The PvP Thread
- Thread starter nulio
- Start date
I'm updating my character list before PvP week. Not all of those characters are ready and some of those I rarely play, but it doesn't hurt to list them anyway. You can replace my previous list with this one removing linked pics as well.
Gripphon, RS1, UTC+1
HLD
- Vegeta - Barbarian - BvC - 1.13d
- Rammstein - Barbarian - Zerker - 1.13d
- Playboy_Bunny - Barbarian - TeamLeaper - 1.13d
- Scorpion - Barbarian - Poison - 1.13d
- Artemis - Assassin - Fire Trapper - 1.13d
- Ramona - Assassin - Fire Hybrid - 1.13d
- Sinn - Assassin - Ghost - 1.13d
- Jun - Assassin - Kicker - 1.13d
- Phoenix - Sorceress - Vita Fire - 1.13d
- Ventress - Sorceress - dual Dream - 1.13d
- Tichondrius - Necromancer - Vita Bonemancer - 1.13d
- Odiseuss - Druid - Block Windy - 1.13d
- Chimera - Druid - Vita Fire - 1.13d
- Regina - Amazon - Bowazon - 1.13d
- Umbriel - Amazon - CS Javazon - 1.13d
- Fisto - Paladin - Liberator/Hammerdin - 1.13d
- Shenron - Paladin - Zealot - 1.13d
- Archelon - Paladin - Bow/Charge - 1.13d
LLD
- Hercules - Barbarian - WW - 1.13d
- Azura - Assassin - Kicker - 1.13d
- Seth - Druid - Fury - 1.13d
- Celeste - Sorceress - Blizzard - 1.13d
- Agrona - Amazon - Bowazon - 1.13d
- Shamash - Druid - Windy - 1.13d
Gripphon, RS1, UTC+1
HLD
- Vegeta - Barbarian - BvC - 1.13d
- Rammstein - Barbarian - Zerker - 1.13d
- Playboy_Bunny - Barbarian - TeamLeaper - 1.13d
- Scorpion - Barbarian - Poison - 1.13d
- Artemis - Assassin - Fire Trapper - 1.13d
- Ramona - Assassin - Fire Hybrid - 1.13d
- Sinn - Assassin - Ghost - 1.13d
- Jun - Assassin - Kicker - 1.13d
- Phoenix - Sorceress - Vita Fire - 1.13d
- Ventress - Sorceress - dual Dream - 1.13d
- Tichondrius - Necromancer - Vita Bonemancer - 1.13d
- Odiseuss - Druid - Block Windy - 1.13d
- Chimera - Druid - Vita Fire - 1.13d
- Regina - Amazon - Bowazon - 1.13d
- Umbriel - Amazon - CS Javazon - 1.13d
- Fisto - Paladin - Liberator/Hammerdin - 1.13d
- Shenron - Paladin - Zealot - 1.13d
- Archelon - Paladin - Bow/Charge - 1.13d
LLD
- Hercules - Barbarian - WW - 1.13d
- Azura - Assassin - Kicker - 1.13d
- Seth - Druid - Fury - 1.13d
- Celeste - Sorceress - Blizzard - 1.13d
- Agrona - Amazon - Bowazon - 1.13d
- Shamash - Druid - Windy - 1.13d
I can, but first you have to realize that PvM zealot and PvP zealot are two completely different characters. In PvM zealot uses Zeal as main skill to kill everything in his path. In PvP Zeal is backup skill used only for certain situations, no matter how powerful you make your Zeal.
I defined my paladin as Zealot, but in reality it is 80% Charge/Smite and 20% Zeal, cause in most situations Charge/Smite combo is just so much better than Zeal. Same is true for Smiter actually since I made and play pure Smiter as well. People call paladins Smiters cause they have maxed Smite, but in reality they also perform Charge/Smite combo most of the time with Charge doing most of the damage, not Smite. It is simply "curse" of melee paladins where Charge is just too powerful in comparison to any other skill paladins have.
At first I started with typical Zealot: max Zeal, max synergy, max Fanaticism, rest Charge and synergies for it. And it worked well. But it didn't take me long to realize that, no matter how strong your Zeal is, it will only be a backup skill to Charge and Smite combo. It is main skill in some matches, but in most of them, you will do most of the damage with Charge/Smite rather than Zeal. So with time I changed my paladin to be actually ideal Charger in my eyes. I can name my paladin both Charger or Zealot, but I named him Zealot since he has Zeal which will always be only backup skill.
