Travincal Running WW Barb Mini-Guide

[Pyrohemia1]

Re: Travincal Running WW Barb Mini-Guide

What Beast's fanaticism is good for is berserking the council member who regularly spawns physical immune. Fanaticism makes it so much faster, especially when you are frozen. It is probably fastest to just ignore him when he is physical immune but I just can't leave any stragglers.

 

[Denton]

Re: Travincal Running WW Barb Mini-Guide

It's probably mentioned already, but Grief/Beast is actually faster than dual Grief if you use Enigma (just did some test runs). I suspect Grief/Grief is faster if you use Fortitude though...

I would also take Grief+Beast BAs over 2xGrief BAs when using Enigma. Even with Fortitude I would probably take Grief+Beast, just because of the bonuses Fanaticism gives both to the barb and the merc.

I remember I calculated the damage for both setups once in past, and in terms of raw damage Grief+Beast does more damage with Enigma, while 2xGrief does more damage with Fortitude. I didn't factor in the +AR and merc though, as I was doing that calculation for PvP purposes mostly. A bucketload of high-end +max damage charms (1.07 ones) could change that in favor of Beast even with Fortitude though, as their damage gets boosted by Fanaticism. Btw those calculations I did were with non-eth-bugged BAs, which favors Grief as it doesn't have edmg%.

However, I would prefer 2x Grief PB mostly for their native indestructibility (I'm not a fan of ATMA-eth-bugging), and because how easy it is to reach 9 frame (fastest) Berserk speed with a PB even without Fanaticism (PB: Grief's IAS + Highlord's IAS = 9 frames).

Also, I get the point of the Titan build, but does anyone have actual data for the highest damage council can inflict? I recall at least once getting down to 1K health (4.7K max life) with one hit.

3,7k life in one hit? I'm quite doubtful that would happen with just one hit. Maybe it was multiple council members hitting at seemingly one instant?

I did maybe around one hundred (I didn't count) test runs with my "PvM barb" which is an almost-titan build with just a bit over 1,4k life and he didn't die even once. That was at p3. The barb's life jumped at near minimum quite often, but the large amount of life steal brought the life right back up. I found that the only slight downside of the titan build is that he needs to be attacking constantly in order to keep up the life stealing and stay alive.

My barb has ~21% life steal, 23% DR and max fire+light res. With that the strongest single hit I witnessed from the council seemed to be something like ~1,2k life lost (while cursed). The barb's weapons during those test runs were Grief PB + Azurewrath/Oath BB; with another Grief PB it would be even more safe. Maybe I just didn't encounter the worst possible council roll during those test runs though, but staying alive for ~100 p3 council runs seems pretty reliable to me.

 

[Todd]

Re: Travincal Running WW Barb Mini-Guide

3,7k life in one hit? I'm quite doubtful that would happen with just one hit. Maybe it was multiple council members hitting at seemingly one instant?

Yeah, that doesn't seem possible to me either. My barb (Grief, Oath, no Fort) has got 2.5k life, ~17LL, and ~35%DR, and I've never seen any single hit get close to one-hitting him, even with cursed/Fana/Might/etc. packs. Even if I get mana burned, I have time to take a quick Double Swing before I'm in trouble. It may help that he has a pretty high Def and DR% (from Leviathan). But mostly, I've just got to keep moving. I've done over 500 runs at this point, levelling from clvl 83 to 90, and have only died twice. One time I was totally pushing it just to see how far he could go, the other I don't recall. But 2.5k feels plenty safe to me. I'm not sure I'd want to go down to 2k, much less 1.5k. But pumping any more points into Vit would definitely be a waste at this point.

 

[Triple Helix]

Re: Travincal Running WW Barb Mini-Guide

What Beast's fanaticism is good for is berserking the council member who regularly spawns physical immune. Fanaticism makes it so much faster, especially when you are frozen. It is probably fastest to just ignore him when he is physical immune but I just can't leave any stragglers.

I find that 1 point in berserk (synergized with Shout) takes very good care of our friend Ismail who frequently spawns PI--even on /p5 or /p7. Not that I have Beast anyway (yet).

I can't leave any stragglers either, and sometimes waste some time picking off the random things that shoot meteors, fireballs, and blizzards at me just out of spite.

Edit: Doh, didn't read Pyro's post on berserk as well as I should have.

 

[Todd]

Re: Travincal Running WW Barb Mini-Guide

I find that 1 point in berserk (synergized with Shout) takes very good care of our friend Ismail who frequently spawns PI--even on /p5 or /p7.

His point was that Beast's Fanaticism makes this faster because it speeds up your attack. This isn't such a big deal in normal circumstances, but when you're finishing off Ismael you're almost always frozen. And since Fana provides skill-based IAS, it directly counters the slowing from freezing. It's definitely a fine point that's only going to save you a few seconds here and there, but an interesting one. Similarly interesting is the point further up that Fana may provide a bigger boost than expected due to the merc not activating Might right away. Should I ever have Bers to spare, I'd like to try it out.

