Forum Mafia - The Dark Tower Game Thread

[Phillinnicus]

So why did you jump to mafia not getting a kill instead of a redirection of the mafia kill?



By how PGO's generally work, the PGO would have died as well. Elite bodyguard I could see.



Not sure if you ever answered why you claimed. Are you saying you did it to try to make it to the endgame?



What do you mean by this?

Phil, do you quote all of kegs posts before or only selected ones?

Bunch of new posts, just posting this before reading them.

I quoted any I found semi-relevant to very relevant. So a lot. Sorry if it's a large wall, just wanted to compile it for reference.

 

[flubbucket1]

I disagree with you because I don't care what his role is, and I haven't asked for it. I want to hear if he thinks that there are actually (22?) roles/powers in this game, or if he just thinks there are 22 unique names. CDM claimed a unique name, and said that he was VT.

I think his claim was fundamentally a bad town move and am not particularly happy with his justification of it. Claiming not VT, if he is town, gives the mafia an incentive to NK him, and our doc is already dead. Do you think it's a pro town move to disclose role on day 2 with nothing in exchange (i.e. evidence of scum)?

I would be shocked if there were 22 roles in this game. In fact, it doesn't look like the mafia player who died had a role; does he think that all townies have roles but not mafia players?

I agree there are 22 players in this game. I can haz maffs.

normally night kills don't reveal roles, and normally they don't even reveal names. I don't think it reveals abilities as Andolini didn't flip as "vanilla" or "goon" or anything, actually.

I don't know if he's talking about townies and mafia or just townies but I took it as all players. I already explained what I think the benefit of his claim was because he agrees with me 100% about CDM. At the risk of saying "maybe he is a cop", maybe he is a cop and investigated CDM. I don't know but I agree with what he's saying. I think a lynch on CDM will tell us more.

Actually, I have a bit of a thought to propose;
If a mafia died and was killed by a townie (be it directly or indirectly) then they should have got a kill flip. If this person thinks the mafia KNOW who they are, perhaps they should claim and tell us andolini's ability if he has one. Chances are that if the player responsible for the death is already known (PGO?) then that player should consider claiming so the town knows.

Does anyone have an opinion on why this should or shouldn't happen?

You are bad for asking. Bad, bad, very bad. Have we not had the rolefishing discussion already?? Go to the corner and think about what you've done. Oh, and put on this pointy hat to help us make fun of your stupidity.

Our games are fairly power role heavy these days, and I know drixx is creative.

I'm not sure how much info we get on a death, but I think we may not get role.

It appears to me we get reveals on lynch only.

 

[Goryani]

What about you? Would you claim at that point as VT?

Placeholder response for now. When I see if the rest of the list of players have responded (or they appear they aren't going to) I'll answer.

And for the record, we never used terms like WIFOM and LAMIST . I played one game on another website that did, but don't really remember them all.

Just wait till we LIPS your Occam's Razor with our mFOS while on a Gamber's Fallacy in MYLO.

 

[Zauper]

So why did you jump to mafia not getting a kill instead of a redirection of the mafia kill?

Honestly, re-direct didn't occur to me because I've never played a game with them.

 

[Jcakes1]

Who do you think is the conductor of this train?

In thread Philly. Out of thread, I would not be surprised if coju and cdm are part of it.

 

[flubbucket1]

Placeholder response for now. When I see if the rest of the list of players have responded (or they appear they aren't going to) I'll answer.



Just wait till we LIPS your Occam's Razor with our mFOS while on a Gamber's Fallacy in MYLO.

Stop it... you are going to make me laugh until my bottom falls off.

 

[Gwaihir]

normally night kills don't reveal roles, and normally they don't even reveal names. I don't think it reveals abilities as Andolini didn't flip as "vanilla" or "goon" or anything, actually.

I don't know if he's talking about townies and mafia or just townies but I took it as all players. I already explained what I think the benefit of his claim was because he agrees with me 100% about CDM. At the risk of saying "maybe he is a cop", maybe he is a cop and investigated CDM. I don't know but I agree with what he's saying. I think a lynch on CDM will tell us more.

Actually, I have a bit of a thought to propose;
If a mafia died and was killed by a townie (be it directly or indirectly) then they should have got a kill flip. If this person thinks the mafia KNOW who they are, perhaps they should claim and tell us andolini's ability if he has one. Chances are that if the player responsible for the death is already known (PGO?) then that player should consider claiming so the town knows.

Does anyone have an opinion on why this should or shouldn't happen?

Interesting. Second person to assume that the kill was by a townie killer and not a redirect.

As for reveals, I see very few cases where this would be good right now. Knowing the role of a dead mafia is not that important in my opinion. If the kill was done by redirect, or there are multiple instances, a claim puts them in danger. And even if it was a one shot, why give mafia that info?

Completely up to the person who caused the death on claiming, but I don't see much use for it atm.

Also, if we start seeing nights with multiple deaths, phar and Zauper jump to the top of my scum list.

Sath and cdm I believe. I think they all have unique names, yes.

What name did Sath claim again?

