axe/shield or duel wield??

[gmoura]

axe/shield or duel wield??

hi everyone, after a long time away, im back to playing D2 and i am planning my new WW Barbarian already!!

i just made an eBotd Zerker today! only 369% :xx: but it will have to do!

My question is:

should i use Stormshield as i normally always do or should i try and get my hands on another weapon? perhaps a grief??

i only ask becasue i have been reading alot of posts latly about WW barbs duel wielding!!
Does the advantage of DW'ing compensate for not having any block and less resists!!??

Please Enlighten Me !!!!

 

[D2Freak91776]

If you duel wield there is a more % chance to hit enemies. This is more for PvM and PvP against casters with unblockable skills[like those pesky Smiters].
DWing will give you a better chance of hitting the target. If you are against a char that does a lot of dmg through multiple attacks[Bowazons] and you cant seem to take them out before they take you out, then a shield would be useful. DWing is superior to Axe and SS since barbs are supose to be tanks with a lot of life. The only other scenario where you need a shield is against another WW barb. I've experienced this in PvP. Without a shield, your life goes down pretty fast. This is all I have to say. Good luck with your WW barb!

 

[Inuyasha]

To quote Mcm, a good WW barb will only ever need a shield against another good WW barb. Ever try dueling a zealot withotu a shield? Yep, you don't need it. What about fury wolves? Chargers? Nay, they generally get themselves stuck with the lock-lag thing, or land one hit before getting smacked up. Nope, not neccesary. Hmmmmm... what other melee builds are there really? The only thing that I find can truly be a threat to you without a shield is another good WW barb. Also, with my Dual Wielder I've been owning quite a few other WW barbs as well, even the ones with shields. Why is that? Well, some of them were from 1.09, and therefore didn't have near as much life, and probably focused on Swords as well. Others didn't have the best gear. Others still, had simply turned their stats into fubar, and the last group were people that just didn't know how to play them. So, as you see, a Dual-Wielder can do just fine if he has good gear, an experienced player, and a bit of luck. I find that you do not need a shield unless against someone truly godly.

Sure, there are a few other melee builds that are few and far apart. But in general, you won't be able to block at all 7/8ths of the time you enter a duel game, is what I've found. Bone necros are more popular than ever, smiters are about to become feared when ladder drops down again and they are all bestowed with Grief shields, Windies and Sorcs are a constant find, Trapsins, FoHers, and all manner of elemental characters are coming around. Why not take the extra life, and the extra damage, of being a dual wielder?

That just about sums it up. Thanks for listening to yet another rant.
-Daman

 

[Zangeif]

A good ww sin can beat a dual wielding ww barb too.

I would go dual wield, seems to be the choice for most barbs these days.

 

[Inuyasha]

...Interesting thought, though I've never had any problems whatsoever with a WW sin. They die in 1 WW or less, do minimal damage (except for poison, which really doesn't bother me too much anyways), and seem to do exactly what I want them to do all the time (run directly at me, get their asses handed to them. tele on to me, get their asses handed to them.)

If you happen to know a good WW sin on UsWEST NL, I'd love to fight them though. After all, I'm almost always looking for new challenges and fun duels against skilled players. Just as long as they aren't BM, of course

 

[Zangeif]

Well a ww sin has a 0% chance against a s/s barb, but they can beat a dual wielder. The barb has higher life, def, and damage, but the asn will block 60% of attacks, and do a ton of damage with OW and venom. The asn can also get in some decent mb damage if they see a good opening to start spamming it, and the shadow master can help out at times.

I win over 50% of my duels vs well equipped dual wielding ww barbs with my ww asn.

 

[eA-Zaku]

...Interesting thought, though I've never had any problems whatsoever with a WW sin. They die in 1 WW or less, do minimal damage (except for poison, which really doesn't bother me too much anyways), and seem to do exactly what I want them to do all the time (run directly at me, get their asses handed to them. tele on to me, get their asses handed to them.)

Please don't make generalized statements, especially with the lack of experienced WW sins in West NL. I'm on West LADDER and I'm owning. The advantage of having the best equipment at decent %'s is a good one to have on ladder, when you have hammerdins telling you they can't find soj's to wear. Anyways, I'm not doubting you. You probably haven't found any decent NL wwsins to duel. But when ladder expires, I'll gladly duel you. This is the problem for barbs, since they are so immensely popular and efficient, you can get a bit carried away in your assumptions or how good you think you are. As a wwsin, I own plenty of ppl, but I bet that'll change once I hit NL where everyone has equal or better equipment than me. Also, I know I can't beat certain classes. But for barbs, here's what I found:

No shield with one weapon does kill, but only because the damage is way higher. I bet you if you duel wield, let one weapon break, and try to duel, you'll see very unfavorable results. Why do you think polearm barbs are so good? Dual wielding will never statistically against a proper wwsin. However, you can win if you're lucky or have better experience. My ww assassin can take more hits than a ill equipped barb, say CoH + Azurewrath + SS will have a tough time killing me, while he'll be dying fast. Against the Ebotd + CoH/Enigma + SS I definitely won't die in one hit. Maybe two at the most if they have realy great items/charms, and I've taken at least 5 ww's from a barb who showed me his good equipment afterwards.

