Why don't more people use this shield?

crazy_bear

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Jul 30, 2003
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Why don't more people use this shield?

My SC MFer found a Gerke's Santuary Pavise from Meph (Stats below).

Looking at the stats I thought wow, nice shield for defensive purposes. Good def, block, resists, PDR and MDR! And yet, I don't see it mentioned very often as a shield option in discussions here. It is mentioned in a few of the guides as a lesser alternative to Stormshield but I could see places where the mdr and pdr might give it an edge over stormshield (ex when used with shaftstop,
a melee char with shaftstop/vamp gaze/Gerkes would be a heck of a tank). It also seems like it might be a great option for a sorc that wanted to go the max block route.

So my question is, is this a shield that isn't used much because it kindof falls in between uses, or is just forgotten, or is there some other reason why it seldom comes up?

CB


Gerke's Sanctuary
Pavise
Defense: 257
Chance to Block: 74%
Smite Damage: 10 to 17
Durability: 59 of 172
Required Strength: 133
Required Level: 44
Item Version: 1.10+ Expansion
Item Level: 87
Fingerprint: 0xedd83c3d
+226% Enhanced Defense
+30% Increased Chance of Blocking
Damage Reduced by 12
Magic Damage Reduced by 17
All Resistances +29
+100 Maximum Durability
Replenish Life +15
 
I cant answer your question, but i also really like the shield. Socket a diamond in it and you also get really good resist.
 
Stormshield:
Defense: (136-504) - (151-519) (varies)(Base Defense: 133-148)
Required Level: 73
Required Strength: 156
Chance to Block: Pal: 77%, Ama/Asn/Bar: 72%, Dru/Nec/Sor: 67%
Paladin Smite Damage: 12 To 34
+ (3.75 Per Character Level) 3-371 Defense (Based On Character Level)
+25% Increased Chance Of Blocking
35% Faster Block Rate
Damage Reduced By 35%
Cold Resist +60%
Lightning Resist +25%
+30 To Strength
Attacker Takes Lightning Damage of 10
Indestructible

Gerkes Sanctuary
Defense: 221-268 (varies)(Base Defense: 68-78)
Required Level: 44
Required Strength: 133
Chance to Block: Pal: 84%, Ama/Asn/Bar: 79%, Dru/Nec/Sor: 74%
Durability: 172
Paladin Smite Damage: 10 To 17
+180-240% Enhanced Defense (varies)
+30% Increased Chance of Blocking
All Resistances +20-30 (varies)
Replenish Life +15
Damage Reduced By 11-16 (varies)
Magic Damage Reduced By 14-18 (varies)

The stats of Stormshield is superior over Gerkes Sanctuary, except for the MDR. Gerke really lacks the FBR mod and the stat that really gives the Stormshield the edge is the +30 strength stat, which enables you to wear Colossus Blades with 156 strength, those 30 points can be spent in vitality instead and that results in about 240 extra life with maxed BO. The defense is also roughly twice as much at clvl 99 and that makes a huge difference on your defense rating too. My opinion: Stormshield > Gerkes Sanctuary

In 1.09 shaftstop/vamp gaze/stormshield was _the_ equipment for a melee-character :)
 
Yeah, good point janmaxim............... for barbs.

30 vitality means 60 more life for sorcs (for example) and that's not very much and really, if a Sorc needs max block to survive hell, something is wrong.

Gerkes is a solid choice, and although not as "impressive" as Stormshield, it gives resist to all, gives PDR and MDR and has a very very very nice chance of block, not to mention it can be equiped at a good mid level and is easier to find (and trade) than a SS.

The problem for gerkes is that SS has won a reputation, and beating that won't be easy, not to mention that good 35%DR and 35% FBR, although, from my point of view, having max block requires a big price to pay.
 
Well, Gerkes and Shaftstop don't really add, concerning PDR. AFAIK, the straight PDR comes first, and the percentage reduction later. Therefore, the PDR from the shield isn't worth that much when you combine it with Shaftstop.

On the other hand, if you combine it with more straight PDR (SOL runes for example), it is quite nice.

What makes me think about it is the +15 regeneration. I am currently playing with a merc with added +20 regen from Husoldal Evo, and that merc is astounding, he has low defense but is quite hard to kill (except by very hard hitting foes or poison). I'm tempted to try a similar approach on some real char, I guess you can get a quite high regeneration rate with such items. Perhaps a martyr variant, or just any char with reasonable life to take some hits....
 
