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Vessel of Hatred

Assassin Triumvirate

LouB

LouB

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Jan 1, 2011
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Having just finished a Bladesin and having enjoyed playing her, I’ve decided that I want to do a martial arts build. After reading most of the Assassin guides and many Mat threads, I’ve decided that I need to do at least three.

I’ve establishing some ground rules:
1. Only one build can use Natalya set.
2. At least one build must use dual claws, probably 2 will
3. No trap skills on at least two builds, if not all three
4. Can’t use kick finish on all three builds (one must use Dragon Claw)
5. Can’t use the same Merc on all three
6. Main weapon must be different on all three
7. Mosaic Runeword not allowed (that’s a future build)
8. Alternate the builds through normal and then Nightmare.

Build #1
I believe I’ve got this one basically laid out. This one will be based on Maxicek’s TS/DT build guide using a Lawbringer phase blade and a Phoenix shield and use an Act2 Holy Freeze Merc with Infinity.

Build #2
I haven’t got as far with this one other than a Phoenix striker and use an Act 3 Cold Iron Wolf for the Merc.

Build #3
This will use Dragon Claw and obviously dual claws. For the Merc I’m going with an Act 5 Frenzy Barb wielding Lawbringer and Grief.

So, a few questions

1. Would build 2 or 3 make the best use of Natalya’s set

2. I’ve decided for the TS/DT build to use the Phoenix shield. The AB says that dual sources of -%fire resist will be added together. Does that also mean that the -28% fire damage from Phoenix will be added to the 80% reduction from the conviction on Infinity?

3. I’ve got a question on using dual Mosaics. Since the charges don’t get used, if I was put on all three charges using Phoenix Strike am I correct that it would just use the cold charge until I let the charges expire?

4. Is this claw at all useful?
Fool's Wrist Sword of the Vampire
Wrist Sword
One Hand Damage: 34 - 45
Durability: 44 of 56
Required Level: 48
Required Strength: 105
Required Dexterity: 105
Fingerprint: 0x33a72ff6
Item Level: 84
Version: Resurrected
+0.5 to Maximum Damage (Based on Character Level)
+16 to Attack Rating (Based on Character Level)
8% Mana stolen per hit
+2 to Blade Shield (Assassin Only)
+3 to Lightning Sentry (Assassin Only)
+2 to Weapon Block (Assassin Only)

5. I’ve read Grape’s PDR Phoenix striker and as a result have toyed with the idea of a PDR Assassin. I can get to 113 PDR using my helm and amulet of life everlasting, Sol Socketed Iron Pelt, Nature’s Peace, and Gerke’s Sanctuary shield socketed with a Sol Rune. However, that would mean giving up a +6 or +7 to skills and mean no dual claws or Nat’s set. I’ll tackle this after doing the initial three builds, but I’m curious as to what people think would be the best MA build.
 
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1. I would use Natalya's on the Phoenix Striker, unless you want to go with a weapon.
2. It is a good choice, as it has both ED and -FR. It was probably out of budget range when I wrote the guide. Stormshield will make you more tanky though.
3. Correct - Thought you were not going to use Mosaic though? For me Mosaic is it's own category. It breaks so much of the non-mosaic PS gameplay you can't really compare the two.
4. Not really. Possibly for a PvP hybrid assassin, but weapon bugging and sums would be needed
5. I don't see the point of going PDR. You already have Cloak of Shadows, Fade and Mind Blast if required.

Actually I have written guide for all three of these. IIRC from the Phoenix Strike guide, @jiansonz favoured an A1 merc. Could be interesting with the D2R bow options.
 
@Maxicek Correct, no Mosaic this time, but there will be one in the future. I was just curious to see if I understood correctly what was going on. I agree that Mosaic belongs in its own crowd, hence why I'm not going to use one on these three.

I've read all of your excellent guides. Two reasons for the Phoenix. First I try to do at least something different from the guide with most of my builds and second I really like Phoenix.

Acltually, you panned the Act 1 Rogue because a Faith bow doesn't bring much to the table. However, I'd be using Wrath. I really like Act 1 Rogues, but my Bladesin just used one so I thought I'd switch up and not use one this time. Then I read your comment about using an Iron Wolf. Since I've never even tried one I thought why not, the worse that can happen is too blame you for its dismal failure :ROFLMAO: and then switch to a Rogue.

why PDR, well because I could as I have the circlet and amulet already and they are the hardest to find. After doing an Abbot and the PDR Bear I realize that it's really an equipment dependent build, but I've occasionally thought about if it would be possible to do a PDR Sept.
 
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* I agree with @maxicek about Phoenix Strike and Nat's set, went the same route with my assassin.
* Strongly suggest to use SW instead of SM or none at all. SM tendency to cast Mind Blast will drive you crazy trying to charge-up.
* PDR sin....hmmmm (🤪)...something screams Medusa's Gaze with DT and Ice or Lightning Claw skill...
 
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@Miron Thanks, I used a Shadow Master with my Bladesin and the number of Mind Blasts was frustrating and that's without trying to charge up. Nightfish says you don't need either so I'm going to at least do that on at least one of them.

