Various posts relating to MF/RF efficiency

ffs

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Collection of posts regarding efficient magic finding and rune finding that should be preserved. (Will be linked to from 101 efficiency guide.)
 

ffs

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Originally posted by @Fruit:

____________
@Mest666
The on-paper drawn map is possibly the best Diablo II related thing I've ever seen. :D

@Gripphon
Si, route matters; max_segments and spawned_segments are factors in deciding whether or not a group should be upgraded from regular to unique. It calculates (spawned_segments * 100 / max_segments) and evaluated the result against the result of a random roll of 100 (seeded by the segment). If the result of the random roll is less, then the group is upgraded to unique. If the result of the random roll is greater or equal, then it will do another random roll of 100 (again using the segment's seed), and if the result is below 6, the group is upgraded to unique.

Once MonUMin (from levels.txt) has been reached, it will skip the first random roll, so it no longer uses max_segments and segments_spawned, but in stead only does the 6% chance per group to be upgraded to unique. Once MonUMax has been reached, it will no longer upgrade any monster to unique. (These counters do not include hardcoded packs or super uniques.)

If a group has been upgraded to unique, only then will it do a random roll of 100, and if the result is below 20 then the unique group is "upgraded" to champion.

As for this "max_segments"; based on the map seed, the game already knows how many segments each area consists of at the start of a game, and this number is stored in the struct of any area. This struct also stores how many random unique packs have spawned thus far, so whenever a monster group is spawned, this number will be checked, and whenever a group is upgraded, this number will be incremented.



So basically, the more you have explored of an area, the higher the chance per group is to be upgraded to unique. So generally speaking you should see less packs at the start of an area, and then it quickly ramps up as you move/teleport around. Though once MonUMin has been reached, it becomes a simple, steady 6% chance per group until MonUMax has been reached.

That would also explain why a different route affects unique spawns, because the segments_spawned will be different by the time that segment/group is spawned, which will affect the chance for the group to be upgraded to unique.

And based on the size of an area, its hardcoded density, RNG, and the way this MonUMin calculation works, sometimes areas end up having less packs than MonUMin.



Edit: These deviations that you see are fault of the "game seed"; this can be considered the master seed, and is responsible for fueling the spawns and seeds of the vast majority of units, either directly or indirectly. There is no way around this randomness, as this game seed is very random, and can not be influenced by us as players. It is generated each time you start a game, and among things uses "low-level" timers (like the time elapsed since booting your system). So even though this "magic line" is real, there are also things beyond your control.

In earlier patches, some things were not seeded by this game seed, but in stead by the map seed, thus the game was much less random in a lot of places, even allowing duplicate items, as pre-expansion time travelers know. Later patches however appropriately made some changes in this area, increasing randomness.
 

ffs

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Originally posted by Gripphon:

SC Concentrate barbarian
Category: AT
MF: 584/614
Item Find: 55%
Bosspacks: 555
Average time: 43.828
Efficiency: 5.095 sec/bosspack
Adjusted efficiency: 1.848 fabians

Overall not bad. I tried to get efficiency below 5, managed it for ~40 runs, then I started to get worse then. Luckily I'm not far from it, perhaps it's possible goal for next try. Also tried out some strange approach to this Concentrate build. Howl seemed great so maxed it, but knockback aura from Azurewrath does basically the same thing, except for single monster in there. I can go for more Concentrate damage to speed up killing process. Also I noticed that aura of Azurewrath applies only when it knockbacks monster, meaning physical immune monster will be immune to physical until knockback happens. That did slow me down a little because when I howled + switch to Azur, that takes more time than just switching to Azur right away. But at least I kept pretty safe not drinking pots like mad saving time in that aspect. I need more lightning resist for the next time, some random lightning enhanced monster can do a lot of damage to me.

Equipment + build:
Shako (Cham)
Enigma
Grief PB
Azurewrath (Ist)
Amulet: 2 barb 10 fcr 14 mf
Goldwrap
Chance Guards 40mf
War Traveler 48mf
Rare ring 12mf 7ll 18 poison res 99 ar
Rare ring 15mf 8ll 27lite ress 99ar

Switch: 2x Suicide Branch (Ist)

Merc: Insight, CoH, Kira's

Skills:
20 Sword Mastery
1 Inc. Speed
1 Natural Resistance
20 Concentrate
1 Berserk
20 Find Item
20 Howl
1 Battle Command
14 Battle Orders
 

ffs

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Originally posted by Kimppi:

I'd like to apologize that the post is a bit of a mess, I promised myself I would make a thread about this but hit a wall in what to write. The plan was to get everyone to stop running with a sorceress. Check Fabian's thread too to round this out, it's a better writeup and works pretty much the same except this is in AT.


Blah blah blah

I think we touched the subject of running Ancient Tunnels with a Barbarian when we were talking about the magic finding Berserker with Fabian&co over a year ago but it never really got anywhere. Last MFO I decided to sign up for some reason but wasn't really interested in doing the usual Pit Barb or whatever because I was afraid that I would get instantly bored and not get any running done so I got the idea of finally trying how one would fare against Sorcs in AT.

The original plan was to make a WW barb since it worked nicely a couple of years ago at Pindle with Azurewrath offhand. Ended with a single target attacker in the end. I quickly threw on the Zerker's MF gear that I last used in I-can't-remember and proceeded to respec. First I tried going with more or less the same skills as the Zerker with maxed Howl and attack/synergies switched. It didn't really work the way I wanted it to. The problem with AT is that the halls are very narrow. Howled monsters bump to walls and each other and come back to attack you. I took another respec and got the idea of trying War Cry to stun with 1-point Howl. Can't say that it worked any better the second time, radius of WC is so small that it didn't have that much effect. I just went with it anyway and the results I got in the MFO were quite nice. The average time I got during the MFO was 58 seconds so it should be more or less comparable to a sorc.

Azurewrath works wonders in AT but unfortunately it does nothing to the Invaders so those take the longest to kill with high physical resist (75 with SS) + highest life of all the monsters there. Not using a shield is more problematic in AT than Pit I think because of the narrow tunnels. You will get hit a lot more. Running AT is definately more challenging than running Pit with the first two skillsets I tried.

For this spring MFO I got the idea to switch to Beta Delirium on the Merc and it made the runs a lot safer. I don't even need to use Howl anymore, just tele to the boss and start whacking. The only problem with it is that it's incredibly easy to lose the bosses to the crowd when a few spawn in the same place. I also put a point in Berserk for testing against Stoneskin Invaders since I had all the leftovers from CC skills and it seems to work quite nicely. The rest went to Bash for a little damage increase on Concentrate. I managed a little over 55 second average time which is over 3 seconds better than than last time so I'd say the gear switch was a success.


Videos

Some test runs before Winter MFO with Howl only
[youtube]WkVcGE3o9PM[/youtube]


From the Spring MFO, (ab)using Confuse
[youtube]Tinlje3hRcg[/youtube]


Some numbers

The character is my lvl95 tele-zerker ISeeRed.
Now, these aren't optimized in any way, I just mashed the buttons in a way that seemed good.

Skill allocation:
20 Concentrate, Sword Mastery, Battle Orders and Find Item
1 to pre-reqs, BC, passives and Berserk
16 Bash

Stats:

Strength 30/131
Dexterity 154/160
Vitality 376/392
Energy 10/16

Resists:
Fire 12/75
Cold -6/75
Lightning 7/75
Poison -18/75

Kill/Tele
Life: 4793/4769
Mana: 323/742
Magic Find: 570/600

AR: 6477
FCR on tele-switch: 105
Hork %: 54


Gear:

Ist 1.07 Shako (75)
Grief PB (31 IAS so had to use 20ias gloves)
Enigma (95)
Ist Azurewrath (30)
20ias/25mf gloves (25)
Trang Belt
War Traveler (50)
Crafted Barb amulet
Nagel(29) and MF/LL ring (9)

On switch 2x Ist Wizardspikes. (60)

In inventory 31x7mf charms and 40mf Gheeds. (257)

Beta 'Delirium', eth 1.07 'Insight' Thresher and e-bugged CoH Archon on merc.

If the Grief had a better roll, I could have swapped some stuff around to get more MF. The LL ring probably isn't really necessary so that could have been another place for more MF but it's nice to get some health back. The winner's choice would probably be a 1.07 blood craft with 40mf.