Unfortunately, the Str requirements of the GS are huge. A blocking sorceress is bad enough with health already to waste another points into Strength. The same counts for SS - despite its nice blocking properties and PDR, she would loose even more life and also resists! Also the FBR is essential for her, and there is none on Gerke's.

Concerning rarity, SS's properties are fixed (except for defense), while GS's are not. E.g. mine sucks :smiley:
 
Looking at it from another angle, which characters usually go for shields? Barbs are often 2-handed or dual wielding, were druids are almost always 2-handed, more than half of the sorcs use shields to improve their offense, around half of the assasins go dual claw, bowazons obviously cannot use shields... That leaves duelers, elemental druids, javazons, some sorcs, paladins and necros.

Now, paladins have HoZ and necros Homunculus, and even if those are not available, they're better off with a class specific. Duelers use SS for the 35% PDR. The remaining builds can use Gerke's, among many options including skill boosters (Lidless, Spirit, etc), huge resist givers (Moser's, 4pd), crazy blockers (Whitstan's), the almighty SS and the all-in-one Rhyme. That leaves very few builds which do use Gerke's Sanctuary.
 
It's 1-0 for Gerke's in my character menu. None of my characters use SS, one uses Gerke's. The one is Grim. Her equip has been upgraded from those days and now she's at level 90.
Those who don't want to read just-another-Mat-threads, she went for PDR route. Max block, max energy, ES, Prayer Merc. 13 points in TK, slvl17 ES (no skillers, what a shame). Really great performance and looks darn cool. I never believed that I could like the looks of Tower Shield. But this one was an exception, damn it's cool...
If you ask me, the problem with Gerke's is that the PDR is quite useless (MDR is quite useless always) if you don't make a PDR based char. You know the saying, don't go PDR if you don't go all the way. And when you don't go PDR all the way, the DR is much more useful.
 
@Tupsi: very nice setup btw. Still, if I don't miss anything, your second highest Str demand is mere 65 for Silkweave, which is far less than those 133. You could invest those points into Energy, if you sticked with some "lighter" shield considering your nice 30% mana increase.

To be exact, Moser's would need more points in Dexterity to keep max block. Whitstan's seems as a better alternative, esp. because resistances doesn't matter that much, if your 67% ES is permanently on. I might also suggest a more offensive variant with an upped Visceratuant (77 Str, 72% block, +1 skills).
 
I'm thinking one of the big reasons people don't use the shield is that the strength requirement is a little steep for an exceptional shield, and by the time you're in Hell, most people prefer big %PDR. Still, I have given this shield serious thought, and I figure it would be an ideal one for an ES sorcy. Between this shield, Iron Pelt or Gladiator's Bane, a pair of Dwarf Stars, String of Ears, and some Sol runes, you could have insane amounts of point-based PDR/MDR. If you get enough, it might even warrant using a lower level ES than would otherwise be needed, which would mean you could take more hits with the same mana (or you could pump vitality a bit more than otherwise, giving you a greater safety buffer vs bugged mana burn monsters).

I guess the shield has its uses, but outside of a few niche builds, it just isn't as good in most situations as other alternatives. People have mentioned Stormshield and Mosers (for what it's worth, I love Moser's). Another great option, if you have a Mal rune, is Sanctuary. My Kingslayer enchantress (who just beat hell tonight) used a Sanctuary hyperion up until she'd done most of the WSK, at which point she'd made it to level 81 and could afford to exchange it for a Stormshield, her resists having been made up with a Metalgrid amulet.

Well, Gerkes and Shaftstop don't really add, concerning PDR. AFAIK, the straight PDR comes first, and the percentage reduction later. Therefore, the PDR from the shield isn't worth that much when you combine it with Shaftstop.

On the other hand, if you combine it with more straight PDR (SOL runes for example), it is quite nice.