 

[BetaBlocker]

Re: Travincal Running WW Barb Mini-Guide

BAs hit 10 FPA at 75% IAS (35% Grief+LOH+HLs) and needs 125% for 9 FPA. How does being chilled affect these breakpoints?

 

[Denton]

Re: Travincal Running WW Barb Mini-Guide

It's more or less obvious, but I just feel like going through what I think are the key elements for a successful titan-oriented build:

1.) Enough life to not get one-hit-KO'd - obviously absolutely crucial.
2.) Life Steal - enough life steal is crucial. Basically the barb has to be able to refill his life orb to 100% in an "instant" (which is very doable).
3.) Damage - without enough damage there won't be enough life steal.
4.) Damage Reduction % - allows to have slightly lower max life, which allows for more strength -> more dmg, and life steal has a bit easier time overcoming the rate of life lost from hits.

Even if the barb has more life, but too little life steal, a few consecutive hits will wear out the life eventually killing the barb. Arreat's + String of Ears + 1x ring with life steal (ideally mana steal too) gives ~20+% life steal, which I have found to be enough to be able to steal more life back than the barb is losing it vs. any (in ~100 p3 runs anyway) council roll (again, that's with Grief PB + Azurewrath/Oath BB).

Even a few percentage difference in life steal can make a difference between death and survival. For lower damage weapons, I wouldn't consider something like ~30% life steal unreasonable at all, and that's quite easy to reach (the equipment I listed above + second life steal ring).

BAs hit 10 FPA at 75% IAS (35% Grief+LOH+HLs) and needs 125% for 9 FPA. How does being chilled affect these breakpoints?

Fanaticism has skill based IAS, which is more efficient than item based IAS, that's why it's easy to reach 9 frame attack with Beast. With Beast's level 9 Fanaticism only 44% IAS (45%) is needed for a BA to hit 9 frame Berserk. As for being chilled (not by Holy Freeze, but normal cold damage), I don't remember how much it affects, but if you just reached 9 frame Berserk, I would guess being chilled will make it ~3 frames slower.

 

[maxicek]

Re: Travincal Running WW Barb Mini-Guide

My calculator is here (Excel)

 

[DZJB]

Re: Travincal Running WW Barb Mini-Guide

There are some great posts in here, thanks for all the info.

I've been really enjoying my own barb. Some questions:

1) What AR are you all at? I assume that most of you use Sharp GC's or something similar. And I'm using a Metalgrid too, and I've got some AR on my rings. This brings me to 5,6k AR @ 75% cth.

2) What do you socket the Arreats with? I'm guessing a ruby (ED) jewel?

3) My merc is doing fine with his GB (Sol), Gaze (Ral) and Reapers (JoF). But still, he gets eaten when a Conviction aura is around long enough. So the trick is to kill that council member first. Could anyone point out to me how much of a difference there would be if I unsocketed the Sol from his GB, and put a Mal in it?

 

[stephan]

Re: Travincal Running WW Barb Mini-Guide

1) I'm at 6500 AR. My charms are not that good but I'm using Hsarus combo.

3) Don't know. Using GA and Kira's both with a Ral works for me though.

 

[Tanksaabas]

Re: Travincal Running WW Barb Mini-Guide

1. slightly over 4k , more would be better , but the council still dies , no matter the player settings

2. I use a pdiamond for the extra 100 ar

3. merc is dead , he wasn't much of help anyway

as long as I'm whirling I'm fine , no matter the council mods , mana burn is annoying though and at p8 really slows the runs down

I tried p8 for some time but went back to p3 , seems like I get better drops at p3 and it's much faster.

 

[Denton]

Re: Travincal Running WW Barb Mini-Guide

@ maxicek: Psst, about your excel sheet, Critical Strike chance provided by masteries was increased in 1.13. Now it begins from 5% and can reach over 30% with some +skills.

@ DZJB:
1.) IIRC my barb has close to 6k AR. Remember that character level helps with chance to hit.

2.) With high damage weapons and charms, Ruby (the edmg% one) jewel is probably ideal, even a plain one is good. Alternatively a nice +max damage jewel is good too, especially if you have a lot of off-weapon edmg% (titan build, Fort). Note that there's a bug regarding edmg% + min/max dmg jewels where the edmg% doesn't get added properly if it's socketed in anything else than a weapon. Anyone know does that bug still exist in 1.13c?

3.) I use Reaper's(Shael) + Kira's(IAS jewel) + Guardian Angel(IAS jewel) on my merc. That seems to work nicely, making him durable enough vs. hydras to survive until the council goes down. The Kira's' high resists help counter Conviction. An IAS jewel on the Reaper's would be enough to reach 42% IAS required for a 5 frame Jab on the merc, but I haven't bothered re-socketing it yet. (Faster attack = Decrep triggered more often = more constant life steal for the merc.)