 

[Phillinnicus]

In thread Philly. Out of thread, I would not be surprised if coju and cdm are part of it.

I'm curious. What exactly about me is scummy? Or what makes you think I'm leading this "train"?

 

[pharphis]

Interesting. Second person to assume that the kill was by a townie killer and not a redirect.

As for reveals, I see very few cases where this would be good right now. Knowing the role of a dead mafia is not that important in my opinion. If the kill was done by redirect, or there are multiple instances, a claim puts them in danger. And even if it was a one shot, why give mafia that info?

Completely up to the person who caused the death on claiming, but I don't see much use for it atm.

Also, if we start seeing nights with multiple deaths, phar and Zauper jump to the top of my scum list.



What name did Sath claim again?

I didn't jump to town killer. I said "if". Thanks for providing your thoughts though, that was the important part.

Redirect does seem more often since there was no townie death last night and we have (probably) no doc

 

[Gwaihir]

We didn't get roles for the two nightkills which means that either night kills don't reveal role (possible, though it would differ from what I'm used to where it's consistent) or that they were vanilla mafia/town. Is it really normal that lynches would reveal role, but not night kills?

Both nightkills just didn't have anything after alignment; I would assume that that means vanilla. All power roles would be tricky to balance for a lot of reasons.

Normally here NK's do not reveal any info at all besides player name. I remember Drixx saying something about revealing chracter name and alignment for story purposes, and giving mafia fake names, as kegs has pointed out. Also a lynch normally gives a role, even if it is just vanilla.

I quoted any I found semi-relevant to very relevant. So a lot. Sorry if it's a large wall, just wanted to compile it for reference.

Not complaining about the post. If they were all the posts, kegs would have had a very high percentage of his posts relating to BA.

Honestly, re-direct didn't occur to me because I've never played a game with them.

Never had a bus driver or redirector in a game before? Bus drivers at least I thought were pretty common. Maybe that is just here though.

 

[IWantToUseNumbersInMyName]

Well who gives you the worst feeling? this is how scum lurkers coast through games. They just say they're unsure about people, post some thoughts but no votes, and so are missed when people do vote counts later on to see who is consistent and inconsistent. I'd like you to vote someone. If you're not willing to place a vote then my vote is staying.

Unrelated to that but also in your post. .. My thoughts on kegs differ a bit from earlier. We can all probably safely assume there is no doc/healer left and so kegs claiming a PR is more suspect.

Hmm. Still like 40 hours until the end of the day right? I don't see any reason to place a vote until I actually have a suspicion of someone. Last time I voted cdm, mainly because of what everyone else was saying was inconsistent behavior. Because of that, someone else immediately switched their vote FROM cdm to thefranklin, which was obviously bad for us. I think I'm going to act on my opinion, not others right now, considering how it didn't work out that well for us last time. It would obviously have been better for town if cdm had been lynched yesterday...as things are now he could either still be anything. A fake claim of VT protects you from basically everything.

 

[Goryani]

Is there a way to view all posts by a single player in these forums/threads?

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(This looks really weird right now, but I pasted)
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Does anyone have an opinion on why this should or shouldn't happen?

It depends on the role. Example: a vigilante should get a flip but a busdriver shouldn't. A PGO shouldn't receive a flip (namely because a PGO doesn't prevent a kill, just causes an extra kill - in other words, if a PGO was involved, BA was the PGO) but a townie PGO should have seriously thought about claiming before N1.

Is it really normal that lynches would reveal role, but not night kills?

Yes. Very normal. It's quite rare to see anything listed after a night kill other than 'Soandso died.'

You are bad for asking. Bad, bad, very bad. Have we not had the rolefishing discussion already?? Go to the corner and think about what you've done. Oh, and put on this pointy hat to help us make fun of your stupidity.

I don't consider what pharphis said there to be rolefishing. He outlined a scenario in which it would be beneficial for a townie to claim. I can agree with the general scenario though I question the likelihood of such a scenario - that's a lot of hoops to jump through. Unsaid by pharphis would be the true benefit of such a claim: a townie reasonably capable of being confirmed. Mafia killed by busdriver COULD fake it, though a busdriver claim would then not only confirm the busdriver but also bag another scum.

 

[Goryani]

No guarantee, but I think I know what coju meant by a BA-kestegs connection. Normally I'd let coju answer but at this point I don't think he's going to.

It happened in twilight. Drixx mentioned rewards for factions. At some point, talk veered to rewards for neutrals receiving the reward(s). Then there was discussion about how neutral rewards may or may not be bad for the town. Then BA asked if neutral was considered a faction. kestegs replies. BA replies to kestegs with the now famous quote. kestegs doens't reply until the next day, with another oft quoted quote.

The exchange is thick enough to stand some type of connection on, but what connection?

What say you coju? Am I close?

phil, you said you agreed with the connection coju made between kegs and BA. What was that connection, as I didn't understand what coju was connecting at the time and he was the only person I remember talking about it.