So, you just have yet to encounter a strong WW sin on NL. Maybe they even did something like not use annihilus, or miscount the bonus, and have too much str/dex. 20 or so vit makes a huge difference.

So, really, for me USWest Ladder WWSin, I've beaten all Dual Wielding barbs (eBotD + Beast) I've only had 4-5 fight me, but I never lost to any of them, and played against some more than once. They do hit more, but I find the trade off of hitting less for more def (wep/shield) or a massive increase of damage (2 h) is way better. Also, if I get lucky and score even 1 more hit on the barb, I can sometimes get them to 1 life. Then I can mindblast, although usually they tell me they're at around 300 life but it appears as if it's 1 on their name bar. Barbs don't have enough flexibility to compete with WWsins in terms of skill. The best they can do is get lucky or use the right gear (weapon SHIELD) to win.

 

[gmoura]

Woh, ok!! thanx guys!!

mu verdict: im gonna use a shield!

 

[Inuyasha]

Please don't make generalized statements, especially with the lack of experienced WW sins in West NL. I'm on West LADDER and I'm owning. The advantage of having the best equipment at decent %'s is a good one to have on ladder, when you have hammerdins telling you they can't find soj's to wear. Anyways, I'm not doubting you. You probably haven't found any decent NL wwsins to duel. But when ladder expires, I'll gladly duel you. This is the problem for barbs, since they are so immensely popular and efficient, you can get a bit carried away in your assumptions or how good you think you are. As a wwsin, I own plenty of ppl, but I bet that'll change once I hit NL where everyone has equal or better equipment than me. Also, I know I can't beat certain classes. But for barbs, here's what I found:.

Did I make a generalized statement? Hmm, sorry, I didn't catch that. It seems all that I said was that I haven't had any problems with WW Sins. Does that mean good ones don't exist? No, in fact I'm almost always extremely clear on that. Whenever I say something about a build, especially something negative, I do not mean it to everyone who plays that class, nor everyones take on the build.

No shield with one weapon does kill, but only because the damage is way higher. I bet you if you duel wield, let one weapon break, and try to duel, you'll see very unfavorable results. Why do you think polearm barbs are so good? Dual wielding will never statistically against a proper wwsin. However, you can win if you're lucky or have better experience. My ww assassin can take more hits than a ill equipped barb, say CoH + Azurewrath + SS will have a tough time killing me, while he'll be dying fast. Against the Ebotd + CoH/Enigma + SS I definitely won't die in one hit. Maybe two at the most if they have realy great items/charms, and I've taken at least 5 ww's from a barb who showed me his good equipment afterwards..

Okay, I really see no point whatsoever to this entire paragraph. Sorry, but the sentence "Dual wielding will never statistically against a proper wwsin." Leaves something to be desired, such as the neccessary words to complete it. I have no idea where you are going with the "break one weapon then duel. You'll lose" part, because that really doesn't have much of anything to do with the entire arguement, now does it? I have the same comment about the Polearm Barb. Apparently I don't know why Polearm barbs are so good, besides the fact that they have Range5 and decent damage.

Also, the WWs you were taking from those barbs weren't the dual wielders, were they? How much life do you achieve with your WW sin?

I think it'd be pretty damn hard for me to let one weapon break, seeing as I use double BoTD, not the usual Beast+BotD.

So, you just have yet to encounter a strong WW sin on NL. Maybe they even did something like not use annihilus, or miscount the bonus, and have too much str/dex. 20 or so vit makes a huge difference.

So, really, for me USWest Ladder WWSin, I've beaten all Dual Wielding barbs (eBotD + Beast) I've only had 4-5 fight me, but I never lost to any of them, and played against some more than once. They do hit more, but I find the trade off of hitting less for more def (wep/shield) or a massive increase of damage (2 h) is way better. Also, if I get lucky and score even 1 more hit on the barb, I can sometimes get them to 1 life. Then I can mindblast, although usually they tell me they're at around 300 life but it appears as if it's 1 on their name bar. Barbs don't have enough flexibility to compete with WWsins in terms of skill. The best they can do is get lucky or use the right gear (weapon SHIELD) to win.