If you want to make themed Zealot, aka typical Zealot, then you simply go max Zeal, max synergy, max Fanaticism, and put rest into Charge and synergy for it (Vigor). 1 pt or more into Holy Shield if you care about defense, but in general it doesn't matter much, you will have 6k+ defense anyway.
My variant of Zealot is actually typical Charger with Zeal backup skill: max Charge, max all Charge synergies, max Fanaticism, put rest into Zeal (10~11 points in the end, only to boost AR more). I didn't put a point into Holy Shield since I have it in CtA scepter, but 1 point there for sure if you don't have such thing. 1 point that allres aura can be useful too. In the end, it is up to you will you focus more on Charge or on Zeal, but to me investing into Zeal is only making that paladin weaker. Difference between my first and my second setup is this: First setup offers 2k Charge damage and 1.5k Zeal damage. Second setup offers 3k Charge damage and 1.15k Zeal damage. And since I concluded Charge is 80% of the paladin while Zeal is like 20%, I improved my paladin a lot that way. But you do as you please. Maybe your playing style will be different, but also note that focusing on Zeal during playing requires decent telestomping and namelocking skill to make it work, while Charge/Smite is much more straightforward and easier to do.
I also had variant in between, with more focus on Charge and less to Zeal to end with 2.7k Charge damage and 1.3k Zeal damage. Variations are possible, you just have to play around with skill planner to see what you like most.
Gear... well gear is not so cheap, but also not so expensive either. Main setup is 1.07 Shako, HLW amulet, Enigma, Spirit, 1.07 eth bugged Grief, Arachnid Mesh, Trang Claws, Ravenfrost, Nature's Peace Ring, Sandstorm Treks, inventory full of charms to cover resistances, to boost AR and to boost mana.
Second ring is up to you, but I like Oak rings to have a minion and nice life boost, also that ring is flexible and can be used for Wisp Projector (Oak + lite sorb), second Ravenfrost, some rare ring, Dwarf Star (fire absorb)... You can also put angelic ring + amulet combo for some matches if you want. Having flexible ring is very nice for PvP. But, I basically never use anything than Oak rings, which are Nature's Peace or Wisp Projector.
I have two DR setups for paladin. One is Ber 1.07 Shako + 15 DR dungo giving me 31 DR total + nice life cause of Shako, which is nice setup for FFA. I lose 75 fcr breakpoint, but it is irrelevant for this paladin, you will use charge most of the time anyway. At least I do. Second DR setup is BerBer Crown of Ages + Dungo for 50 DR total which is better for certain matchups where DR is required. In FFA in general Ber shako + Dungo are stronger unless all or most opponents have physical damage characters. I think Ber/-req CoA is better, but I don't have it so I use BerBer CoA + that way I do get to 50 DR instead of 46 maximum, but would have to invest less strength to wear that setup giving me more life in the end. I aimed for like 8k+ Zeal attack rating and your Charge attack rating if possible. Mana is not important. Eth Grief is also not a gamebreaker since PB can also work nicely.
It is possible to use rare boots etc... you can aim for something different on your paladin if you care. It is up to you what you wanna do with him. I also have option to put hurty 2h stick on my pala since Charge is maxed, but I'd have to make up for resistances with Kira's or some other way. + no shield makes that kind of setup only for fun.
At first I started with typical Zealot: max Zeal, max synergy, max Fanaticism, rest Charge and synergies for it. And it worked well. But it didn't take me long to realize that, no matter how strong your Zeal is, it will only be a backup skill to Charge and Smite combo. It is main skill in some matches, but in most of them, you will do most of the damage with Charge/Smite rather than Zeal. So with time I changed my paladin to be actually ideal Charger in my eyes. I can name my paladin both Charger or Zealot, but I named him Zealot since he has Zeal which will always be only backup skill.
If you want to make themed Zealot, aka typical Zealot, then you simply go max Zeal, max synergy, max Fanaticism, and put rest into Charge and synergy for it (Vigor). 1 pt or more into Holy Shield if you care about defense, but in general it doesn't matter much, you will have 6k+ defense anyway.
