The Vanquisher, defined - a guide to smite/hammer paladins <

[Quietus]

I was planning on Draculs, I think there is no need for more than 1 source of open wounds, it should trigger constantly even with only 25%. So no beneift in Steel, although I did consider Black in a flail.

If I put only 3 shael in my phase blade what should I put in the remaining 3 sockets ?

In all honesty, when you're trying to keep the cost down, it really is a difficult call as to what to use in those three sockets. There are no runes that will really help your hammers at all, and the only runes that would provide a noticeable help to your Smite are high runes - notably, Ber. Three ber in a phase blade can make for a cheaper version of Last Wish; But since you're looking at cost-effectiveness, that's not a great idea.

Looking through the rune lists... I'd say the best cheaper runes you could use would be Lems for extra gold find, fals for strength (though this could leave you heavily reliant on your gemmed phase, which IMO isn't a good idea, you'll want to upgrade eventually), or ios for vitality. Of course, you could always go with jewels, and find a few with resistances or fhr, to shore up any weak points you may have in those areas.

::Edit:: Keep in mind, of course, that as you would then have 65% ias on your weapon, you would still need to pick up 5% more for a 6-frame smite. If you can't manage that on your gear, you can drop one more shael from the phase and stay at the 7-frame smite, with four sockets for things like resistance jewels.

 

[sorcyone]

In all honesty, when you're trying to keep the cost down, it really is a difficult call as to what to use in those three sockets. There are no runes that will really help your hammers at all, and the only runes that would provide a noticeable help to your Smite are high runes - notably, Ber. Three ber in a phase blade can make for a cheaper version of Last Wish; But since you're looking at cost-effectiveness, that's not a great idea.

Looking through the rune lists... I'd say the best cheaper runes you could use would be Lems for extra gold find, fals for strength (though this could leave you heavily reliant on your gemmed phase, which IMO isn't a good idea, you'll want to upgrade eventually), or ios for vitality. Of course, you could always go with jewels, and find a few with resistances or fhr, to shore up any weak points you may have in those areas.

::Edit:: Keep in mind, of course, that as you would then have 65% ias on your weapon, you would still need to pick up 5% more for a 6-frame smite. If you can't manage that on your gear, you can drop one more shael from the phase and stay at the 7-frame smite, with four sockets for things like resistance jewels.

Thx. I just completed my keyset last night. I am using a spirit 29 crown (love the low strength and level reqs and still 55 block). A 45res Kurast shield (but 154 def) dropped, and this is handily the same base block I use! (And as usual 2 white Kurasts at the same time lol).
I will either Spirit or 4 pdiamond it.
My strength is a bit low so 4 Shael and 2 Fal could be the best I can do cheaply. I don't want to waste good IAS jewels. Also I am using a Druid ULC 10/20 so hopefully I can improve on the stats.

It's amazing to see the key prices drop so much. A 9 key set is only Um. I bought a key of Terror for 1 pa ! I thought the guy was joking. But I guess here on Asia the realm is so clean HRs are not common and most people do not even consider ubers as doable.

My equip for ubers:
6 sock PB 4 shael 2 Fal
27 Mara
Shako/Guilliames (15 res jewel)
Goblin Toe
Draculs
20Raven+Dwarf
32vipermagi upped + 14 res 8 str jewel
Arachnid Mesh or Hwanin's Blessing (for PMH) or IK belt
45 res Kurast + 4 pd or Spirit
Many life + resist charms including 5%run7%resist all LC

I am thinking of using Spirit instead of 4pd. With treachery prebuff my resists should be maxed even under -100 conviction (even fire resist) and I have no point in Salvation, all points for hammer and Holy Shield (level 87 BA 14 HS 16), and 1 in redemption.
Still to buy Draculs (20-25pg) and Guilliames (20pg) or socketable Shako, and an Ist to make a CTA. Life is about 1870 at level 87 without BO.

Does prebuffing work with smite on Holy Shield? Is it worth getting a HoZ to prebuff it ? It last about 10 minutes.

Is 25% CB enough or do I really need Guilliames ?

My main worry is leeching enough from smite.