Uh, sorry, but the "massive increase in damage" that you speak of with 2handed whirlers really isn't normally suggested, for it comes at the expense of life, speed, and flexibility. I reach about 5/7 of the damage of Barbs that go 2handed, and I hit twice as much, for more chances to break through the enemy's shield.

The extra defence from Shield really doesn't account to too much, because when you have max shout and some Iron Skin, it's noticability drastically reduces. The only reason to ever take a shield would be for the block, and I believe that even that is not worth the extra life, attacking power, and other bonuses you recieve from using 2 weapons.

Now, for the last part which I'm not sure whether to react with a scoff, or to thoroughly embarass you on this public forum. WW Barbs are quite possibly the most flexible character in the entire game, because there is no class that can consistantly beat them, yet they seem to be the bane of many classes. There are several strategies that they can use as well, not the least of which is having a Widowmaker on the switch to make the enemy think they must act aggresively }>

You tell me not to generalize, yet you make such a rash comment of immense ignorance against ALL WW barbs. Shame on you.

In conclusion to my retaliation of this deeply confusing and (seemingly) hastily done reply, please try to not contradict yourself next time and put some more thought (and time) into your posts. Have yourself a nice day.
-Daman

 

[eA-Zaku]

I skimmed your post and apparently I offended you or was acting rude/arrogant. I apologize. I'll address your points later. What I wanted to post was this:

Today in a public pk game, I stayed long enough for everyone to hostile me (I don't hostile people) and there were about 4 barbs there. Three of the four wore ethereal berserker axes and a monarch of some sort. I assumed it was ebotd zerker/stormshield, but they told me it was Grief/Fortitude armor/Phoenix monarch. They could 1 hit KO me and 1 hit KO each other with WW, and also, when I managed to get a hit, it only took away about 20% of their health. This is by far the strongest wep/shield barb I've encountered, and far stronger than I expected barbs to be. Now I realize that ppl aren't exaggerating when they talk about the damage their barbs can deal and take.

...Interesting thought, though I've never had any problems whatsoever with a WW sin. They die in 1 WW or less, do minimal damage (except for poison, which really doesn't bother me too much anyways), and seem to do exactly what I want them to do all the time (run directly at me, get their asses handed to them. tele on to me, get their asses handed to them.)

This is what I meant. If you dual wield two 2h weapons, and break one, I recall back in 1.09 it acted as if you were wielding just ONE 2h weapon using 1 hand. So instead of acting like the broken weapon were nonexistant, you would hold your Colossus blade, etc. with one hand, and your other hand would appear to be holding an invisible weapon. This is what I meant. You cannot test this by just taking off your shield because then your weapon will revert to 2handed mode, causing the damage to skyrocket. But since I am mainly a sword barb, I just recently figured out it was a pretty pointless paragraph, since you could just use a berserker axe and take off the shield.

BTW I realize I might have slipped up by assuming you made a generalized statement but I don't see you saying "in my experience" you simply said "blah blah blah I've encountered for myself" then you proceeded to say "they" I guess I was kind of confused, and it is a bit redundant to say it twice.

The only reason to ever take a shield would be for the block

Finally caught you. Read what I said today about Phoenix users.

Now, for the last part which I'm not sure whether to react with a scoff, or to thoroughly embarass you on this public forum. WW Barbs are quite possibly the most flexible character in the entire game, because there is no class that can consistantly beat them, yet they seem to be the bane of many classes. There are several strategies that they can use as well, not the least of which is having a Widowmaker on the switch to make the enemy think they must act aggresively }>

It's fine. I make mistakes, and I seem to be one of the few individuals on earth who will admit that they're often times a jackass, AND often times wrong. If you're going to hate me for it, go ahead.

You tell me not to generalize, yet you make such a rash comment of immense ignorance against ALL WW barbs. Shame on you.

Well, I wasn't trying to be rude, since apparently you thought I was. But don't take a condescending tone with me just because I'm wrong. I tried to be polite to you in my reply, but I guess you didn't notice.

In conclusion to my retaliation of this deeply confusing and (seemingly) hastily done reply, please try to not contradict yourself next time and put some more thought (and time) into your posts. Have yourself a nice day.