Readouts:

Gear
Code:
Viper Beads
Amulet
Required Level: 89
Fingerprint: 0x4fd5539e
Item Level: 90
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+2 to Barbarian Skill Levels
+9% Faster Cast Rate
3% Mana stolen per hit
+60 to Life
+18 to Mana
Regenerate Mana 9%
69% Extra Gold from Monsters

Enigma
Breast Plate
JahIthBer
Defense: 818
Durability: 37 of 50
Required Level: 65
Required Strength: 30
Fingerprint: 0x63745b41
Item Level: 85
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+2 to All Skills
+45% Faster Run/Walk
+1 to Teleport
+753 Defense
+71 to Strength (Based on Character Level)
Increase Maximum Life 5%
Damage Reduced by 8%
+14 Life after each Kill
15% Damage Taken Goes To Mana
95% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items (Based on Character Level)
3 Sockets (3 used)
Socketed: Jah Rune
Socketed: Ith Rune
Socketed: Ber Rune

Nagelring
Ring
Required Level: 7
Fingerprint: 0x722f190
Item Level: 87
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+66 to Attack Rating
Magic Damage Reduced by 3
Attacker Takes Damage of 3
29% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items

Storm Loop
Ring
Required Level: 35
Fingerprint: 0x90fbaedd
Item Level: **
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+110 to Attack Rating
5% Life stolen per hit
Cold Resist +12%
Fire Resist +12%
9% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items

Trang-Oul's Girth
Troll Belt
Defense: 149
Durability: 10 of 18
Required Level: 62
Required Strength: 55
Fingerprint: 0x89b725a5
Item Level: 85
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+85 Defense
+66 to Life
Replenish Life +5
+27 to Mana
+30 Maximum Stamina
Cannot Be Frozen
Requirements -40%
Set (3 items): Cold Resist +40%

War Traveler
Battle Boots
Defense: 128
Durability: 42 of 48
Required Level: 42
Required Strength: 95
Fingerprint: 0x6fcefccf
Item Level: 94
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+25% Faster Run/Walk
Adds 15 - 25 Damage
+167% Enhanced Defense
+10 to Strength
+10 to Vitality
40% Slower Stamina Drain
Attacker Takes Damage of 7
50% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items
+30 Maximum Durability

Viper Hand
Heavy Gloves
Defense: 8
Durability: 3 of 14
Required Level: 51
Fingerprint: 0x53923b5f
Item Level: **
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+20% Increased Attack Speed
+27% Enhanced Defense
+14 to Strength
Lightning Resist +25%
Fire Resist +18%
25% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items

Harlequin Crest
Shako
Defense: 284
Indestructible
Required Level: 62
Required Strength: 50
Fingerprint: 0x500450f5
Item Level: 87
Version: Expansion
+2 to All Skills
+100% Enhanced Defense
Increase Maximum Life 40%
75% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items
1 Sockets (1 used)
Socketed: Ist Rune

Grief
Phase Blade
EthTirLoMalRal
One Hand Damage: 31 - 35
Indestructible
Required Level: 59
Required Strength: 25
Required Dexterity: 136
Fingerprint: 0x147facc0
Item Level: **
Version: Expansion 1.10+
35% Chance to cast level 15 Venom on striking
+31% Increased Attack Speed
Damage +397
Ignore Target's Defense
-25% Target Defense
+178% Damage to Demons (Based on Character Level)
Adds 5 - 30 Fire Damage
-24% to Enemy Poison Resistance
20% Deadly Strike
Prevent Monster Heal
+2 to Mana after each Kill
+11 Life after each Kill
5 Sockets (5 used)
Socketed: Eth Rune
Socketed: Tir Rune
Socketed: Lo Rune
Socketed: Mal Rune
Socketed: Ral Rune

Azurewrath
Phase Blade
One Hand Damage: 107 - 121
Indestructible
Required Level: 85
Required Strength: 25
Required Dexterity: 136
Fingerprint: 0x11e3678b
Item Level: 99
Version: Expansion 1.10+
Level 11 Sanctuary Aura When Equipped
+1 to All Skills
+30% Increased Attack Speed
246% Enhanced Damage
Adds 250 - 500 Magic Damage
Adds 250 - 500 Cold Damage Over 10 Secs (250 Frames)
All Stats +6
30% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items
+3 to Light Radius
1 Sockets (1 used)
Socketed: Ist Rune

Wizardspike
Bone Knife
One Hand Damage: 23 - 49
Durability: 13 of 26
Required Level: 61
Required Strength: 38
Required Dexterity: 75
Fingerprint: 0x107784bf
Item Level: 94
Version: Expansion 1.10+
Indestructible
+50% Faster Cast Rate
Increase Maximum Mana 15%
+190 to Mana (Based on Character Level)
Regenerate Mana 15%
All Resistances +75
30% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items
1 Sockets (1 used)
Socketed: Ist Rune

Wizardspike
Bone Knife
One Hand Damage: 23 - 49
Durability: 15 of 26
Required Level: 61
Required Strength: 38
Required Dexterity: 75
Fingerprint: 0xa44413ad
Item Level: 94
Version: Expansion 1.10+
Indestructible
+50% Faster Cast Rate
Increase Maximum Mana 15%
+190 to Mana (Based on Character Level)
Regenerate Mana 15%
All Resistances +75
30% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items
1 Sockets (1 used)
Socketed: Ist Rune


Charms
Code:
Gheed's Fortune
Grand Charm
Required Level: 62
Fingerprint: 0x2dd2d6e5
Item Level: 94
Version: Expansion 1.10+
127% Extra Gold from Monsters
Reduces all Vendor Prices 14%
40% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items

Small Charm of Good Luck
Small Charm
Required Level: 33
Fingerprint: 0x90ae6be1
Item Level: **
Version: Expansion 1.10+
7% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items

Small Charm of Good Luck
Small Charm
Required Level: 33
Fingerprint: 0x39ceb2c
Item Level: 81
Version: Expansion 1.10+
7% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items

Small Charm of Good Luck
Small Charm
Required Level: 33
Fingerprint: 0xbc636302
Item Level: 85
Version: Expansion 1.10+
7% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items

Small Charm of Good Luck
Small Charm
Required Level: 33
Fingerprint: 0xe2624249
Item Level: **
Version: Expansion 1.10+
7% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items

Small Charm of Good Luck
Small Charm
Required Level: 33
Fingerprint: 0xe32bedc
Item Level: 85
Version: Expansion 1.10+
7% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items

Small Charm of Good Luck
Small Charm
Required Level: 33
Fingerprint: 0xa5d1b7de
Item Level: 85
Version: Expansion 1.10+
7% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items

Small Charm of Good Luck
Small Charm
Required Level: 33
Fingerprint: 0xb40aecdb
Item Level: 85
Version: Expansion 1.10+
7% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items

Small Charm of Good Luck
Small Charm
Required Level: 33
Fingerprint: 0x8c6b2ae4
Item Level: 85
Version: Expansion 1.10+
7% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items

Small Charm of Good Luck
Small Charm
Required Level: 33
Fingerprint: 0x5970637
Item Level: **
Version: Expansion 1.10+
7% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items

Small Charm of Good Luck
Small Charm
Required Level: 33
Fingerprint: 0x68860f93
Item Level: 85
Version: Expansion 1.10+
7% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items

Small Charm of Good Luck
Small Charm
Required Level: 33
Fingerprint: 0x84bc6bcc
Item Level: **
Version: Expansion 1.10+
7% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items

Small Charm of Good Luck
Small Charm
Required Level: 33
Fingerprint: 0xac11f0c2
Item Level: **
Version: Expansion 1.10+
7% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items

Small Charm of Good Luck
Small Charm
Required Level: 33
Fingerprint: 0xc5e2db1c
Item Level: 94
Version: Expansion 1.10+
7% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items

Small Charm of Good Luck
Small Charm
Required Level: 33
Fingerprint: 0xba804958
Item Level: 85
Version: Expansion 1.10+
7% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items

Small Charm of Good Luck
Small Charm
Required Level: 33
Fingerprint: 0x35c2a700
Item Level: 99
Version: Expansion 1.10+
7% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items

Small Charm of Good Luck
Small Charm
Required Level: 33
Fingerprint: 0xc3b6c08a
Item Level: **
Version: Expansion 1.10+
7% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items

Stout Small Charm of Good Luck
Small Charm
Required Level: 33
Fingerprint: 0x5a16be52
Item Level: 99
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+1 Defense
7% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items