 

[Quietus]

Thx. I just completed my keyset last night. I am using a spirit 29 crown (love the low strength and level reqs and still 55 block). A 45res Kurast shield (but 154 def) dropped, and this is handily the same base block I use! (And as usual 2 white Kurasts at the same time lol).
I will either Spirit or 4 pdiamond it.
My strength is a bit low so 4 Shael and 2 Fal could be the best I can do cheaply. I don't want to waste good IAS jewels. Also I am using a Druid ULC 10/20 so hopefully I can improve on the stats.

It's amazing to see the key prices drop so much. A 9 key set is only Um. I bought a key of Terror for 1 pa ! I thought the guy was joking. But I guess here on Asia the realm is so clean HRs are not common and most people do not even consider ubers as doable.

My equip for ubers:
6 sock PB 4 shael 2 Fal
27 Mara
Shako/Guilliames (15 res jewel)
Goblin Toe
Draculs
20Raven+Dwarf
32vipermagi upped + 14 res 8 str jewel
Arachnid Mesh or Hwanin's Blessing (for PMH) or IK belt
45 res Kurast + 4 pd or Spirit
Many life + resist charms including 5%run7%resist all LC

I am thinking of using Spirit instead of 4pd. With treachery prebuff my resists should be maxed even under -100 conviction (even fire resist) and I have no point in Salvation, all points for hammer and Holy Shield (level 87 BA 14 HS 16), and 1 in redemption.
Still to buy Draculs (20-25pg) and Guilliames (20pg) or socketable Shako, and an Ist to make a CTA. Life is about 1870 at level 87 without BO.

Does prebuffing work with smite on Holy Shield? Is it worth getting a HoZ to prebuff it ? It last about 10 minutes.

Is 25% CB enough or do I really need Guilliames ?

My main worry is leeching enough from smite.

Well, I'd keep with Guillaime's, because your smite damage is quite low - using Guillaime's basically takes it from every fourth strike hitting a crushing blow, to more than every second. It will make a noticeable difference. I wouldn't worry about PMH, since you'll get Dracul's - that'll keep constant open wounds, which, if I'm not mistaken, works as negative regen, effectively giving you prevent monster heal in the process.

With a full 75% resist all, in hell, with 125 stack, you shouldn't have too much trouble. 2k life... things might get a little bit sticky, but that's pre-bo, which is actually quite impressive.

Your gear does look fairly good, all things considered. I'd definately go with the arach belt, and if you can keep full + 125 resist in hell, then I'd seriously recommend Spirit. Between arach, spirit (ANY roll on spirit), and vipermagi, you have 75% faster cast rate - the second last breakpoint, and a very respectable one. Plus you'll hit 85 faster hit recovery between Guillaime's and spirit. One 5% fhr small charm will be enough to put you over the 86 breakpoint there. With a four shael sword, you've got a six frame smite, and between goblin toes and guilla, every second strike cutting a chunk off their life.. I would definately say you've built yourself quite a respectable looking vanquisher, here.

::Edit:: About Holy Sheild - you can, indeed, prebuff it. However, I'm not sure if you're familiar with how Enchant looks at casting... Holy Sheild works the same way. You *cannot* overwrite a higher-level Holy Sheild with a lower level one, not even to refresh the timer. So, if you max it out, and have +10 skills from gear (a random number I picked), and you change out a couple items to have +12 holy sheild on prebuff - when you're running around normally, you wouldn't be able to refresh it until the old one wears off, leaving you with a weak smite until you recast.

However, for the ubers, prebuffing works beautifully. After all, the fights are relatively short-lived; prebuff before you jump in a portal, it should still be active when you hop back out. Just remember to prebuff before each jump and you'll be fine.

 

[sorcyone]

OK this worked really well. I did 3 runs and got
sor 14/19 !
ama 12/15
pal 18/14 !! yay!

The second run I got doubled by Diablo+Baal. The third time even my merc never died until got doubled by Meph+Baal. Even then it was still easy.

My cheapish equipment :
Guilliames (Shael) (bought it with a Shael in it)
27 Mara
Dwarfstar/Ravenfrost
Arachnid mesh
dracs
goblin toe
32% Vipermagi upped with 14% res all +8 strength jewel
45 res Spirit Kurast shield
6 socket Phase blade with 3 Shael, 12 Cold res 15 IAS jewel, +8 strength 12 damage to mana rare jewel, Ko (+10dex for the same dex as Hoto for when I get a Hoto).

many life + resist charms. 38 squares of charms!