My variant of Zealot is actually typical Charger with Zeal backup skill: max Charge, max all Charge synergies, max Fanaticism, put rest into Zeal (10~11 points in the end, only to boost AR more). I didn't put a point into Holy Shield since I have it in CtA scepter, but 1 point there for sure if you don't have such thing. 1 point that allres aura can be useful too. In the end, it is up to you will you focus more on Charge or on Zeal, but to me investing into Zeal is only making that paladin weaker. Difference between my first and my second setup is this: First setup offers 2k Charge damage and 1.5k Zeal damage. Second setup offers 3k Charge damage and 1.15k Zeal damage. And since I concluded Charge is 80% of the paladin while Zeal is like 20%, I improved my paladin a lot that way. But you do as you please. Maybe your playing style will be different, but also note that focusing on Zeal during playing requires decent telestomping and namelocking skill to make it work, while Charge/Smite is much more straightforward and easier to do.
I also had variant in between, with more focus on Charge and less to Zeal to end with 2.7k Charge damage and 1.3k Zeal damage. Variations are possible, you just have to play around with skill planner to see what you like most.
Gear... well gear is not so cheap, but also not so expensive either. Main setup is 1.07 Shako, HLW amulet, Enigma, Spirit, 1.07 eth bugged Grief, Arachnid Mesh, Trang Claws, Ravenfrost, Nature's Peace Ring, Sandstorm Treks, inventory full of charms to cover resistances, to boost AR and to boost mana.
Second ring is up to you, but I like Oak rings to have a minion and nice life boost, also that ring is flexible and can be used for Wisp Projector (Oak + lite sorb), second Ravenfrost, some rare ring, Dwarf Star (fire absorb)... You can also put angelic ring + amulet combo for some matches if you want. Having flexible ring is very nice for PvP. But, I basically never use anything than Oak rings, which are Nature's Peace or Wisp Projector.
I have two DR setups for paladin. One is Ber 1.07 Shako + 15 DR dungo giving me 31 DR total + nice life cause of Shako, which is nice setup for FFA. I lose 75 fcr breakpoint, but it is irrelevant for this paladin, you will use charge most of the time anyway. At least I do. Second DR setup is BerBer Crown of Ages + Dungo for 50 DR total which is better for certain matchups where DR is required. In FFA in general Ber shako + Dungo are stronger unless all or most opponents have physical damage characters. I think Ber/-req CoA is better, but I don't have it so I use BerBer CoA + that way I do get to 50 DR instead of 46 maximum, but would have to invest less strength to wear that setup giving me more life in the end. I aimed for like 8k+ Zeal attack rating and your Charge attack rating if possible. Mana is not important. Eth Grief is also not a gamebreaker since PB can also work nicely.
It is possible to use rare boots etc... you can aim for something different on your paladin if you care. It is up to you what you wanna do with him. I also have option to put hurty 2h stick on my pala since Charge is maxed, but I'd have to make up for resistances with Kira's or some other way. + no shield makes that kind of setup only for fun.
Oh right, I was mostly intrested in a PvM Zealot setup. What I dont like in PvP is that you basically don't have a stable character but you will need to contanstly change your gear depending on what your opponent has.
I onced joined your PvP battles. I brought my pure charger in. I didn't do that well since it was a character I invested only in damage and barely on anything else (defense, health, resists). I was dying pretty fast but if I managed to Charge someone it was probably a kill.
I onced joined your PvP battles. I brought my pure charger in. I didn't do that well since it was a character I invested only in damage and barely on anything else (defense, health, resists). I was dying pretty fast but if I managed to Charge someone it was probably a kill.
Actually these days I swap gear less. I try to concentrate on having maxed lightning resist and fire resist, with the ability to get max poison easily if required. Swap in Treks, Andy's Visage, Carrion Wind, Deaths Hand typically. Cold I keep high if possible for Hurricane.
We mainly play FFA so it is important to be able to cope with any variety of opponents. You can't keep tweaking items every time someone leaves and comes back with a different character.
It's also not unusual to find yourself in s game with Hammerdin, bowazon, BvC and a bone necro, where you don't need resists!
We mainly play FFA so it is important to be able to cope with any variety of opponents. You can't keep tweaking items every time someone leaves and comes back with a different character.
It's also not unusual to find yourself in s game with Hammerdin, bowazon, BvC and a bone necro, where you don't need resists!