Small Charm of Good Luck
Small Charm
Required Level: 33
Fingerprint: 0x8bdd63cf
Item Level: 85
Version: Expansion 1.10+
7% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items

Small Charm of Good Luck
Small Charm
Required Level: 33
Fingerprint: 0xa54c3623
Item Level: **
Version: Expansion 1.10+
7% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items

Small Charm of Good Luck
Small Charm
Required Level: 33
Fingerprint: 0x75863d40
Item Level: **
Version: Expansion 1.10+
7% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items

Small Charm of Good Luck
Small Charm
Required Level: 33
Fingerprint: 0xe9a05b97
Item Level: 85
Version: Expansion 1.10+
7% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items

Small Charm of Good Luck
Small Charm
Required Level: 33
Fingerprint: 0xb3a8d13f
Item Level: 99
Version: Expansion 1.10+
7% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items

Small Charm of Good Luck
Small Charm
Required Level: 33
Fingerprint: 0xb4278f0
Item Level: 85
Version: Expansion 1.10+
7% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items

Small Charm of Good Luck
Small Charm
Required Level: 33
Fingerprint: 0x853c4cbe
Item Level: 85
Version: Expansion 1.10+
7% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items

Small Charm of Good Luck
Small Charm
Required Level: 33
Fingerprint: 0x16449735
Item Level: 84
Version: Expansion 1.10+
7% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items

Small Charm of Good Luck
Small Charm
Required Level: 33
Fingerprint: 0x80fdde60
Item Level: 85
Version: Expansion 1.10+
7% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items

Small Charm of Good Luck
Small Charm
Required Level: 33
Fingerprint: 0xa2a6fcac
Item Level: 75
Version: Expansion 1.10+
7% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items

Small Charm of Good Luck
Small Charm
Required Level: 33
Fingerprint: 0x9f6f599c
Item Level: 85
Version: Expansion 1.10+
7% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items

Small Charm of Good Luck
Small Charm
Required Level: 33
Fingerprint: 0x5d3b579
Item Level: **
Version: Expansion 1.10+
7% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items

Fiery Small Charm of Good Luck
Small Charm
Required Level: 33
Fingerprint: 0xcf2e869c
Item Level: 85
Version: Expansion 1.10+
Adds 1 - 3 Fire Damage
7% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items

Stalwart Small Charm of Good Luck
Small Charm
Required Level: 40
Fingerprint: 0xb79e00be
Item Level: 85
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+20 Defense
7% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items


Merc
Code:
Chains of Honor
Archon Plate
DolUmBerIst
Defense: 1866
Durability: 31 of 31
Required Level: 63
Required Strength: 93
Fingerprint: 0xfdef75e2
Item Level: **
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+2 to All Skills
+200% Damage to Demons
+100% Damage to Undead
8% Life stolen per hit
+70% Enhanced Defense
+20 to Strength
Replenish Life +7
All Resistances +65
Damage Reduced by 8%
25% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items
Ethereal
4 Sockets (4 used)
Socketed: Dol Rune
Socketed: Um Rune
Socketed: Ber Rune
Socketed: Ist Rune

Delirium
Bone Visage
LemIstIo
Defense: 424
Durability: 21 of 21
Required Level: 63
Required Strength: 96
Fingerprint: 0x43e5ade0
GUID: 0x4464b1d7 0x957efd7 0x0
Item Level: 87
Version: Expansion
1% Chance to cast level 50 Delirium when struck
10% Chance to cast level 14 Mind Blast when struck
20% Chance to cast level 13 Terror when struck
33% Chance to cast level 18 Confuse on striking
+2 to All Skills
+50% Enhanced Defense
+261 Defense
+10 to Vitality
50% Extra Gold from Monsters
25% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items
Level 17 Attract (55/60 Charges)
Ethereal
3 Sockets (3 used)
Socketed: Lem Rune
Socketed: Ist Rune
Socketed: Io Rune

Insight
Superior Thresher
RalTirTalSol
Two Hand Damage: 72 - 742
Durability: 33 of 33
Required Level: 53
Required Strength: 142
Required Dexterity: 108
Fingerprint: 0x525a6a07
Item Level: 90
Version: Expansion
Level 16 Meditation Aura When Equipped
+35% Faster Cast Rate
252% Enhanced Damage
+9 to Minimum Damage
227% Bonus to Attack Rating
+2 to Attack Rating
Adds 5 - 30 Fire Damage
Adds 75 Poison Damage Over 5 Secs (125 Frames)
+4 to Critical Strike
All Stats +5
+2 to Mana after each Kill
23% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items
Ethereal
4 Sockets (4 used)
Socketed: Ral Rune
Socketed: Tir Rune
Socketed: Tal Rune
Socketed: Sol Rune


If you ask something, this will turn into a better thread!
Also, you could make a better runner than me so I can steal your ideas. :evil:
 

ffs

Well-known member
Mar 13, 2020
241
534
93
Originally posted by Gripphon:

Alright, I can finally provide a partial answer to the question "what is AT barb capable of?"

I timed 50 runs and ended on 4.48 s/bosspack which is comparable to the long-term efficiency of my Pit berserker (whether or not this is long-term AT barb efficiency remains to be seen). Here is the video demonstration of gameplay showing ~4.36 s/bosspack running



Is that it? No, it is not. What is left now to do is calculate ideal AR numbers, calculate when to use Concentrate and when Berserk most efficiently and mostly to improve the gameplay since this barb is kinda "new" while I had thousands of runs of practice with Pit berserker. Maybe even redistribute skill points slightly differently? Who knows.

Where are really the limits of this barb? Can he really challenge the throne of the Pit zerker? We shall see! Let's give this barb some serious practice and then truly answer those questions. AT barb is complicated and there are many things to watch out for with him, especially combining two types of attacks for the best effect.

What I will say for now is this: Pit zerker finally has the first real challenger ever for his MF throne. AT barb is still not explored enough to draw definite conclusions, but the simplicity of playing will always be the Pit zerkers strong advantage. :)
Let's see is there only one true MF king or will there be two of them!

Hopefully this will inspire people to give more serious look at AT barb. For now here are skillpoints and gear I use:
Shako (Cham)
Enigma
2/fcr/MF amulet
Grief + Azur (Ist)
Goldwrap
Chancies
fcr/lifesteal/MF ring
MF/lifeseteal ring
War Travelers

Switch: dual Suicide
Merc: 1.07 Walk (Cham)
Treachery
Insight GP

Skills:
20 BO
20 IF (55%)
1 BC
1 Inc. Speed
1 Resists
20 Concentrate
16 Berserk
20 Sword Mastery

Resits: Poison and Lightning are important
 

ffs

Well-known member
Mar 13, 2020
241
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Originally posted by Gripphon:

Started another project today, namely AT windy. Well I think result is very pleasant so decided to make a video. Compared to the last time I played AT windy, improvement is huge. Video shows windy with 578 MF killing stuff who can actually almost compete with blizzard sorcs. Keyword almost. He can hit ~6-6.5 sec/bosspack which is a bit worse than best blizzard sorcs around.

Perhaps I could remove dual bkwb for MF rings to gain another 70 MF instead without feeling drop in speed, but haven't try that yet. Rolled map few hours ago and did like 100 runs total on it for now. But on 50 test runs map had 6.24 bosspacks average. "Because it is impossibru to roll AT map with over 6 bosses average" - Maareek 20xy-2015! I'm trolling ofc, but it is kinda incredible I rolled such maps for both sorc and windy in a short time.

Secret? I changed two things that actually have impact. First and most important is Inifinity on merc instead of Inisight and Reaper's. I was surprised how strong hurricane actually is when paired with Infinity, it's almost like you have blizzard of your own. Almost again the keyword here.
Second thing is I invested 20 points into Arctic Blast that helps ok against physical immune monsters. With hurricane + that + Infinity it's almost like there are no physical immunities at all! Anyway check video to see for yourself.

 

ffs

Well-known member
Mar 13, 2020
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534
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Originally posted by Gripphon:

SC Singer barb
Category: Pit p1
MF: 670
Item Find: 56%
Average time: 1:02.247
Bosspacks: 404 (8.08)
Efficiency: 4.938 sec/bosspack
Adjeff: 1.751 fabians

Okay, I beat my old record just because of higher MF this time. Beating it in efficiency is too hard. Need luck with bosspacks for that and great motivation from my side. So, for now, this is as good as it gets. Time to respec back to zerker to give him a shot, with singer I pretty much reached peak of my performance. No matter how good I run, I'm in this region of 4.93-5.1 sec/bosspack of efficiency with few inspirational sub 4.8 sec/bosspack moments.