Interesting. I remember the conversation because YOU asked a question about the conversation. I consider that "talking about it." It was the first post of D2. coju doesn't say anything for another ~100 posts. Rusty memory or going through the motions?

 

[pharphis]

woohooo! (also wut)

Is this the part where we believe CG from now on?

No guarantee, but I think I know what coju meant by a BA-kestegs connection. Normally I'd let coju answer but at this point I don't think he's going to.

It happened in twilight. Drixx mentioned rewards for factions. At some point, talk veered to rewards for neutrals receiving the reward(s). Then there was discussion about how neutral rewards may or may not be bad for the town. Then BA asked if neutral was considered a faction. kestegs replies. BA replies to kestegs with the now famous quote. kestegs doens't reply until the next day, with another oft quoted quote.

The exchange is thick enough to stand some type of connection on, but what connection?

What say you coju? Am I close?



Interesting. I remember the conversation because YOU asked a question about the conversation. I consider that "talking about it." It was the first post of D2. coju doesn't say anything for another ~100 posts. Rusty memory or going through the motions?

You're talking about the post above? That has nothing to do with the BA/kegs thing.

 

[Goryani]

Typo. I meant D1.

I didn't get that feeling of a neutral group. His sentence can easily apply to independent neutral players and that's how I read it. Did anyone else interpret it like kegs/BA?

 

[Jcakes1]

Ok as I was asleep most of the last few hours of D1 (and I've been at work until about now) I've gone back to some of yesterdays posts.

CDM is indeed acting different than normal, but I'm not convinced he's scum just yet.

My top 2 suspects are phil and Franklin, for reasons I've already explained.

Just some evidence that backs up kestegs claim of "day late OMGUS"

As for most suspicious, Sath tops my list with his "I have a VT claim" post. That one just sits poorly with me. I am unsure of what to make of phar jumping to his defense, it seems unlikely both would be mafia, but I could be wrong on that.

Vote: Sathoris

I've quoted you, but you are not alone in this (Moar and CDM also had votes). A number of people were suspicious of Sath in D1 but noone has voiced anything today.

just in case:

Unvote: Kestegs
Vote: Sathoris

I won't vote for cdm today. His role claim is a town role claim and one that I think can be important at some scenario. Thinking of the hidden mechanics here. All my knowledge of his character is from the wikia, and that was very pro town. There is, of course, the chance that he is fake claiming. I take that chance.

Interesting, in what sort of scenario would a vanilla townie be important?

I'm pretty sure 1 or 2 one the thefranklin vote are scum. I'd really like to hear from Gory why he is playing so passive this game. It's just not him as town, but it is also just too different from his towm play that I think he would do it with purpose if he's scum.

Phil and BPC are both behaving too rational and posting too many nonspam messages. Though Phil more than BPC. I'd vote for either of them today, but I'd prefer Phil. He seems a lot like riding on what somebody else said. Agreeing, but not having own opinions. Not sure though. Haven't re read the thread looking fr it and won't before nightfall either.

What are your thoughts on Phil today?

I think the whole white/red thing was a slip by franklin

Vote:TheFranklin

Lurking Lurking Laarz.

I'm curious. What exactly about me is scummy? Or what makes you think I'm leading this "train"?

A few things.
1) You never mentioned anything about believing coju's link until your first post
2) CDM jumped on the train fairly quickly and I feel iffy about him (coju)
3) kestegs was going at you relatively hard (along with a number of other people) and it feels like you wanted to come out swinging against kestegs (particularly when you make posts like this)

Woops, some bad formatting. Wanted to get that out as soon as possible.

Anyway, I forgot to include this:

Vote: kestegs

I'm nearly 100% sure that kestegs is mafia, this is due to connection to BA that one or two other people have pointed out as well as how the majority of his posts seem to irk me now that I look at them.

 

[Jcakes1]

Who do you think is the conductor of this train?

I've thought about this a bit further, but it seems unlikely that it would be a qt planned train. The mafia would need to know in advance that BA was going to die.

That said the train on kestegs does feel premeditated, Philli mentioned nothing about believing the link between BA and kestegs until his vote on kestegs. In fact I don't think anyone mentioned believing in the link except coju. CDM did think that kestegs was scum on D1.

 

[Zauper]

Never had a bus driver or redirector in a game before? Bus drivers at least I thought were pretty common. Maybe that is just here though.

Yeah, never had them that I can think of. We tended towards slightly more traditional (roleblock/doc/cop) or more peculiar (end day/night phase early; no mafia)

 

[Kestegs]

It appears to me we get reveals on lynch only.

Agreed. That's what I intended to convey with my post.

What name did Sath claim again?

I don't think he did, just VT iirc.

 

[pharphis]

Typo. I meant D1.

iirc this took place before coju said anything but I'll have to (or someone else can) check later today. If this is the same thing that coju is talking then this must be THE link. Nothing else really sticks out to me, but what kind of link is it? They agree with each other on neutrals? I'm not sure how that makes both of them mafia. Other scenario is that they're both neutral imo but clearly that's not the case.

So is the link just BA sounding buddy buddy with kegs? I guess we're waiting for coju on this one.