@Excalibur
Well since you posted in PvP thread, I didn't post about PvM zealot, naturally. As for constantly switching gear in PvP... you don't have to do that. You can have only one setup. Namely BerBer CoA + Dungo + rest all the time to have best all around equipment. Some of us change gear cause we want to have stronger character in specific situation. But you don't have to do that. Many PvP-ers don't even change gear, they have one master setup all the time and that's all. In fact, it is important to have one master setup for all situations.
BTW I don't really play zealots in PvM. They are bad in comparison to other builds, that's why. In general Hammerdin is simply better for leveling, and for everything else barb and sorc simply wipe floor with zealot. So I don't really bother.
@ Max
I changed my priorities lately for PvP. Even though I always keep maxed res on all characters (except bowa where I max poison resist only when I have to), now I added cold resist stack into mix. Last PvP week had frustrating moments of blizzard sorc ruining my FFA with random shot, so now I actually look to stack her up to eliminate her as any kind of threat. I can't do it with all the characters, but with most I can stack to certain value, at least to avoid 1 shot or to lose almost all the hp with first shot, and with some I can stack her to full ress which I might avoid doing since she will then become helpless. And with some I can stack to the point to have maxed cold res even if she has maxed cold mastery...
Well since you posted in PvP thread, I didn't post about PvM zealot, naturally. As for constantly switching gear in PvP... you don't have to do that. You can have only one setup. Namely BerBer CoA + Dungo + rest all the time to have best all around equipment. Some of us change gear cause we want to have stronger character in specific situation. But you don't have to do that. Many PvP-ers don't even change gear, they have one master setup all the time and that's all. In fact, it is important to have one master setup for all situations.
BTW I don't really play zealots in PvM. They are bad in comparison to other builds, that's why. In general Hammerdin is simply better for leveling, and for everything else barb and sorc simply wipe floor with zealot. So I don't really bother.
@ Max
I changed my priorities lately for PvP. Even though I always keep maxed res on all characters (except bowa where I max poison resist only when I have to), now I added cold resist stack into mix. Last PvP week had frustrating moments of blizzard sorc ruining my FFA with random shot, so now I actually look to stack her up to eliminate her as any kind of threat. I can't do it with all the characters, but with most I can stack to certain value, at least to avoid 1 shot or to lose almost all the hp with first shot, and with some I can stack her to full ress which I might avoid doing since she will then become helpless. And with some I can stack to the point to have maxed cold res even if she has maxed cold mastery...
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Better solution: Kill blizz first.
I could probably stack on a Paladin, maybe a bit but I'm going to lose Spirit. Sure I can put on a 100 CR Kira's, but then I lose Shako.
I would like to see what you come up with, but it seems like a big compromise for me.
I could probably stack on a Paladin, maybe a bit but I'm going to lose Spirit. Sure I can put on a 100 CR Kira's, but then I lose Shako.
I would like to see what you come up with, but it seems like a big compromise for me.
Paladins also have 1 point that allresist aura which alone adds like 90 to cold resist. Downside is it is not always active, but oh well. My stacking mostly relies on having high res boots switch + ring or amulet + replacing some AR charms with cold res grand or small charms. I usually aim to keep Shako on, and Kira's is option to max cold resist instead. But, Kira's is easier way for sure.
On assassin I have enough amulets to have high CR stack one, also boots + also some charms. BvC doesn't really need stacking, but why not, at least to avoid 4k damage first hit aka losing half hp immediately.
I don't stack to 75 res, but rather to have like ~0 (taking only half damage from first blizzard hit), or to some positive value. Stacking all the way to 75 would make blizzard sorc too weak to battle after all.
On assassin I have enough amulets to have high CR stack one, also boots + also some charms. BvC doesn't really need stacking, but why not, at least to avoid 4k damage first hit aka losing half hp immediately.
I don't stack to 75 res, but rather to have like ~0 (taking only half damage from first blizzard hit), or to some positive value. Stacking all the way to 75 would make blizzard sorc too weak to battle after all.
For example max, I think all assassins can do it np. They are not reliant on skillers (Ghosts) and trappers get very little damage per charm if you consider that claws can get you as much damage (and more) than full inventory of skillers.