New and improved equipment and build:
Shako (Ist)
Enigma
Suicide Branch (Ist)
IstIstIstIstIstIst Crystal Sword
3 warcry 23 MF amulet
Arachnid Mesh
Magefist Gauntlets
War Traveler 48mf
Rare ring 10fcr 13mf [email protected] 18mana
Rare ring 10fcr 15mf

Inventory: Gheed 40mf, 3x warcry skillers, cube, rest mf charms

Merc: Insight, CoH, Kira's (ias)

Skills:
1 Nat. Resistance
1 Inc.-Speed
20 Find Item
20 War Cry
20 Battle Cry
20 Howl
1 Taunt
16 Battle Orders
1 Battle Command
 

ffs

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Originally posted by Gripphon

Just put something like this in your Arreat's people:
Code:
Blood Talisman
Jewel
Required Level: 37
Item Version: 1.10+ Expansion
Item Level: 86
Fingerprint: 0xf58010c8
+5 to Strength
+27% Enhanced Damage
6% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items
38% Damage to Demons
+41 to Attack Rating against Demons

Easy enough, right?
I will share few interesting ideas what you could do with travbarbs and you decide what do you like or don't.

My personal top priority is to get 105 fcr breakpoint with switch. That can be done on a several ways naturally. Simple and powerful solution is hoto+hoto+arachnid mesh+ fcr ring, that way you also have 56% item find instead of 55%, but 55% is fine.
Second biggest priority is to get 170-186 MF because that is the range where rare rings have highest drop chance. 170-175 is range for rare jewels, so I aimed for 176-186 to have slightly better chance for facets. Also having that MF naturally means you farm facets nicely, and Trav is second best place in the game to farm facets. Having that MF has much higher impact on efficiency of running than squeezing 5 or 10% more damage out of the build, but that's me. Not to mention you can also farm Mara's, Sojs or whatever.

Now my third biggest priority is this: survivability. Put enough points to vitality to have desired number of life. I find that having like 2500 is enough to keep you alive for at least 20k runs if you watch what you are doing. And try not to totally ignore resists, have at least some amount. I personally maxed cold and kept lightning in 50 region. Fire is whatever if you use 1.07 LoH, and with 1.13 LoH you can max it easily.

My next priority in combination to previous one is maxed cold resistance + having half freeze duration on ring slot. That way cold nova explosion from bosses last only 5.5 seconds on you, and their chilling attack lasts like 3 or less. That means you will profit by being chilled to whirl slowly through minions, and at the same time when there is physical immune boss left, chances are you will get chilled cause boss before made cold nova explosion. You can hork 2-3 corpses and then you always kill that phy immune with zerk and you are NOT chilled, so no slow slashing. With HFD mod you effectively achieve to have both chill effect to whirl slowly and cbf effect to zerk in full speed. If you get what I mean by that now. Problem is, finding such rings to cover resists and MF and leech at the same time + fcr + ar is not exactly easy thing to do.

My rings are this so you can see possibilities:
Code:
Plague Master
Ring
Required Level: 48
Item Version: 1.10+ Expansion
Item Level: 96
Fingerprint: 0x70992165
Fire Resist +15%
Lightning Resist +9%
Cold Resist +9%
Poison Resist +9%
4% Life stolen per hit
5% Mana stolen per hit
8% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items
10% Faster Cast Rate

Viper Band
Ring
Required Level: 44
Item Version: 1.10+ Expansion
Item Level: 92
Fingerprint: 0x5f3b1f93
+3 to Strength
+11 to Life
+46 to Mana
+114 to Attack Rating
Cold Resist +26%
3% Life stolen per hit
Half Freeze Duration

My next priority is to have fastest zerking. Now notice there is one cheap trick here. HLW has 20 ias and LoH gloves have another 20, right? If you happen to use berserker axe, notice that you need 75 ias total for 10 frame zerking, instead of 11 frames you would have otherwise. This means your Grief BA needs 35+ IAS on primary slot! 34 ias gets you fastest ww breakpoint, but not the fastest zerk breakpoint. With phase blade your zerk will be 9 frames if not chilled so thats it, no cheap tricks there.

Next priority is to have enough mana to be able to hork councils, then tele back to act 4. I find that anything over 350 is great so you don't drink mana potions or any potions because of mana missing at all. Why act 4 with barb? Because according to my testings, using act 4 makes for like 2 seconds faster runs than if I run through town in act 3. It seems to me both Maareek and Frozzzen came to same conclusion after testing.

Next priority is AR. Notice that Grief has ignore target defense? That means against 8 out of 11 minions having AR is useless. I calculated that optimal AR to aim for is between 4500 and 5000, depending on your damage output. I personally have like 4650 total. In combination with rings and charms, pump dexterity to have that much AR. Pump vitality to have desired amount of HP as per survivability priority, and rest put into strength to rise your damage output.

Last priority is damage cause damage is easy to come up with, at least if you use Griefs. Use LoH gloves etcetc. Notice that War Travelers and Gore Riders offer similar damage output (to me Travelers offer more if I don't include crushing blow on Riders) + Travelers give you much wanted MF! Also you could use gheed in inventory instead of 1 maxer cause MF>damage on travbarb (according to my opinion that is), but I don't use it cause in combo of that jewel posted and rings + 50 mf travelers + few MF charms I have desired target of 176-186.

Now combine all those priorities and you have idea what my travbarb looks like.


So overall, depending on your needs and goals, I'd say some jewel that rises damage is best to put in Arreat because MF you can come up with in other slots. If you cannot and wanna use Rider's cause you believe they are super godly, then either Ist and Ptopaz in Arreat is by far best option (again, I value MF>damage). If you however don't care about MF at all and think Enigma is good enough for you, then go damage-damage-damage as Froz would say. What jewel is best is up to you to calculate using formulas, but I'd say high Ed% is best option.

Now choose your priorities and have fun building your barbs.
 

ffs

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Originally posted by Grippon:

Here are some possibilities for sorc gear. All sorcs want to aim for 105 fcr and safe running. Safe running include few things: map (won't cover it now), lightning resist and good fire resist/absorb. Cold is optional. Also I will suggest CoH for all sorcs, but if someone doesn't have it, then Vipermagi or 1.07 Ark work ok. Also if someone has beta BKWB, use it!

Maximum damage: assumes perfect gear and 6 skillers
Minimum damage: assumes worst roll gear and 5 skillers + Gheed
No usage of BC assumed for fastest running possible (it only slows you down really)

Hoto + damage approach
Head: NMW + facet
Body: CoH
Shield: Spirit
Weapon: Hoto
Belt: Snowclash
Rings: dual SoJ
Gloves: Trang Claws
Amulet: 2/10
Boots: whatever

Minimum damage: 8156 (possible 100+ MF)
Maximum damage: 8976

Hoto + safety approach
Head: Shako + facet
Body: CoH
Shield: Spirit
Weapon: Hoto
Belt: Arachnid Mesh
Rings: SoJ + Wisp (lite absorb + MF)
Gloves: Hellmouth
Amulet: 2/10
Boots: whatever

Minimum damage: 6894
Maximum damage: 7303

Fathom + damage approach
Head: NMW + facet
Body: CoH
Shield: Spirit
Weapon: Fathom + facet
Belt: Arachnid Mesh
Rings: SoJ + SoJ
Gloves: Trang Claws
Amulet: 2/10
Boots: whatever

Minimum damage: 9112
Maximum damage: 10827

Fathom + safety approach
Head: 2/20 circlet + facet
Body: CoH
Shield: Spirit
Weapon: Fathom + facet
Belt: Arachnid Mesh
Rings: Wisp + SoJ
Gloves: Hellmouth
Amulet: 2/10
Boots: whatever

Minimum damage: 8099
Maximum damage: 9738

Fathom + balanced MF approach
Head: Shako + facet
Body: CoH
Shield: Spirit
Weapon: Fathom + Ist
Belt: Arachnid Mesh
Rings: SoJ + Wisp (lite absorb and MF)
Gloves: Trang Claws
Amulet: 2/10
Boots: War Travelers

Inventory: Gheed
Minimum damage: 7898
Maximum damage: 9036
MF: ~200

Other options:
Dwarf Star ofc, but I find it less desirable when Hellmouth is available.
Shako in safety mode for more mana: then you would need Dwarf Star ring since Hellmouth is not an option unless you drop fcr 1 frame
Snowclash in some Fathom damage variants, I don't like it, but you can use it
 

ffs

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Originally posted by Gripphon:

[highlight]Travincal MF sorceress[/highlight]

I slightly changed gear again on a sorc and managed to get higher MF breakpoint and better survivability overall. Now I can't find any more upgrades for this approach except to pump more MF and reduce damage.

