BAC mana problems in classic

[Unholy_VI]

BAC mana problems in classic

OK so far from the experiences I've had

and seeing what some other players are going through in classic on hardcore over there it looks like the biggest issue we are having by far is mana. Specifically leeching it for mana intensive builds.

There are the obvious ways to get a little extra mana (saphires, weapon with leech or + mana/kill, jewelry, meditation, redemption, + mana on equipment, warmth)

There are a few that take a little research. And thats what I've done.

Here is a list of all the uniques and sets that give either a large chunk to total mana, decent amount of % mana regen, % damage to mana, and Mana leech.

Much of this you probobly knew but here is the list so you can know what to be on the lookout for:

Unique Armor:

Lenymo, Lvl 7, +15 mana, 30% mana regen
Night smoke, Lvl 20, +20 mana, +50% damage to mana

Silks of the Victor, Lvl 28, 5% mana leech
Heavenly Garb, Lvl 29, +15 energy, +25% mana regen

Gorefoot Lvl 9, 3% mana leech

hand of Broc Lvl 5, 3% mana leech, +20 mana
Magefist Lvl 23, +25% mana regen
Frostburn Lvl 29, +40% mana

Howltusk Lvl 25, 35% damage to mana

Wall of the Eyeless Lvl 20, +5 mana/kill, 3% mana leech

SoJ Lvl 29, +25% to mana
Manald heal Lvl 15 (!), +4%-7% mana leech

Wepons:

Deathspade Lvl 9 (!), +4 mana/kill
Skull splitter Lvl 21, +20% mana regen
Chieftain Lvl 19, +6 mana/kill
Brainhew Lvl 25, 10%-13% mana leech

Pluckeye Lvl 7, 3% mana leech :lol:
Blastbark Lvl 28, 3% mana leech

Spectral Shard Lvl 25, +50 mana

General's Tan do li ga Lvl 21, %5 mana leech

soul harvest Lvl 19, 10% mana leech
Grim Reaper Lvl 29, 5% mana leech

Serpent lord Lvl 9, 100& mana leech(!!!)
spire of lazurus Lvl 18, +15 energy, +43% mana regen

skewer of krintz Lvl 10, 7% mana leech
Hellplague Lvl 22, 5% mana leech
Soulflay Lvl 19, 4%-10% mana leech
ripsaw Lvl 26, 6% mana Leech
Shadow Fang Lvl 9, 9% mana steal

Grave spine Lvl 20, 5% mana steal, +25-50 mana
Ume's lament Lvl 28, +40 mana

Sets/partial sets:

Angelic 3 items +50 mana

Arcanas Staff + 1 item 50 mana, any 2 items 25 mana, full set 25 mana and 5% mana steal

cathans Staff + 1 item 50 mana, full set 20 mana

clegs full set = 6% mana steal.

infernal cap = 20% damage to mana, full set = 6% mana steal

Milabregas Full set 10% mana steal

Tancreds full set 5% mana steal

A few things that stick out....

Imagine WoE and deathspade on your sorc or hammerdin (+9 mana per kill!) even just deathspade from level 9 is very nice for +4 mana/kill.

For Javazons who IMO are hurt the most by the mana issues in classic (Can do a WoE at level 20 but until then not much that helps a lot...

2 words... manald heal. Hand of broc and gorefoot if you can get them sure but for the level, manalds are tough to beat for Mana leech. Trade whatever you have to for this. I would suggest obtaining one or two before even starting a java.

the staff serpent lord has a sexy 100% mana leech bt who in their right mind melees with a low damage staff?? (ok ok I used it on a char in LoD once but I'm not proud of it!)

Once again cleg's set comes in strong especially if we happen to have a twitch to help the bad blocking become reasonable. Deadly strike crushing blow, + to max damage per level and 6% mana leech. I can see this being really effective on say a frost zealot since on things that are cold immune/highly resistant he is still getting in crushing blow and DS.

Among most of the other stuff it seems to me like we are looking at either 2 high lvl req, too low damage, or some other problem (like the weapon being 2 handed) to make much use of it to help much while trying to get started.

I hope this can be useful in planning for the mana needs of any classic chars you start in our little club. :flip:

 

[MoUsE_WiZ]

Mana regen is not even worth considering...characters all fill the blue bulb up in 3 minutes, so with 100% mana regen that's like 25 extra mana every 1:30 on a lower level melee build with 50 mana (being generous) so that's less than 1 mana extra every 3 seconds with 100% regen, which is a very high number to shoot for...
As for Deathspade, I've used it in LoD for starting casters before moving on to TirTirTirTirTirTir weapons, it works rather well, but unfortunately doesn't help your javazon any, and she's already hurting from not having magical javs. I'd say Nightsmoke is most likely your best bet there, throw in angelic ammy with its 20% and you should be able hold you fine until WoE.

Just curious why you didn't include the 20% dmg to mana on angelic ammy or the 40% mana regen on civerbs ammy/20% on Arcanna's ammy.