What makes me think about it is the +15 regeneration. I am currently playing with a merc with added +20 regen from Husoldal Evo, and that merc is astounding, he has low defense but is quite hard to kill (except by very hard hitting foes or poison). I'm tempted to try a similar approach on some real char, I guess you can get a quite high regeneration rate with such items. Perhaps a martyr variant, or just any char with reasonable life to take some hits....
If you want regeneration, do what I'm thinking of: make a paladin, max Prayer, and use Insight. Charge and Vengeance are two skills that would work well with a build like this, as the massive mana regeneration would power the skills. The Meditation aura will synergize with Prayer, and you'd have massive life regen (my enchantress, mentioned above, used a Prayer merc w/ Insight, and she'd heal 40+ life every couple of seconds). If you drop a point into Cleansing, you could use it when you really wanted life regen, needed to help your merc (since the Meditation aura does them no good), and/or get rid of curses/poison. Aside from that, you could use your regular aura for the most part, while still getting the item-based Meditation.



 
Great discussion, thanks for the replies. I didn't realize PDR came off before %PDR, so that really does reduce it's effectiveness if used with %PDR equipment. The Str req is pretty high, but pretty similar to SS if you factor in the +30 on the SS. If you factor in +str from equipment it will still take a fair bit of investment to equip. Form all this then I suppose I can conclude it is one of those that is a good shield, but not specialized enough for a particular build (except possibly the +X PDR or ES sorc).

Thanks :thumbsup:
CB
 
@Ugla: I think that saying: "I now use Gladiator's" would be enough (sorry, forgot to say this before), but let's blabber a bit:

133 Str
185 Dex
10 Vita
212 Energy

Helm: +3 Light, 3 PDR. Needs to be changed. Preferably Griffon's (well hello there pricy :laugh: ) or +FCR, +Light/Sorc Circlet
Armor: The Gladiator's Bane (Shael) 2nd highest Str req of 111
Belt: Arachnid Mesh
Weapon: HotO
Shield: Gerke's with (pDia)
Gloves: Magefist
Boots: Sandstorm Trek when Baaling for the Poison res and FHR, otherwise Silkweave
Amulet: +3 Light, 14 PDR
Ring1: SoJ
Ring2: Nature's Peace 9 PDR and the fantastic mod of SMR.I.P

The most important stats:
-74% chance to block
-80 FCR, enough to break the BP of 63 and Lightning's 78
Griffon's would let me break the BP of 105, Lightning's 117 would need a bit of work.
-88 FHR with the help of 3 charms, breaks the BP of 86.
-61 PDR

Gerke's as the highest, Gladiator's as the 2nd highest, the 133 isn't that far off. It could be a little lower, but If I just stay at the current equipent choices or change for the few new ones I will still have an equip that provides zero +Str, just as planned. ...Unless I find a godly FCR Circlet and FCR Rings that provide massive Str bonus... I'm just glad that I never find anything godly like those.

Edit:
If you want regeneration, do what I'm thinking of: make a paladin, max Prayer, and use Insight. Charge and Vengeance are two skills that would work well with a build like this, as the massive mana regeneration would power the skills. The Meditation aura will synergize with Prayer, and you'd have massive life regen (my enchantress, mentioned above, used a Prayer merc w/ Insight, and she'd heal 40+ life every couple of seconds). If you drop a point into Cleansing, you could use it when you really wanted life regen, needed to help your merc (since the Meditation aura does them no good), and/or get rid of curses/poison. Aside from that, you could use your regular aura for the most part, while still getting the item-based Meditation.
Speaking of that, I'm planning on doing a char like this (I think we're both talking about SSoG's Abbot). Priest's Diadem of Life everlasting and Aerwynd's nice Defensive skiller gave me the last needed spark.



 
My b.net Javazon used a Gerkes. She was for running Nihlathak and the PDR was excellent for the snakes poison clouds.

If you want to build a tank, I recommend this.
- Gerkes with a PDiamond
- Gladiators Baine (Sol'ed)
- Natures Peace
- Thundergods Vigor
- Max block (or near max block)
- 1 point D/E/A

If you don't D/E/A the blow then you will probably block it, and the odd blow that does get through will be greatly reduced. If it's elemental then the belt will absorb it or your Fire and Cold resists will negate it. Throw a Rockstopper in there for some resists, and a little %DR in the end as well if you want.

I say Gerkes is quite useful if you use it for the right thing.

-hps
 
I have always used this shield atleast until lvl 73 but some other builds are better with it, I have an enchantress who uses it too.
 
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