Shako (Ist)
Tal's amulet
Tal's armor (Ist)
Tal's belt
Spirit
Fathom with facet
Trang Claws gloves
War Travelers (50MF)
10 fcr/15MF/28life/[email protected] ring
20/19MF Wisp Projector

Inventory: 40MF Gheed, 7x skillers (use less if picking more items, I currently pick only jewels, rings and amulets plus useful unique items which I mule off by picking item and doing s/e)
Small charms with MF and resists

Skills are hardcoded into my build to suit the needs of goldfind sorc
20 Blizzard and all preq
9 Static Field (nice aim is 14 yards)
13 Cold Mastery
1 Warmth, Teleport, Telekinesis
Optional: 1 in some armor

Merc: eth Steel Shade (Cham), eth Fortitude, Infinity

Blizzard damage: ~8330
MF: 445
Resistances: 150 cold, 167 fire, 201 lightning

Running technique:
Blizzard, spam Static 4-5 times, Blizzard, then spamming Spike or Blast. Third Blizzard if needed, although most of the time everything is dead within few Blasts.

Potential upgrade is in replacing skillers with MF small charms since damage is of low relevance for Travincal, however I'm lazy to check where exactly starts the lower limit of damage when it will actually matter. I assume upgrade would be to use Ist Fathom and remove few skillers for 7MF charms. Perhaps players in the future will explore more into this option. I do think damage is of low relevance once she reaches like 6.5k or whatever, although it is still of some relevance for minor upgrade in killing speed.


[highlight]Why MF?[/highlight]

Travincal is good source of jewelry, good amount of unique items like Titan's Revenge (you do want ethereal) and many more. Most notable item is Rainbow Facet, Travincal is the best place in the game to farm those apart from Mephisto who is only for building basic gear up. So, my logic is why not use this fact to the fullest? Potential drawback is this sorc has lower damage, however comparing this sorc with the one I did best set ever with 9.7k Blizzard damage, they are similarly fast. So, unless player decides to go full damage setup to actually gain 1 second or whatever of running time, having some MF (ideally 170+) does pay better than not having it.
 

ffs

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Originally posted by Gripphon:

Respeced to poisonnec. He is slighty stronger than boner, and also more relaxing to play. Overall nec turned to be much better Travincal farmer than I expected.



What I tested:

Infinity vs Insight
Result: very similar, practically no difference, though with Infinity it is easier to spot that physical immune boss there, but with Insight merc does give corpse slightly faster. Nothing to win over Infinity though. I do use Infinity, but Insight is just so good and easy to use...

Iron Golem reliable?
Result: he didn't die in 200 runs I tested, so... once you max golem mastery, he is decent tank. Only thing you have to watch out for are fanaticism + migth packs. I made mine from IK maul.

[highlight]Gear used:[/highlight]
1.13 Shako (Cham)
Web + facet
The Rising Sun
Enigma
Spirit
Arachnid
Trang Claws
fcr mpk from 1.07
Wisp projector
resist/frw/MF boots

5 skillers
Merc: Infinity + CoH + Steelshade (Cham)

Why Cham Shako? Because it is annoying to be slowed by chilling effect when you go back and run toward portal. Necro does not have telekinesis to solve that problem. So, Cham speeds you up more than facet. Actually facet is irrelevant here.

Long term average:
I expect easy sub 21s running is possible

Sub 20s possible?
On a short run, yes. For anything else I'd have to make Insight golem from eth elite polearm to see what kind of advantage does it give. Perhaps I can test that too these days.

EDIT
Curse used is Amplify, NOT Lower Resist!
 

ffs

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Originally posted by Gripphon

This video is for everyone who want to see Travincal dudez with a boner.

Not really optimized playing style since idea of boner is to cast spears at minion which is attacked by a merc to get corpse faster. But, upon trying to really aim like that, it didn't really speed me up by any meaningful margin... I suppose reason is, by nailing minion at random like this, 1/3 of the time you do nail minion that gets attacked by a merc, and if you nail the wrong one, upon switching spear to the attacked one you do get corpse faster, but chain stops because after 1 CE other minions do not have low enough life yet, they should be nailed by merc further to get a second corpse. This is obviously not a problem if you manage to nail the attacked minion right away. By doing this random target and simply casting, my idea is to get minion down to 50% hp and by then merc kills his minion. Upon starting CE this way, chain usually does not stop at all since second minion has low enough HP to be killed by CE-ing the first minion. Also, that playing style is much simpler than constantly looking to aim toward the right target with similarlish runtimes anyway.

Here is a video demonstration of ~21.5 s p3 running with Travincal boner. Managed to do 50 runs in sub 22s average, but problem is one boss turns stone skin aka physically immune, and he is too tough to be killed with spear or CE, so you skip 1 minion like once in 5 runs or so. Still, this is quite irrelevant anyway. Tests were done on a sorc's map.


Skills:
1 Amplify
1 Clay Golem
1 Golem Mastery
1 Summon resistances or whatever it is called
1 Bone Armor
20 all relevant skills to pump Bone Spear to maximum
2 CE (had 1 extra skill point)

Gear:
2/20/Topaz circlet
2/10/[email protected] amulet
Enigma
Hoto
Spirit
Arach
Hellmouth gloves (fire absorb)
beta bkwb + Wisp projector rings
30frw/high lite/cold/fire res boots with 10 MF

5 skillers
3x 7mf SC, 2x life res SC
Total MF: 170 (cool!)

Merc:
1.07 eth GPA Insight
eth CoH
eth Steelshade (Cham)


I assume poison variant should do similarly fast, but I will see that upon test.
 

ffs

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Originally posted by Onderduiker:

Re: Fire damage of hydras from Council?

Only Act bosses (in all their incarnations) apply 200% damage to hirelings and 400% damage to pets: damage from all other boss, Super Unique, Unique and Champion monsters isn't increased, so Council Member Hydra damage isn't increased. However, for some reason it is decreased against players because the PvP penalty (*0.17) is applied to their damage.

Super Unique Council Members and any minions use the following level Hydra in each difficulty level:

Code:
COUNCIL MEMBER         NORMAL      NIGHTMARE   HELL
--------------------------------------------------------
1 Ismail Vilehand              2           5           9
1 Toorc Icefist                2           5           9
--------------------------------------------------------
2 Geleb Flamefinger            3           6          10
2 Wyand Voidbringer            3           6          10
--------------------------------------------------------
3 Maffer Dragonhand            4           7          11
3 Bremm Sparkfist              4           7          11
--------------------------------------------------------
  Bartuc the Bloody            4           7          11
Hydra used is the Sorceress skill, so the following base fire damage is applied per fire bolt:

Code:
COUNCIL MEMBER         NORMAL      NIGHTMARE   HELL
----------------------------------------------------------
1 Ismail Vilehand      19.5-26     36  -45.5    60  - 73.5
1 Toorc Icefist        19.5-26     36  -45.5    60  - 73.5
----------------------------------------------------------
2 Geleb Flamefinger    25  -32.5   41.5-52      67.5- 82
2 Wyand Voidbringer    25  -32.5   41.5-52      67.5- 82
----------------------------------------------------------
3 Maffer Dragonhand    30.5-39     47  -58.5    75  - 90.5
3 Bremm Sparkfist      30.5-39     47  -58.5    75  - 90.5
Council Members also get +% Fire Skill Damage in Nightmare and Hell as a hidden bonus:

Code:
COUNCIL MEMBER         NORMAL      NIGHTMARE   HELL
----------------------------------------------------------
Act 3                          0          40           100
Act 5                          0          60           120
This results in the following approximate fire damage being applied to hirelings and pets by each fire bolt:

Code:
COUNCIL MEMBER         NORMAL      NIGHTMARE   HELL
----------------------------------------------------------
1 Ismail Vilehand      19.5-26     50.4-45.5   120  -147
1 Toorc Icefist        19.5-26     50.4-45.5   120  -147
----------------------------------------------------------
2 Geleb Flamefinger    25  -32.5   58.1-72.8   135  -164
2 Wyand Voidbringer    25  -32.5   58.1-72.8   135  -164
----------------------------------------------------------
3 Maffer Dragonhand    30.5-39     65.8-81.9   150  -181
3 Bremm Sparkfist      30.5-39     65.8-81.9   150  -181
----------------------------------------------------------
  Bartuc the Bloody    30.5-39     75.2-93.6   165  -199.1
Critical hits don't apply to this damage.
 

ffs

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Originally posted by Gripphon:

[highlight]Comparing player settings[/highlight]

Here is data required to compare cows on different players settings.