Thank you, I WILL try not go generalize, in fact, I do try. It's just I'm not infallable. You seriously think I contradict myself on purpose? I'd like to consider myself modest, but I really don't think I've acted like a troll, EVER. Only thing that might unsettle the mods is my argumentative nature. I put tremendous thought and time into my posts, please don't assume that I don't. Especially when I take the time to use a nice selective vocabulary, and capitalize and punctuate correctly and not abbreviate in the more important posts I make. I know many posters do, but keep in mind, most people do not, especially online. I will have myself a nice day, but sadly I think that you were being sarcastic; trying to appear cool and condescending towards me at the same time. I'm sorry that you think of me this way because I was wrong and attempted to back up my argument that was incorrect from the start.

 

[Zangeif]

Just to clarify, I was talking about NL. I assume a ww sin will have a much harder time beating a dual wielding barb with the new runewords. It may be nearly impossible.

 

[Inuyasha]

I too must apologize then. To me it seemed that you were being arrogant and assuming that just because you managed to beat those few WW barbs that you believed you could defeat any. Of course, upon closer examination of my post, I realize that I may have sounded the exact same way.

I do respect you, Valkarie. I've seen many of your posts, and find many of them useful and oftentimes correct.

However, I'm glad that you finally encountered some good WW barbs and gained some respect for them. I doubt I'm that good however (MY barb in particular does not have the greatest charms, therefore only 5.5k life and 4.7k damage). You may very well be my superior, and I'll be glad to challenge you when ladder drops down.

This is what I meant. If you dual wield two 2h weapons, and break one, I recall back in 1.09 it acted as if you were wielding just ONE 2h weapon using 1 hand. So instead of acting like the broken weapon were nonexistant, you would hold your Colossus blade, etc. with one hand, and your other hand would appear to be holding an invisible weapon. This is what I meant. You cannot test this by just taking off your shield because then your weapon will revert to 2handed mode, causing the damage to skyrocket. But since I am mainly a sword barb, I just recently figured out it was a pretty pointless paragraph, since you could just use a berserker axe and take off the shield.

I happen to use two EboTD Zerk axes, so I was thoroughly confused by this. I could neither break my weapons, nor have them 2handed, so you can see where my unneccesary frustration was coming from
Thanks for clearing that up.

BTW I realize I might have slipped up by assuming you made a generalized statement but I don't see you saying "in my experience" you simply said "blah blah blah I've encountered for myself" then you proceeded to say "they" I guess I was kind of confused, and it is a bit redundant to say it twice.

No problems. I didn't realize that I hadn't made my statement completely clear, as I usually just cut/paste my usual statement into my arguements to make everything clear. That truly wasn't your mistake, it was mine.

Finally caught you. Read what I said today about Phoenix users.

Yes, I forgot about the new ladder shields (lucky bastards >_>), and was basing this off of a comparison of StormShield compared to an EboTD Zerk Axe (more life, more STR, more....)

Damn, I'm gonna be so weak in comparison when ladder drops :"(

It's fine. I make mistakes, and I seem to be one of the few individuals on earth who will admit that they're often times a jackass, AND often times wrong. If you're going to hate me for it, go ahead.

Yeah, admitting you make mistakes is one of the reasons you'll never be a good leader

But yeah, I'll try to own up to my mistakes too. *no promises B)*

Well, I wasn't trying to be rude, since apparently you thought I was. But don't take a condescending tone with me just because I'm wrong. I tried to be polite to you in my reply, but I guess you didn't notice.

Well, I certainly noticed in this reply. I just happen to have a thick skull and 7 different acute mental disabilities. Just out of curiosity though, how could you tell that I had a condescending tone? Isn't that like me making a face at you through a brick wall then you yelling at me to stop?

Thank you, I WILL try not go generalize, in fact, I do try. It's just I'm not infallable. You seriously think I contradict myself on purpose? I'd like to consider myself modest, but I really don't think I've acted like a troll, EVER. Only thing that might unsettle the mods is my argumentative nature. I put tremendous thought and time into my posts, please don't assume that I don't. Especially when I take the time to use a nice selective vocabulary, and capitalize and punctuate correctly and not abbreviate in the more important posts I make. I know many posters do, but keep in mind, most people do not, especially online. I will have myself a nice day, but sadly I think that you were being sarcastic; trying to appear cool and condescending towards me at the same time. I'm sorry that you think of me this way because I was wrong and attempted to back up my argument that was incorrect from the start

Yeah.. water under the bridge and such. I don't think of you in any way... such and such... I'm getting tired of replying to this stuff now. Lets just call it even or something. I'm going to ahve a snack.

 

[eA-Zaku]

Heh heh. Even if barbs are cheap bastards to duel against, the players are often the best mannered and most understandable

BTW can somebody tell me why ebotd zerker axe is better than 1h colossus blade. Is it damage or something? Too lazy to look it up. I post and duel at the same time.