On my Ghost specifically, just switch out Shako for 98 cr Kira's. That allows me to switch classic 20fhr 45fr/lr boots for boots that focus more on CR (20frw 10fhr 39lr 39cr 33pr 3rep), I can remove some fr/lr scs from inventory due to Kira's stack as well.
98 shako, 30 trangs 11 rare ring 39 boots 38 allress charms 70 fade. That's 286. Remove 2 unneeded FR scs, one LR and two ar/life ones for 5 x CR/life and you have enough to keep 75 CR after CM -ress. And all it costs you is Shako life and two scs worth of ar. If you use something like 30cr/60ar/9dex/8life jewel in Kira's you would even get extra ar than main setup has. Plus, this setup has somewhat stacked LR as well, so any -ress from griffon's, foh scepters and such won't affect me at all. It's really good for -ress ffa.
+ you really don't have to go to such lengths to counter sorc. Just make sure they don't totally mess up your ffa with random blizzard. You can apply absolutely same principle for trappers. Swap Shako for Kira's and couple trap GCs for scs with CR/life. Imo, this doesn't sound like too big of a compromise. You might deal less damage, but as long as no one is wearing wisp or absorb in general, trapper will always deal good damage.
I also did setup for stacking -ress on my charge/hammer pally and bone nec (125 CR wizzy and Kira's). Nec actually loses a lot of damage but necs are still strongest pvp class overall so it shouldn't affect me as much as getting oneshoted when teleporting around.
On my Ghost specifically, just switch out Shako for 98 cr Kira's. That allows me to switch classic 20fhr 45fr/lr boots for boots that focus more on CR (20frw 10fhr 39lr 39cr 33pr 3rep), I can remove some fr/lr scs from inventory due to Kira's stack as well.
98 shako, 30 trangs 11 rare ring 39 boots 38 allress charms 70 fade. That's 286. Remove 2 unneeded FR scs, one LR and two ar/life ones for 5 x CR/life and you have enough to keep 75 CR after CM -ress. And all it costs you is Shako life and two scs worth of ar. If you use something like 30cr/60ar/9dex/8life jewel in Kira's you would even get extra ar than main setup has. Plus, this setup has somewhat stacked LR as well, so any -ress from griffon's, foh scepters and such won't affect me at all. It's really good for -ress ffa.
+ you really don't have to go to such lengths to counter sorc. Just make sure they don't totally mess up your ffa with random blizzard. You can apply absolutely same principle for trappers. Swap Shako for Kira's and couple trap GCs for scs with CR/life. Imo, this doesn't sound like too big of a compromise. You might deal less damage, but as long as no one is wearing wisp or absorb in general, trapper will always deal good damage.
I also did setup for stacking -ress on my charge/hammer pally and bone nec (125 CR wizzy and Kira's). Nec actually loses a lot of damage but necs are still strongest pvp class overall so it shouldn't affect me as much as getting oneshoted when teleporting around.
I hope I'll find a few hours to level my lamerdin in time ))
Oh, and I forgot to add my chars last time around:
srrw, RS1, UTC+3
HLD
- Summer - Sorceress - Blizzard - 1.13d
- Faded - Paladin - Hammerdin - 1.13d
- Plutonium - Necromancer - Bone - 1.13d
Edit:
Oh, and I forgot to add my chars last time around:
srrw, RS1, UTC+3
HLD
- Summer - Sorceress - Blizzard - 1.13d
- Faded - Paladin - Hammerdin - 1.13d
- Plutonium - Necromancer - Bone - 1.13d
Edit:
Summer says "Hi!"
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I don't have much experience playing windys, but I do have experience playing against windys.
General conclusion is this:
Inexperienced vita wind druids = food for pretty much all teleporting physical-damage characters + bowazon.
If player is new to windy build, I'd say it is much better to have vita setup with block backup (basically switching spirit for stormshield), than to go pure vita. You are not allowed to do wrong teleports nor mistakes when facing certain opponents, and inexperienced player will do plenty of those.
Once player gets basic experience with playing windy, he can actually afford to think about going pure vita with DR switch-ins as solution for physical builds. Some characters will still be incredibly hard to beat no matter the experience (bvc, ghost, zealot). Actually in theory you shouldn't really be able to beat good bvc nor good ghost players who should be able to tear you apart if you don't have block. Zealots are possible, but I guess hard to beat, as are possibly other melee paladins to less extent.