 

[viamede]

Yup Mana is a pain for the Java. Using cs/lf leeches next to nothing of course even though I am loaded with mana leech items. Stinger suggested switching to jab now and again to leech up your bulb but I rarely remember to try. Have just used two socket helm with highest level saphires I can use/have plus two slots for super mana potions. Early on I would fill a row or two of inventory as well just to keep from TPing to town as often. Then again you have to repair your spears fairly often anyway so it's easy to do both. Only now in NM do I find about as much as I need killing. Manalds seem to drop fairly often however....

 

[Unholy_VI]

Mana regen is not even worth considering...characters all fill the blue bulb up in 3 minutes, so with 100% mana regen that's like 25 extra mana every 1:30 on a lower level melee build with 50 mana (being generous) so that's less than 1 mana extra every 3 seconds with 100% regen, which is a very high number to shoot for...
As for Deathspade, I've used it in LoD for starting casters before moving on to TirTirTirTirTirTir weapons, it works rather well, but unfortunately doesn't help your javazon any, and she's already hurting from not having magical javs. I'd say Nightsmoke is most likely your best bet there, throw in angelic ammy with its 20% and you should be able hold you fine until WoE.

Just curious why you didn't include the 20% dmg to mana on angelic ammy or the 40% mana regen on civerbs ammy/20% on Arcanna's ammy.

Mana regen does make a big difference when you are using skills that dont cost all that much mana to begin with. If you are using jab you'll see the effect immediately.

without it once your bulb is empty its empty seem like forever then you get one jab then have to wait or use mana pots and you prolly using an 8 slot belt....

As to why not mention the damage to mana on angelics and civerbs. sorry its late and I must have missed it. If you see anything else please post it. :yawn:

 

[STINGER]

I cure most my mana issues with a 3 sock 3 saph helm.

it gives a Hammerdin more mana than he needs if he is boed and plenty when he is solo.

Gives a Necro all he needs and if he uses revives, or a lot of Bone skills he will need to drink a bit. Add frosties and he is pretty set.

Sorc, Frosties and helm and you can get about 5-600 pretty easy. You can also go with a Ruby helm and invest in Energy, both are effective. i personally use Angelics on my sorc at 82. It is actually terrible defense so teleporting thru big hitters isnt fun.

My Java is using WoE, eventually I hope to give her Irthras set and if i am lucky the jewelry that will finish the resists so I can keep WoE, or i will go with REZ shield, get the dex for Phoons and load up the leech and hope for a couple mana perkill on my rings. Basically no matter how I build this Java she will drink a lot of pots. Herding is simply a must with a Java, spaming javs just wont cut it as you wont kill squat and drink a ton and by a lot of sticks.

Basic Classic Java Techniques:

Buy a ton of sticks, 3-4 stacks in inventory.
1-2 rows of blues in belt, 8-16 blues in inventory, leave you enuff room to pick up a big item just like you do in regards to charms in xpac.
If you use Spears Jab isnt all that effective in late NM and Hell for leech, but Phoons are double damage.
Herd.......God i cant stress this as it is so important to efficent killing. If oyu only have 2 mana/kill on two rings, and say 12% ML and do 16-60 (Phoons) then you MUST pierce several times to leech and to produce enuff bolts to kill enuff thiings to make your 2/kill help and the only way is to herd up packs.

I did NM CS with Billy last night and he can attest to my killing techniques, it is simply running thru and herding up, getting a tight pack and devistate them. This same technique is also very effective for Sorcs, Hammerdins, Necros.


No matter what you do in Classic you will drink pots.....dont try and avoid it, dont pump enrgy or warmth to stop it just drink the damn things, go a bit slower and pick them up and TP to town when you need more!!! When you are fortunate to have BO you ill have less issues but you will still drink. Now if ya want a 600 base life sorc then get you about 150 Energy, pump up a bit of Warmth and you might not need to drink much.........but you will still drink without BO!!! Stones are about the only sure for mana and they jsut dont drop a lot.


i have heard of sorcs built specifically for solo running that are spark my couriosity but I have never tried them.

Max Orb
small Mastery
High Warmth
High teleport
High static
Shiver Investment

i have no specifics on point allocation.

The whole build hinges on staticing the piss out of everything a ton and finishing it with your low end Orb. The high teleport lowers mana costs, Warmth pumps regen, and these sorcs usually have a good investment in Energy also. it is basically a Meph runner. If you stock up on Mana to damage like Nightsmoke and Angeleics for 70% you can teleport thru anything with good cast rate.

Problem here is Asia......i get a "double tele" thing if i hold down the button to teleport but if i click each teleport i do fine. Now this is with only 50% FCR and i havent tried higher but intend to soon.


ya ya ya Stinger is rambling again.............

 

[Palm]

I own a lvl 74 classic javazon and lets just say you have to drink alot of pots. In hell due to resists you cant really make alot of equip concessions to get alot of + mana/kill, regen, etc. Ml is useless... This buid is still fun but it would be alot more fun if you had someway to make up for mana loss without having to drink all the time.