Drop chance on different players count

p7: 85.71%
p5: 75.95%
p3: 61.22%
p1: 37.50%

Comparing average runtime in between p.count can tell us what is better to hit. That way it was determined p3 Travincal offers fastest farming possible, and not p5 or p7.

p5 > p7
If avg.time on p7 / avg time on p5 is higher than 1.12851
or, written like
T7/T5 > 1.12851

Q: I have average runtime on p7 equal to 5 mins. How fast I must be on p5 to beat p7 in farming speed?
A: 5min = 300s
avg.time on p7 / 1.12851 = 300s / 1.12851 = 266s
If you can nail cows on p5 under 4 min 26s, you are more efficient than running cows on p7 with 300s average time.

p3 > p5
T5/T3 > 1.24061

p3 > p7
T7/T3 > 1.40003

There is no point doing p1, it has no chance to be most efficient setting. I do encourage you to try different player settings to see where the money is.


[highlight]Scouting items and cluttering problem[/highlight]

There are few tricks how to minimize chance to miss something. It is actually mixure of techniques done while running LK and while running Travincal with barb.

1) Hold alt while killing
Might be annoying to do with some characters, but at least check frequently what dropped.

2) Check drops from right and bottom side of a killing site
Items tend to clutter to the right in diablo. To properly check what dropped, tele to the bottom right side to check drops. Checking from anywhere else is not good enough, not on cow level where items clutter big time. This kind of checking is not required if you don't kill massive amount of cows at the same spot, but is still advisable to at least tele there and fast check did something drop.

3) Perform walking technique
Similar to what Travincal barbs do, tele to the point explained under 2) and perform fast walk to see items overlap and check for orange flashes for runes. Perhaps not required all the time, only when you kill massive amount of cows at the same spot.

4) Check for orange flashes
Connected to both 1) and 3), runes tend to show when they drop even when they get cluttered similar as when you run LK.

5) Preferably kill standing bottom right from cows (lower priority)
Not that important and hard to do all the time, but if you can, do the killing that way to have higher chance of spotting orange flashes and see more drops. If you don't do the killing this way, make sure to perform checking explained under 2) and 3) afterwards.


Have fun testing.
 

ffs

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Originally posted by me:

Tried a bunch of different setups for AS Javazon. Some information in spoilers for those interested:

1. 99 FCR CtA switch
Setup:
Griffon (Cham)
Head Hunter's Glory (5/5 facet, 5/4 facet, 15 IAS/[email protected] jewel)
Razortail
Rare rings with FCR/ML/LL each
Silkweave
Titan's
3/20 gloves
2/20 craft amulet

CtA/35 Spirit switch
Merc: Infinity/Fortitude/Andy's

This is by now my standard Javazon setup, built around the 2/20 amulet. Love it. Runs in the vid I posted above earlier are with this gear, so that was the benchmark for me.

Initial runs with this setup were around ~55s average.

2. 99 FCR Wizzy switch
Setup:
Griffon (15 IAS/3 MPK jewel)
Monarch socketed with four facets (18/18)
Razortail
Ravenfrost
Rare ring with FCR/ML/LL (SoJ is probably be better, didn't try yet)
Silkweave
Titan's
3/20 gloves

The idea was to again have 99 FCR on switch but with maximum firepower on Javelin switch.

Also I lucked a 2/20 amulet which probably not that many have, so the 50% FCR weapon is the other and much more common/easy to achieve option to get 99% FCR on switch.

Tried with two amulets, HLW for 55% IAS, and +2/8% ML/@ craft. In terms of run times it didn't seem to make a difference (yet again).

As expected, the extra life from CtA was not required, but without it I had to take some more care with my mana, potting here and there and picking up more pots also. In the end, that seemed to make it a little bit slower at 1m to 1m5s. But this could very well be due to the small samples. Maybe SoJ makes the difference, didn't try with it yet.

But I don't see any reason why this should be slower than setup #1.

3. 68 FCR Javelin switch (Lidless Wall)
Setup:
Griffon (15 IAS/3 MPK jewel)
Lidless Wall (5/5 facet)
Razortail
Ravenfrost
Rare ring with FCR/ML/LL
Silkweave
Titan's
3/20 gloves
2/20 craft amulet

CtA switch

This worked well, run times around 1m to 1m10s.

4. 68 FCR Javelin switch (Spirit)
Setup:
Griffon (15 IAS/3 MPK jewel)
Spirit
Razortail
Ravenfrost
Rare ring with FCR/ML/LL
Silkweave
Titan's
3/20 gloves
+2/8ML/@ craft amulet or HLW (prefer the former)

Same as above, but difference here is that Lidless is swapped for Spirit and instead of the 2/20 using another ammy with useful stats (+2/ML or HLW in my case). Run times were similar to the Lidless Wall setup. The latter has MPK and a little bit more damage due to the facet, but with a ML amulet swapped in, it pretty much felt exactly the same.

Can definitely recommend this approach. As mentioned above, apart from Griffon's and Enigma, the rest of the gear is rather straight-forward and can largely be substituted with other stuff.

5. 99 FCR Javelin switch (Spirit)
Setup:
Griffon (Cham)
Spirit
Razortail
Rare rings with FCR/ML/LL each
Silkweave
Titan's
3/20 gloves
2/20 craft amulet
CtA switch

This does not hit the 32% IAS BP. Yet it was not too bad, at around 1m to 1m10s.

6. 99 FCR Javelin switch (Lidless Wall)
Setup:
Griffon (Cham)
Lidless Wall (5/5 facet)
Arachnid Mesh
Rare rings each with FCR/ML/LL
Silkweave
Titan's
3/20 gloves
2/20 craft amulet
CtA switch

I figured since ghosts are the main target and die quickly, maybe an exception to the "Razortail must be used, no exceptions" rule can be made. Of course I was wrong, and could have known so, as the rule specifically states no exceptions. ;)

It was fun, but the lack of Pierce was felt. The few runs I did where around 1m10 to 1m15s. Maybe this could work with max Pierce? I doubt it works better than the above, but could be worth a try.

I only compared run times for this, didn't feel like counting thousands of monsters. :) Something to keep in mind for the setups with lower damage that likely kill fewer monsters in the relevant amount of time.

Conclusions:
Except for the last one, all of these work very well. Can definitely recommend #4 as standard approach with (relatively) little gear requirements. So far, setup #1 is the only one I averaged under 1m runs with. But that doesn't say that much, given the very small samples and overall lack of practice with the different setups on my end. Same for the indication that 99% FCR switch seems to be a tiny bit faster than teleporting on Javelin switch in my case.
 

ffs

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Originally posted by me:

Just going to use this thread for some more considerations regarding cow running. :p In the meantime I included a 5/5 facet in the circlet and wondered about including more facets overall. @Gripphon mentioned the same idea in the RFL R2 thread. I had a 6-facet CS and a 4-facet Monarch that I used on a Fissure Druid available to do some number crunching with. Also I never tried Hoto + Phoenix on main switch. (I think @NanoMist ran with Phoenix main switch on his K/T build, but during RFL R1 only used it on CtA switch for the FB build right?)