So, build #2 will be a Phoenix striker using Nat's set, a cold Iron Wolf and no SW or SM.
 
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+1 to not needing a Shadow. I’ve only found them annoying or near-useless on the Sins that I’ve used. My take is that unless there is literally no other place to put skill points constructively, best to skip, and then, only use the Warrior.
 
LouB said:
2. I’ve decided for the TS/DT build to use the Phoenix shield. The AB says that dual sources of -%fire resist will be added together. Does that also mean that the -28% fire damage from Phoenix will be added to the 80% reduction from the conviction on Infinity?
Click to expand...
Yes, except for fire immunes. Whether broken by Conviction or by a Sunder charm, the reduction by Conviction works at 1/5 effectiveness while the -28% fire res from Phoenix will still work at full effectiveness.

Also, it's -85% from the level 12 Conviction aura on Infinity.
 
@snickersnack thanks.

Next question.
Until now my knowledge of poison has been that you can die from it. Not what you'd call an extensive knowledge base. The plan right now is to max Venom on two builds so, it's about time I gain a little knowledge before I actually use it. I've now read the Tao of Poison and what I call the 1.10 version of the Tao. So, I understand how damage is calculated and the 10 frame timer. It looks like the only good way of improving Venom's damage for an assassin is using Trang's gloves.
I've also looked at some of the build threads and see that PhineasB already answered my thought of using Bramble - not worth it.
I've got 3 Pestilent Small charms (175 damage over 6 seconds) and if I have room will use them, but I'm not expecting a lot of improvement in poison damage.
 
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If you have a Cham kicking around, a ‘Plague’ claw (Cham Shael Um) would potentially help on a dual claw build. It doesn’t increase poison damage; however, the -23% enemy poison res. should make your Venom more effective..? Also gives you ctc Poison Nova on striking, ctc Lower Resist when struck, Cleansing aura, and other goodies.
 
LouB said:
I've got 3 Pestilent Small charms (175 damage over 6 seconds) and if I have room will use them, but I'm not expecting a lot of improvement in poison damage.
Click to expand...
IIRC (and if I understand correctly!) Venom reduces the timer for poison damage charms, which reduces the poison damage from the charms considerably. You can still use the charms but I don’t think they will be of much help.
 
I am no poison damage expert, but wouldn't a few charms that have a high bitrate increase the damage of venom? Or is it just that venom already has a high bitrate and charms can't really help and only bring the average down? Bitrates are averaged and time is added, but then cut to 10 frames by Venom, right?
 
Miron said:
Poison Dagger & Venom build... :D

Link #1
Link #2
Click to expand...
Thanks for the links.

To answer my own question: when using Venom, all bit rates are added, then the duration is capped at 10 frames. So, other sources of poison damage help, but not by much since the bitrate on Venom is so high, especially at high skill levels. If you have no other need for charms, then filling your inventory with good poison charms will help somewhat. For an assassin, a torch does way, way more than a poison damage charm will, and at high skill levels 1 shadow disciplines skiller gives very nearly the same damage boost as 3 decent charms (e.g. 3x 175 damage over 6 seconds small charms).

I mostly typed that out just in the hope that it'll stick in my head this time...
 
@Miron Yes, I read the threads at both links before posting last night. Both very helpful in understanding Poison.

The Necro can use Venom from items and take advantage of this (dare I call it a bug?). However, there is no way for an Assassin to use Poison Dagger. The only item that grant Poison Dagger is Blacksbog's Sharp and it is only granted to Necromancers.

Turns out that this also works for the two Amazon poison skills. However, unless I equip the Sin with Gargoyle's Bite and cast Plague Javelin and throw Javelins there is no way for an Assassin to take advantage of it. Also, it only applies to the Javelin hit and not the gas clouds.

Conviction doesn't work on Poison, so Infinity won't help. The only things that I can come up to help venom is Trang's gloves, Poison facets for -Poison resistances and Grief for the -20 to -25% poison resistance.
 
You can get Lower Resist from items. A wand with charges is easy to shop and some runewords have ctc. Plague, for example in D2R, has -enemy poison res and ctc LR.
 
@snickersnack HMM, I hadn't thought about lower resists. Cast cloak, switch to a wand, cast LR and switch back to main weapon. Now if I had a couple of Cham runes sitting around I'd have my third build.

the list of runewords needs to have Plague added to it. You can find the data using the runeword calculator, it just isn't linked to the list of runewords.
 
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@Ziambe I used to collect just about every rare I found and I've got my original Atma stashes from way back. After looking at over 1,000 various items I finally found this pair of gloves

Stone Touch
Demonhide Gloves
Defense: 59
Durability: 10 of 12
Required Strength: 20
Required Level: 31
Item Version: 1.10+ Expansion
Item Level: 84
Fingerprint: 0xe85353dc
+6 to Dexterity
+65% Enhanced Defense
10% Increased Attack Speed
Level 4 Poison Dagger (6/30 Charges)

All of the various charges that I came across had low levels (1 to 6), but at least it would give my Assassin the Poison Dagger skill.

So, what probability gets assigned to finding a pair of gloves with +2MA, 20% IAS and the Poison Dagger charges.
 
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