Merc Gear
Insight eth Col voulge
upped duriels shell
tal helmet

Fire resistance was the hardest to max :
30 Anya Quest
27 Mara
46 Viper
45 Spirit shield
20 druid 10/20 torch
7 res all lc
60 fade from treachery
13 13 life 13 fire res lc
30 30 fire res GC
10 10 fire res sc
9 3% run 9% fire res sc
---
297

-100 Hell
-125 Conviction
===
72 fire res

Hammerdin Level 88
life ~1850 (~1950 with shako).
Holy shield prebuffed to Level 27 for the breakpoint by using Shako and Spirit sword.
20 Hammer
20 Concentration
20 Vigor
14 Blessed Aim
17 Holy Shield
1 Redemption

I just made a cta (1BO again) and now I have a pal ulc so I am going to experiment with reducing the equipment. I don't use the life tap dagger on the minis, maybe I'll try without on ubers too.

Some tips:
1. Just before you battle Lillith quaff an antidote and give one to your merc.
2. I don't think it is necessary to use Salvation. You will be doing half damage too (and leeching half). So save a point in this tight build.
3. Don't use gores. The only benefit gores has is defense and faster run.
4. Only one source of open wounds is needed. It will keep retriggering before it runs out. Even 10% is enough.
5. Get 6 frame smite ! This really helps leech and keeping up life tap.
6. Once you know what you are doing potions are not even necessary, except some blues for Baal.
7. With good life you don't really need more than 50 res under Meph conviction.
8. It's worth buying a ULC for your first run.
9. Make sure you have a Hell char free to hold the new ULC.
10. I use a 2 finger press to change skills, F1&F2 for hammer/Conc, F3&F4 charge/vigor. I never ended up using hammer effectively on the ubers. Not leeching for even 2 seconds was just too dangerous.

 

[Quietus]

Some tips:
1. Just before you battle Lillith quaff an antidote and give one to your merc.
2. I don't think it is necessary to use Salvation. You will be doing half damage too (and leeching half). So save a point in this tight build.
3. Don't use gores. The only benefit gores has is defense and faster run.
4. Only one source of open wounds is needed. It will keep retriggering before it runs out. Even 10% is enough.
5. Get 6 frame smite ! This really helps leech and keeping up life tap.
6. Once you know what you are doing potions are not even necessary, except some blues for Baal.
7. With good life you don't really need more than 50 res under Meph conviction.
8. It's worth buying a ULC for your first run.
9. Make sure you have a Hell char free to hold the new ULC.
10. I use a 2 finger press to change skills, F1&F2 for hammer/Conc, F3&F4 charge/vigor. I never ended up using hammer effectively on the ubers. Not leeching for even 2 seconds was just too dangerous.

Glad to hear that the build worked out well for you. I actually agree with most of your points, and I will admit, I never thought about antidotes for Lilith - they would most certainly help. If I do a rewrite, I may include that. I definately agree about Salvation, I've not used it myself because I find the loss of damage to be too annoying - and besides, if you're not leeching enough, you're simply going to die from taking too much damage anyway.

I do, however, disagree with the comment about the gores. Yes, you lose some crushing blow, and it's other mods are less than optimal. However, I think the faster run/walk, aside from being extremely convenient, is good for when you need to reposition yourself. Particularly if you're going with a dedicated hybrid without enigma.

About the resists - When I was running 3.2k life with 30 lightning resist, Mephisto was capable of tearing me apart in one hit with charged bolt, if he got lucky. It didn't happen too often, so long as I played smart, but every now and then it was still painful. Since then I've gone up to 3,355 life with 75% lightning resist, and all is well with the world, but that's also a direct result of the amount of wealth I've placed into my vanquisher.

 

[sorcyone]

Glad to hear that the build worked out well for you. I actually agree with most of your points, and I will admit, I never thought about antidotes for Lilith - they would most certainly help. If I do a rewrite, I may include that. I definately agree about Salvation, I've not used it myself because I find the loss of damage to be too annoying - and besides, if you're not leeching enough, you're simply going to die from taking too much damage anyway.