So with the help of the Merc damage calc I compared several setups to find out what is the combined DPS of both Assassin and Merc. Details for those interested:
Merc DPS with/without Beast (Infinity eth CA, Forti, Andy IAS/28 ED)
with lvl 9 Fanaticism from Beast: 14768 avg
without Beast: 11703 avg

(I took the setup of my Merc but pretended he was lvl 95 for max aura (triggered))

Phoenix & Beast setup:
FB: 4309 average
Cow FR: -68
4309 * 1.68 = 7239.12 avg per FB
DPS with last BP: 20052.3624
Merc DPS: 14768
Together: 34820.3624

(5/5 facet in circlet)

Phoenix & +25/-27 Phase Blade
(Tested with +25/-22 Crystal Sword but assuming the above in PB)
:
FB 5335 average
Cow FR: -95
5335 * 1.95 = 10403.25 per FB
DPS with last BP: 28817.0025
Merc DPS: 11703
Together: 40520.0025

+25/-27 Facet Crystal Sword (20 IAS needed for last BP):
-1 skill (dropping to 65 FCR):
5019 average, *1.95 = 9787.05, DPS = 27110.1285, + Merc = 38813.1285 combined DPS

-2 skills (to stay at 102 FCR):
4703.5 average, *1.95 = 9171.825, DPS = 25405.95525, + Merc = 37108.95525 combined DPS

Beast + 4-facet +20/-18 Monarch:
FB avg 5129.5
Cow FR: -59 => 8155.905
DPS: 22591.85685
+Merc: 37261.85685 combined DPS

6-facet PB + 4-facet +20/-18 Monarch:
FB avg 6155.5
Cow FR: -85 => 11387.675
DPS: 31543.85975
+ Merc: 43246.85975 combined DPS

6-facet PB + Spirit:
FB avg 5967
Cow FR: -67 => 9964.89
DPS: 27602.7453
+ Merc: 39305.7453 combined DPS

Hoto & Phoenix:
FB: 5074.5 average
Cow FR: -68
5074.5 * 1.68 = 8525.16 avg per FB
DPS: 23614.6932
+ Merc: 35317.6932

Hoto & +20/-18 Monarch:
FB: 6041 average
Cow FR: -58
6041 * 1.58 = 9544.78 avg per FB
DPS: 26439.0406
+ Merc: 38142.0406

...and Hoto/Spirit:
FB: 5585 average
Cow FR: -40
5585 * 1.4 = 7819 avg per FB
DPS: 21658.63
+ Merc: 33361.63

Short version – combined DPS (Merc + FB) for the duration of spamming FB:
  • Hoto/Spirit: 33361
  • Hoto/Phoenix: 35317
  • Hoto/4 facet shield: 38142
  • Beast/Phoenix: 34820
  • Beast/4 facet shield: 37261
  • 6 facet PB/Phoenix: 40520
  • 6 facet PB/4 facet shield: 43246
  • 6 facet PB/Spirit: 39305
These are just numbers, haven't tested yet how the setups actually compare in-game. Also I trust that the Merc damage calc delivers correct numbers, I relied on that. But I was very surprised. If this is correct, then apparently the run times above are not so much down to the setup – but rather to mad skills :p – because almost all other options are better than Beast/Phoenix. That is if those numbers are correct and I didn't make any major mistakes in getting them.

Some things to note: DS (corpse explosion) damage is not affected by fire facets/Phoenix, and in general this is just for the time span between laying DS traps and starting to spam FB until corpses start to drop. So the impact of the different setups on overall clear speed is likely not very big. I used (or simulated) facets with above average, but not perfect rolls. I figured this is realistic anyway, and the + fire damage part was the only option for me to get FB damage numbers, as my faceted sword/shield had these stats.

The Phoenix + 6-facet PB variant seems to be the best option overall to me, with Spirit on CtA switch. (Could also use shields the other way around, but I really like Phoenix on main switch a lot by now.) It provides near-highest damage and allows the inclusion of both Redemption and 102 FCR teleport. Another improvement would be a trap 3/20 circlet, ideally with 2 facets. I have one but it only got one socket from Larzuk...

Well, my 6-facet sword is a CS, but I need it in a PB. Otherwise I'd have to drop some + skills in order to stay at last trap laying BP.... Let's hope Trav delivers 2-3 good facets and then do some in-game testing. :D

(Not up to date as Beast seemed better in the end)
 

ffs

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Mar 13, 2020
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Originally posted by @Nano

Interesting discussion about Assassin running.. I've been working on a Dragon Tail/DS Cow runner the past few days, what timing.


20 Dragon Tail
20 Tiger Strike
20 Death Sentry
18 Fire Blast
16 or 7 Burst of Speed (after +skills)
1 Mind Blast
Remainder in Lightning Sentry

18 Fire Blast provides 6 more shots on DS for a total of 11 shots. During my test runs, I don't remember hearing any traps break, so less shots should be fine.

Eth Lacerator
Enigma
Phoenix
Griffon's (15 IAS)
2/10 FCR Ammy
Raven Frost
10 FCR/AR/Life/Mana Ring
3 MA 20 IAS Gloves
Arachnid Mesh
Shadow Dancer
7x MA GCs

Merc(Defiance): Infinity/Fortitude/Andy

I went for the 65 FCR breakpoint on main switch. I did not have a 2/15+ FCR Ammy, otherwise I would have went with a 2/20 or 3/20 circlet instead of Griffon's. With 35 off-weapon IAS, level 16 BoS is required for 7 FPA Dragon Tail. An alternative option would be to use fire facet(s) in the helm, leaving 20 off-weapon IAS and a level 7 BoS for 8 FPA Dragon Tail. The Griffon's I borrowed from my Zon already had the IAS jewel, so I went with that option. A 2/17+ FCR Ammy would allow for 102 FCR breakpoint on CTA switch.

Defiance Merc is all about survival when facing cows in melee. Other defensive skills such as Holy Freeze or Confuse just causes issues with herding. The built-in knockback feature in DTail may cause issues with chaining DTail, but it's a nice defensive feature. It's a bit tough in the beginning of the Cow run if Rakanishu curses you, I use Mind Blast to help out.

Due to DTail's fire damage scaling off of the physical damage, Lacerator was much needed for the Amp. The hit causes monster to flee isn't as annoying as I thought it'd be when charging up tiger strike. Phoenix also plays a big part: Massive ED boost to the physical damage base, -EFR for the fire splash damage, and Redemption for life & mana recovery.

The biggest question mark I had going into testing was the corpse struggle between Redemption and Death Sentry. There's enough time between aura 'pulses' for the DS to sneak in a few shots most of the time. Dragon Tail also drops enough corpses (5-10?) that this isn't much of an issue. I drop at least 3 DS, up to 5 if cows are still moving.

I ran on P5 for more comfortable running- P7 is noticeably harder and I'm not certain if P7 running is more efficient. Dragon Tail with 3 TS charges will always one-shot an Amp'd Cow. Fortunately, Amp comes quick most of the time. The LCS damage is 22K-35K, but when enemy resistances (-63% FR & -50% DR) are factored in, this damage becomes 54K-86K.

Not sure if I'll run this build in the RFL, but it was fun theorycrafting and testing this build for sure. Pure caster builds are still more relaxing though.
 

ffs

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Originally posted by Gripphon:

Where to start. Right, at the beginning would be logical.

Cows are awesome. The end. On a more serious note, I do enjoy cows more than Travincal. They are less predictable and every run is slightly different while at Travincal every run is the same, so I didn't have too much trouble to kill cows in two sets. Besides, killing so many cows is kind of cool. Moo Moo.

As I ran I kept track of total number of runes found to answer the eternal question: how many cows are on a cow level? My necro can answer it due to awesome map I have where red portal spawns inside Cow King's house meaning there will be no other cows inside and I can kill every cow on the cow level if I want to. Idea is I know odds to find ANY rune is 1/244.5, so if I count runes found across hundreds of runs it will allow me to estimate number of cows on the level. I also tested Fissure druid and Blova. Warning: gameplay videos I posted have bad music, so cover your ears!

[highlight]FIRST SET[/highlight]
It was done with necromancer, PNova variation.

Character: necro PNova
GEAR:
Griffon's with facet
2/17 amulet
Enigma
Web with facet
Spirit
Arach belt
Trang gloves
beta BKWB
10fcr 35 mpk 1.07 ring
Silkweave boots

+5 skillers

Merc: Infinity, Fortitude, Andy
Iron Golem: made out of random item

Better option is 2/20 circlet with 2/20 amulet, but I have 1/20 amulet as best so I went this way. As for mpk, I tested necro doesn't need 1.07 mpk ring, what he has in 1.14 is enough. On top of it jewel with 3 mpk can be socketed in helm to help more if needed.

Skills:
20 Amplify damage
1 Revive
1 Iron Golem
1 Bone Armor
20 Corpse Explosion
20 PNova
Rest into synergies for PNova


Player settings: p5
Total runs done: 494 (5 abandoned due to death don't count)
Average time: ~2:25-2:26
Runes found in 300 runs: 579
Estimated cows killed per run: ~467
Cows killed every minute: ~193

These were fullish clears with some leftovers. I'd conclude there are at average ~500 cows on a cow level.