But, if you are willing to cripple yourself against certain characters and make yourself a bit stronger against the casters, you can try vita. The thing is, I think that life tradeoff for going for block is worth it cause windy is character who can win against casters, and 1.1k extra life won't make big impact on that winning ratio. But same tradeoff can have huge impact on winning ratio against mentioned physical characters (not ghosts, good players will win against windy be it block or vita, doesn't matter much), who are luckily for windys rather rare showoffs in SPF PvP.
Fair note too: both BvC and ghost are ping depended builds, so as a windy player you can also count on some ping advantage over those. That's why it is possible that vita Windy can actually beat both of those to some extent. I still don't think ghost in a good players hands can be beaten by any windy unless she has like 300 ping or more (beaten like best to 5 or 10, not beaten like any random kill).
General conclusion is this:
Inexperienced vita wind druids = food for pretty much all teleporting physical-damage characters + bowazon.
If player is new to windy build, I'd say it is much better to have vita setup with block backup (basically switching spirit for stormshield), than to go pure vita. You are not allowed to do wrong teleports nor mistakes when facing certain opponents, and inexperienced player will do plenty of those.
Once player gets basic experience with playing windy, he can actually afford to think about going pure vita with DR switch-ins as solution for physical builds. Some characters will still be incredibly hard to beat no matter the experience (bvc, ghost, zealot). Actually in theory you shouldn't really be able to beat good bvc nor good ghost players who should be able to tear you apart if you don't have block. Zealots are possible, but I guess hard to beat, as are possibly other melee paladins to less extent.
But, if you are willing to cripple yourself against certain characters and make yourself a bit stronger against the casters, you can try vita. The thing is, I think that life tradeoff for going for block is worth it cause windy is character who can win against casters, and 1.1k extra life won't make big impact on that winning ratio. But same tradeoff can have huge impact on winning ratio against mentioned physical characters (not ghosts, good players will win against windy be it block or vita, doesn't matter much), who are luckily for windys rather rare showoffs in SPF PvP.
Fair note too: both BvC and ghost are ping depended builds, so as a windy player you can also count on some ping advantage over those. That's why it is possible that vita Windy can actually beat both of those to some extent. I still don't think ghost in a good players hands can be beaten by any windy unless she has like 300 ping or more (beaten like best to 5 or 10, not beaten like any random kill).
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Well said. I agree with most of what you said but you forgot one big thing.
Max is usually hosting. That means ping is a non issue for him. When you have no ping problems it's usually best that you go for fastest fcr breakpoint you can. If I were expected to host every game I'd go with Vita windy BerBer CoA
no questions asked. Fcr means a lot in lag free gameplay.
Max is usually hosting. That means ping is a non issue for him. When you have no ping problems it's usually best that you go for fastest fcr breakpoint you can. If I were expected to host every game I'd go with Vita windy BerBer CoA
no questions asked. Fcr means a lot in lag free gameplay.
Gripp can you please post here the links for your guides? I'm too lazy to search.
Not a guide really, just presentation of my BvC and some reasoning why I made him that way. I updated thread now with exception I didn't put new screenshots, so stats are from older version. But numbers are right and everything else is. I think.
Cold-Blooded Prince Vegeta - PvP BvC
nulio
Well-known member
Cold armors are okay. Thorns are in place when somebody uses Bramble. Amplify damage and Lower Resists are so much better than IM in most cases/builds. I guess I never had thought about IM, but if what I quickly read now is true, I guess it could be banned since a Necro using walls and lots of minions can eventually get a huge deal by IM'ing a WW Barb (but I guess he'd change to zerk to kill the minions).
Anyway it's late
Tomorrow I'll read more stuff.I just dropped by saying that IM is banned according to our current ruleset. Thorns is not however. I tested IM today and it is ridiculously strong against melee builds. I used only 425% iron maiden on nec (Metalgrid offers charges with 475%), and I lost 8k hp with single WW on bone walls from necro (was wearing only 8% DR). 2.9k hp fire golem took me ~1200 life at average per kill (he wasn't bo-ed either). Grizzly same story, I lost like 1k hp just by killing him. Therefore, IM is indeed OP and should be and is banned.
Tests on thorns will take place later today.
Tests on thorns will take place later today.
