to freeze crowds. It's really helpful, but I've tried it and I tend to not use it that much. But it's only 3 points, and it does really come in handy at times.

If you still have left over points, putting some more in D/A/E (depending on when you experience you get most hits from, melee, while attacking at range, or while running) helps, as does points in decoy, it's a very, very useful spell, mainly to draw monster attention/fire, and it also boosts valk hp.

This is all I can think of as of now. Mind that I haven't taken ias bp's in account, but with treachery, you'll get there without a problem, it can even ease up a slot where you can put something else, maybe a different socket for your helm/bow.

Hope I could help at least a little.

Cheerio

Thanks a lot, man! :thumbup:

A quick note is that strafe has a slightly different breakpoints to normal attack. I have looked up the tables for you (in the amazon stickies) and the results are as follows:
0% - 7/4/8
5% - 7/4/7
15% - 6/3/6
30% - 5/3/6 <- I would aim for this breakpoint or higher.
50% - 5/3/5
80% - 5/3/4

The first number is the number of frames for the first arrow to be shot, the next number is the number of frames for the next 9 arrows in the cycle to be shot and the last frame is the recovery time between each strafe cycle. What this means is that you should aim for an x/3/x frame strafe and any additional speed is just icing on the cake.

Thanks for looking that up for me... I completely forgot about that. I'm convinced to go with Treachery, so I'll hit at least the 50% breakpoint (bow + Treachery = 65% IAS)

Thanks for your input, man! :thumbsup:

Zarfen and JCakes pretty much got your questions well covered.

Here my 2 cents as well. I'll try to change your initial setup as little as possible.

Equipment:
Weapon: Carrion Quarrel [ed% jewel; preferably ruby jewel of carnage] (total of 20% IAS) Good suggestion, though I'm probably stuck with Andariel's Visage...
Armor: Treachery (+45% ias)
Helm: Giant Skull (Knockback <= must have; gets more important with low ed% bows; socket with ed%, +max dmg, or resists you find lacking) ... because I don't have a Giant Skull. I like the idea though. Maybe for a future Bowazon.
Belt: Razortail (33% pierce)
Gloves: 1.07 Laying of Hands (50% fire absorb, 450% damage vs. demons) <= WOW! ^^
Boots: War Traveler
Amulet: Cat's Eye (20% ias, 30% frw, +25 dex => 9/3 strafe) Good suggestion as well. I'll see if my final setup benefits from an extra 20% IAS. If it does, I'll use a Cat's Eye. If it doesn't, I think I'll stick with Atma's Scarab.
Ring 1: Ravenfrost (20% cold absorb, +20 dexterity)
Ring 2: Rare/Crafted (must have dual leech; any extras are gravy)

Switch:
Harmony (for vigor aura)

Backpack:
Demonlimb (for the free AR boost)

Harmony and Demon Limb are, again, good suggestions.

Inventory:
Hone Sundan (3*amn) => Jabbing with this high CB% wep will make short work of any boss. Preferably it will be ethereal. Upgrade it if/when possible, but watch out for the level req increase (clvl 69).

I have one that's 1% ED off from perfect... not ethereal though. I may use one, but I think I'll let my mercenary do the dirty work for me, like you suggest further down.

Mercenary: Might using Reaper's for the nice ctc decrepify.

I think I'll use this if I use the Cat's Eye, Obedience otherwise.

Skills: pretty basic:
BOW SKILLS
20 Strafe
1 Guided Arrow (pre-req only)
20 Magic Arrow (for PI's => YES)
2 other pre-reqs

What about Multishot? Or does Strafe outperform it in most situations?

PASSIVE & MAGIC:
1 all
~10 Penetrate (may need more, may need less; it will depend alot on how much dex you achieve and your clvl vs. mlvl; add here as you see fit taking the former variables into consideration)
16 Critical Strike (65% chance of 2*damage) additional points are wasteful due to dimininishing returns
8-9 Pierce (98-100% with Razortail and +skills)
8 or 17 Valk after +skills (at those levels her wep is upgraded to excep/elite)
1+ decoy (this will save your life MANY times and boost your valk's life).

JAV & SPEAR:
1 Jab (to take down bosses with Hone sundan)

Note: Last points go into maxing MA and to enhance Decoy.


Alternative setup:

Bow: socketed with any ed% + ias jewel (9/3 strafe)
Amulet: Atma's Scarab (Amp Damage, 75% poison resist)

Merc: Hone Sundan (CB for bosses)

Skills:
0 in Jab (Merc is the boss killer)

This is ofc something I would do. This is your char, do as you wish.

Thanks for your suggestions. These will surely help me! :nod:

Well, I guess I have some more figuring out to do... I really like how Bowazons don't have one clear best way to do things!

 

[Jcakes1]

Re: Contemplating a Bowazon

What about Multishot? Or does Strafe outperform it in most situations?

careful, you'll start up a violent strafe vs multi debate

I personally like both the attacks and have made pure strafers and pure multi-shotters. If this is your first zon I would probably put ~7-10 hard points in multi (to taste) and max strafe and you can see which you prefer. They do work quite well together, as there are certain areas where multi is greater than strafe and vice versa.

The only thing to be careful of if you hybridize multi and strafe is the different break points they require (multi works on the normal attack bp you listed and strafe works on the ones that i listed)

hope this helps.

Edit: Another suggestion if you are looking for knockback you could always craft some knockback golves, although you may be better off with a nef in the bow and LoH's. Also for MS only the middle two arrows have ctc effects (knockback etc.) while the rest just carry damage (and ll/ml iirc)