 

[maxicek]

Re: Travincal Running WW Barb Mini-Guide

@ maxicek: Psst, about your excel sheet, Critical Strike chance provided by masteries was increased in 1.13. Now it begins from 5% and can reach over 30% with some +skills.

Oooh didn't realise that. I did write it in 1.12 though [/excuse]
I'll update it some time.

 

[nirolo]

Re: Travincal Running WW Barb Mini-Guide

An IAS jewel on the Reaper's would be enough to reach 42% IAS required for a 5 frame Jab on the merc, but I haven't bothered re-socketing it yet. (Faster attack = Decrep triggered more often = more constant life steal for the merc.)

If I calculated correctly, a Shael in Reaper's gives only half a frame more attack speed. So I was wondering if an Eth rune would be a better choice? I do not know the merc's chance to hit (lvl 91), but if it's not over 80-85%, wouldn't Eth be a better choice?

 

[Denton]

Re: Travincal Running WW Barb Mini-Guide

If I calculated correctly, a Shael in Reaper's gives only half a frame more attack speed. So I was wondering if an Eth rune would be a better choice? I do not know the merc's chance to hit (lvl 91), but if it's not over 80-85%, wouldn't Eth be a better choice?

I would guesstimate that depends on the merc's level. At least for a lower level merc (~85 or below) yeah it might be that an Eth in the weapon allows the merc to connect more hits over time than the half frame attack speed increase does. But, still guesstimating, when the merc is level ~90 or above, the increased attack speed is probably more beneficial. Keep in mind that even the half a frame difference when going from 5,5 FPA to 5 FPA is effectively a 10% increase in overall attack speed.


Edit @ ZeN's post below: The weapon speed calculator I used shows the same breakpoints, except 42% instead of 44%. I don't know which one is correct, but in either case, as you said, that makes no difference, as the smallest possible change in IAS is 5% (Shael vs. IAS jewel).

 

[ZeN]

Re: Travincal Running WW Barb Mini-Guide

Unless I am missing something the IAS BP on for Act 2 merc with Reaper are 0%, 8%, 22%, 44%, 75%.

The point still stands - 3 jewels of fervor in hat, armor and reaper get you to the breakpoint.

As for the Eth idea - I am not sure about it - my merc usually doesn't have a problem hitting the Council (judging from his decrep triggering all the time, which is why he is there in the first place), so I wouldn't do it.

 

[Fabian]

Re: Travincal Running WW Barb Mini-Guide

My AR to Demons is 7409, giving 82% chance to hit. This is with a few hard points in Dexterity and lots of AR from charms and such.

I have my Arreat's socketed with a rare jewel which looks like this:

Havoc Gyre
Jewel
Required Level: 42
Item Version: 1.10+ Expansion
Item Level: 85
Fingerprint: 0xdf6669d5
+8 to Strength
+5 to Maximum Damage
Cold Resist +11%
38% Damage to Demons
+34 to Attack Rating against Demons

Quite like it. The ED/Max damage bug isn't present when it's ED to Demons/Undead, btw, so it's working like it "should".

Can't help with the Sol vs Mal question I'm afraid.

 

[smips]

Re: Travincal Running WW Barb Mini-Guide

Nice write up Fabian. I have two comments on it though:

1) In the Amulets section, why don't you have Metalgrid listed? The resistance boost is always welcome and the AR bonus is huge. At level 89, it lifts my CTH from 76% to 81%.

2) If you lack Enigma and don't need +6 to BO to make the runs safer, having Naj's Puzzler on switch works well. My barb loses about 400 HP from the drop in BO and I think 1% to his hork, but he doesn't suffer any drop offs in his gear.

Just thought I'd throw these out there for some consideration.

 

[nirolo]

Re: Travincal Running WW Barb Mini-Guide

I would guesstimate that depends on the merc's level. At least for a lower level merc (~85 or below) yeah it might be that an Eth in the weapon allows the merc to connect more hits over time than the half frame attack speed increase does. But, still guesstimating, when the merc is level ~90 or above, the increased attack speed is probably more beneficial. Keep in mind that even the half a frame difference when going from 5,5 FPA to 5 FPA is effectively a 10% increase in overall attack speed.

Yeah, It's hard to conclude anything, since we don't know the exact merc's chance to hit. Does someone know the exact numbers, or is there a calculator for this purpose?

@ZeN

If he hits only 50% of the time, Decrepify will still be procing very often. But if he hits only 50% of the time, he won't be leeching as much as we'd like. So, if his chance to hit in low 90's is under 80%, I think it is better to try an Eth.

 

[Fabian]

Re: Travincal Running WW Barb Mini-Guide

Metalgrid sounds reasonable I guess. I've never found it so I've never tried it. I have a feeling Highlord's will be better pretty much no matter what though, that DS boost is truly huge. Definitely a possibility though, for sure. Naj's Puzzler sounds reasonable/good too, definitely, since you can wear both Arreat's and Highlord's that way and still have Teleport.

Thanks for the comments