Qualifiers: 21
Cham, Lo, 2x Sur, Vex, 3x Ohm, 2x Ist, 3x Gul, 4x Um, Mal, 3x Pul

Haulpic:


Overall this was average set, number of qualifiers is slightly above average, but I believe quality is spot on or right around expectations. Set lacks two Ber/Jah/Cham combination, but also has Cham which does pump score up significantly. Number of 10+ pointers is above average though doesn't help for top 5 points. Solid set definitely.


[highlight]SECOND SET[/highlight]
Here I tested Fissure druid and Blova, but also used necro for a while mixing all 3 characters together.

Character: Fissure druid
GEAR:
Ravenlore with facet
2/20 amulet
Enigma
Hoto
Phoenix
Arach belt
Magefist gloves
2x beta BKWB
Silkweave boots

+5 skillers

Merc: Infinity, Fortitude, Andy

Skills:
1 Oak Sage
Max Fissure + synergies
Max Armageddon
Rest into Boulder


Player settings: p5
Runs done: 56
Runes found: 93
Cows killed per run average: 406
Avg time: 2:44
Cows killed per minute: ~148

With more tests I got him to ~140 cows per minute


Character: Blova
GEAR:
Griffon's with lite facet
Enigma (for lpk)
2/10 amulet
Eschuta's Temper with lite facet
Spirit
Arach
10/35mpk ring
beta BKWB
Silkweave

+5 lite skillers

Merc: Infinity, Fortitude, Andy

Skills:
1 Warmth
1 Telekinesis
X Static to reach ~24 area
20 Nova
20 Lightning Mastery
1 Cold Armor
20 Blizzard
1 Cold Mastery
Rest into Blizzard synergies


Players settings: p5

Runs done: 150
Runes found: 243
Avg. time: 136.24 s
Cows killed per run: 396
Cows killed per minute: 174.4

Qualifiers: 13
Cham, Sur, Ohm, 3x Ist, Gul, 3x Um, 3x Pul



This set was below average in both number and quality of qualifiers.


Notable finds across two sets:
Coral Small Charm of Vita
Small Charm
Required Level: 39
Fingerprint: 0x2ac63c18
Item Level: 81
Version: Expansion 1.10+
Unidentified
+20 to Life
Lightning Resist +8%

Jade Small Charm of Good Luck
Small Charm
Required Level: 33
Fingerprint: 0x8077a1a3
Item Level: 81
Version: Expansion 1.10+
Unidentified
Poison Resist +8%
7% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items

Sapphire Small Charm of Sustenance
Small Charm
Required Level: 32
Fingerprint: 0xd114e448
Item Level: 81
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+15 to Life
Cold Resist +10%

Ruby Jewel of Fervor
Jewel
Required Level: 31
Fingerprint: 0xbbcf91cd
Item Level: 81
Version: Expansion 1.10+
Unidentified
+15% Increased Attack Speed
Fire Resist +29%

Diamond Jewel of Fervor
Jewel
Required Level: 31
Fingerprint: 0x739962a
Item Level: 81
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+15% Increased Attack Speed
+40% Damage to Demons
+38 to Attack Rating against Demons

Sapphire Small Charm of Sustenance
Small Charm
Required Level: 32
Fingerprint: 0x4d42884f
Item Level: 81
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+12 to Life
Cold Resist +10%

The Stone of Jordan
Ring
Required Level: 29
Fingerprint: 0x61878364
Item Level: 84
Version: Expansion 1.10+
Unidentified
+1 to All Skills
Adds 1 - 12 Lightning Damage
+20 to Mana
Increase Maximum Mana 25%

Jade Jewel of Truth
Jewel
Required Level: 36
Fingerprint: 0xecb1c728
Item Level: 81
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+7% Faster Hit Recovery
Poison Resist +27%

Cow King's parts: 3 boots, 7 armors, 4 hats


[highlight]FINAL WORDS[/highlight]

It has been a pleasure trolling you all and talking with ya. Solid round overall. Cows are awesome. Moo Moo.
 

ffs

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Mar 13, 2020
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Originally posted by me:

Lot's of options. Here's my old post about AS Java setups and gameplay video from RFL 2018. Back then I had just done a major overhaul to my Javazon setup, using this gear:

Griffon's 'Cham'
2/20 amulet
3/20 gloves
HHG with 2x RBF and 1x IAS
Enigma
Titan's
2x FCR + double leech rings
Razor
Silkweave

CtA/35 Spirit

Might Merc with Infinity, ebug Fortitude, Andy's with IAS/FR

Build is all-out LF + synergies.

Result is 99 FCR on CtA switch, and 35 IAS high damage from faceted shield on Titan's switch. CNBF is necessary and provided via Cham'ed Griffon's, since the use of 2x FCR rings means no Raven.

For general purposes, this remains the best overall Java setup I've played (or seen, honestly – #patonmyback ;)). But when revisiting AS the other day I realized that such damage output was not necessary there. So this is the gear I plan to go with, assuming I do run AS in round 3:

Griffon's with IAS/MPK jewel
Enigma
2/20 amulet
3/20 gloves
35 Spirit (main switch)
Raven
SoJ
Titan's
Arachnid Mesh
Silkweave

Switch: CtA/any Spirit

Same Merc as above.

Max Pierce, otherwise same build.

In the Java setups post linked above, I noted the possibility of this, but didn't test it back then. The idea is that, as opposed to e.g. Cow running, in AS you switch super often between teleporting and throwing. So I figured it could be worth teleporting on main switch with 99 FCR (because switching weapons is a bit slower than switching skills). The difficulty is to include CNBF while staying at 99 FCR and 35 IAS, because shield must be Spirit and Griffon socket must be IAS for this. Best solution I found was to drop one LF synergy, max Pierce instead, and replace Razortail with Arach (providing the FCR required when not using 2x FCR rings). It works extremely well, initial runs were around ~55 seconds.

As for budget, without Griffon's I think 99 FCR impossible to do in a sensible way, but otherwise the same thing can be done with standard 68 FCR instead. Couple of budget suggestions:

Option 1 (Arach, Pierce skilled):
Titan's
Enigma
35 Spirit
3/20 or 2/20 IAS gloves
2/20 FCR circlet (IAS + ideally MPK)
+2/something amulet or HLW
Raven
SoJ
Silkweave
Arachnid Mesh

This does not require very good FCR gear either. I like the HLW option for 55 IAS in this case to improve DPS a little.

Option 2 (Full LF synergies + Razor + FCR gear):
Titan's
Enigma
35 Spirit
3/20 or 2/20 IAS gloves
2/20 FCR circlet (IAS + ideally MPK)
+2/FCR amulet*
FCR/ML ring*

Raven
Silkweave
Razortail

* If you can get the 13 FCR required from the amulet it is enough to hit 68 FCR, then SoJ can be used instead of FCR ring.

Insight Merc works fine, Infinity is only a small advantage.

If a player doesn't have a suitable 20 FCR circlet, another possibility is to mix the above approaches and use Arach + FCR jewelry (maxing Pierce again) e.g. with Shako or something.


You do go back almost all the way to the WP. Yes you can also go the Warriv -> A1 route, but again from what I've seen it is not faster.

No, in fact I don't check the dead end whether or not the Summoner is there. Don't like the backtracking. Only thing I do is peak into the middle corridor (from bottom/right side to see drops better) and throw LF if ghosts are there.
 

ffs

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Mar 13, 2020
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Originally posted by Gripphon:

I'd need to do some practice with java since amount of kills above abyss is too huge for my taste, I'm used to fireball sorc who can control her damage output better, java will have ghosts die in the wrong places... but that can be reduced and playing improved. Perhaps adding middle corridor might be worth it as well. My strategy was to go rambo kill on ghosts and, unlike sorc, I think it is beneficial with java to actually leave lonely ghosts behind and move forward. Sorc can snipe them better while java is fine with more leftovers since she can focus down bigger groups instantly.

I'll throw the javelin idea here and let you guys test whether or not it has potential. Prepare 3-4 javelin backup weapons since this one will get out of firepower more quickly. I don't know can she outperform Infinity variation or not though. I have no idea how efficient this running really is in comparison since I didn't do analysis nor try Infinity variation at all. Leaving that to whoever wants to test. Gear at the end of the video.

99 fcr
max attack speed
87 FHR
Power level: over 9000