For other chars 3 saphire helm + frosties is a good option for many builds though it might be overkill in some cases. Good at low lvls anyway.

 

[viamede]

Yes I will have to learn to herd more.....basically been switching between cs for singles (bosses) and small groups and lf for large (a much better killer). Someone gave me a Duskdeep last night so I tried switching out my 2 socket flawless saph helm this AM (lose 66 or so mana iirc) added in the Hand of Broc for the MF gloves (add 20 mana). Geez mana dropped just too fast. Resists are pretty much all maxed though with 3 PDTS but looks like I'll have to go back to the saph helm for now.

A few other questions (if you don't mind)...1. how does one max resists in hell or is it basically impossible in Classic? and 2. Is there any point in running act bosses after (a) normal or (b) nightmare. Bosses in LOD are generally run for high uniques or sets. Givn that there is very little in that category that normal Meph and Diablo cannot drop why ever run bosses after norm? Is it to get better rares? If so who is best to run and what level?

BTW tried leaching with jab and I couldn't leach a dang thing off those skellies in the A2 sewers.....
took me a sec to remember why

Anyway hoping to crack the top 100 on the Zon Asia "ladder" shortly ....at level 40 :lol:

 

[Palm]

1. how does one max resists in hell or is it basically impossible in Classic?

Its not too hard. First get a tower shield or other 3 socket shield and stick 3 dimonds in it. Second get 1 of each gem, perfect grade, and cube it with a magic amulet and you get a prismatic amulet which is 16-25 all res with a chance at a second mod like +life. Thats just two pieces of equip that can give up to 82 all res. Add res on boots/rings/belt, etc and you're set. My java just doesn't have them all maxed because I use twitch (which is great for java) and lots of +mana, etc but they're pretty high up there.

2. Is there any point in running act bosses after (a) normal or (b) nightmare.

Bosses can drop lots of useful uniques, even normal ones. NM meph is that first that can drop soj I believe. Useful uniques inclued, shard, gull, frosties, magefist, goldskin, darkglow, soj, etc. All can be droped in NM. Hell is just good for those tasty rares.

 

[viamede]

Thanks Palm. I have the 3 PDTS already but I forgot about the prismatic recipe, course that means I'd have to give up my plus one to all skills ammy which would be most sad.

 

[STINGER]

Thanks Palm. I have the 3 PDTS already but I forgot about the prismatic recipe, course that means I'd have to give up my plus one to all skills ammy which would be most sad.

The key to resists all rolls back to gambling!!!

Possibilities:

3 resist boots 40% in all (3) is possible and still get speed and more. These however are very rare but (2) rez 25+ is very possible.

3 rez Belt with FHR, life...etc same percentages are possible

Glooves i beleive can be (2) rez, I dont recall seeing a (3) but I gamble glooves a lot less than boots and belts as I tend to use Sigs, Magis, Frosties on most builds, or some dual leech rez for a WW Barb.

Armors can be (3) rez but gambling them isnt smart as you can only get Normal ones and they are like gambling Circlets in costs or more. Thuse why on casters I imbue armors, save those imbues and collect skulls and roll those armors.

Once you get in late Nm and hell just pick up all ammys and check em. You can also use the (3) rings for (1) ammys or (3) ammy for (1) ring cubing.


As for boss running...

Hell bosses are for the chance for big uniques......Diablo for +2 ammys as he is the only one who can drop them.

Stick to NM for essentials, or even Norm. Norm diablo and Meph can drop most essentials and NM D and Meph are a good combo of usefull sets and good rares. There is really no reason to solo Hell bosses until you have established yourself strong.

Flayer Jungle is a prime place to get a lot of drops......tons of little midgets flying around like banshiees trying to be the first one to slap thier face into your mighty Java!!! NM this is a good place for a Java especially if you have a WoE. WoE Is attainable from NM, I got mine from the Council. It isnt hard to gear up to use WoE in NM but in Hell it will take good gear.

I am a person who rarely MFs..(said this 100 times if not more) I spend the major portion of my time geared up to lvl with whatever MF I can have and still have my resists and then I just do and kill a bunch of crap and ID the stuff. I sell everything of worth and gamble and this practice has always worked for me. Only time I really MF is for Specifics, like right now I would like to get some Irthras so i run NM Meph and Council and Diablo when nothing is goinc on like CS.

Since i personally hate cowing, but do it to help others I always kill the King so i am not a Virgin and then I kill him every run as he can produce well also. I always let my Java be my Portal opener and everything else is a killer so If we need an opener I have one and if not I am killing the King. Now in 1.09 the King mad me rich in Hell but Hell cows are almsot pointless now. So far the King in Norm and NM hasnt given me much but he has given me a few things.

BTW.....ALLLLLLL HAMMERDINS should kill the King solo very early as it is just to damn easy to do it accidently.

Lvling in Act 4 NM is a good exp run and a lot of monsters......