I do, however, disagree with the comment about the gores. Yes, you lose some crushing blow, and it's other mods are less than optimal. However, I think the faster run/walk, aside from being extremely convenient, is good for when you need to reposition yourself. Particularly if you're going with a dedicated hybrid without enigma.

About the resists - When I was running 3.2k life with 30 lightning resist, Mephisto was capable of tearing me apart in one hit with charged bolt, if he got lucky. It didn't happen too often, so long as I played smart, but every now and then it was still painful. Since then I've gone up to 3,355 life with 75% lightning resist, and all is well with the world, but that's also a direct result of the amount of wealth I've placed into my vanquisher.

You can use the same trick with thawing potions on Duriel. It raises your cold resistance to 85%. Not really needed, but I use it on Normal Duriel.

I gear switch for the ubers so goblin toe is ideal for me. You know I never noticed any speed loss with goblin toe. I always move with charge+vigor and with maxxed vigor it's very fast even with no run faster. But if I was going to smite outside of the Ubers I think gore is a better choice too.

Ouch I would never run 30 lightning resist even under conviction. I should have mentioned I would still keep light resist up high. Did you ever get hit with lower resist and a conviction aura gloam ? It's nasty.

 

[Quietus]

You can use the same trick with thawing potions on Duriel. It raises your cold resistance to 85%. Not really needed, but I use it on Normal Duriel.

I gear switch for the ubers so goblin toe is ideal for me. You know I never noticed any speed loss with goblin toe. I always move with charge+vigor and with maxxed vigor it's very fast even with no run faster. But if I was going to smite outside of the Ubers I think gore is a better choice too.

Ouch I would never run 30 lightning resist even under conviction. I should have mentioned I would still keep light resist up high. Did you ever get hit with lower resist and a conviction aura gloam ? It's nasty.

Glad we agree on the Goblin Toes point. As for vigor + charge, charge actually completely ignores any non-skill increased run/walk, which would be why you didn't notice any speed decrease. The only other things that can affect the speed of charge would be a barbarian's increased speed ability, an assassin's burst of speed, and the various things in the game that can slow you. And of course, if you're not playing hacked open, increased speed and burst of speed aren't options.

And yes, I know - 30 light resist is quite low. That's why I picked up a few 11 light resist charms, which happen to fit nicely about my skill grand charms. 75% light resist is quite nice, reduces the light damage I take to 1/3 of what it was. As far as conviction/lower resist gloams go... When I play PvM in hammer mode, I have resists stacked about 30 deep, probably closer to 60 with light thanks to the small charms. So with BOTH of those on me, I still lose some light resistance. However, I do baal runs - I run my own series of runs, and have done ever teleport down to Baal my character's gone through since level 80, and I'm currently working on getting 96. I've run into a few packs like that, and I have to say, they don't scare me. The only time I have problems is when I run into a really nasty bunch of viper magi with mana burn.

 

[Tohyj]

Re: The Vanquisher, defined - a guide to smite/hammer paladins

i need some help here, i have this item, and i wan try out your build. can u tell me what item i can use. More for PVP

COA(berber), shako, Guillaime’s Face
Mara, Highlord’s Wrath
enigma
vendgo, spider
bloodfist,drac,
grief pb
upped hoz, spirit
sandstorm, gore rider, waterwalk
raven frost ,Bul-Kathos

what will be the expected dmg for hammer and smite ?

 

[Trionth]

Re: The Vanquisher, defined - a guide to smite/hammer paladins

Excelent Guide!

If a person wanted to get fade for the extra resistances (which is certainly helpful) store 'Treachery' in your stash. Take it out, and trigger the fade (standing in a fire, letting a monster hit you, etc...) then switch back to your main armor and go clear Uber-tristram!

Kingslayer would definently be the weapon of choice with this build, with HoZ-Um as shield, but what would you suggest for a switch?

I was thinking HoTo on switch for use hammering (+3 skills is helpfull) But I don't know what to use for a shield switch, and since I'm NL 'Spirit' is hard to come by.

Great Guide, Definently going to reset my Dedicated Hammerdin and rebuild him into this