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Vessel of Hatred

Starting character untwinked....

O

OU Fiji

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Nov 21, 2004
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Starting character untwinked....

I was wondering what character/build would be the best to use to start fresh, completely untwinked. I also would like to be sure that it will be hell viable and be able to kill efficiently, keeping in mind realistic gear that will be available as a starter. Thanks in advance.

p.s. Fairly item-independent cookie-cutter builds are also welcome
 
Well for easier untwinked chars a simple rule is don't use melee types. They are extremely item dependent (crappy wpn = crappy char). I'd say the easiest would be a blizz sorc, meteorb sorc, hammerdin, wind druid, bone necro, summon necro. Any of those will do decent in hell with simple gear :thumbsup: .
 
Thing is, completely untwinked means you have no idea what gear you're going to have come Hell, because it depends entirely on what you find along the way! You might be the luckiest person on Earth and find a Stormlash and a Stormshield with this character, or you might end up facing Hell Baal with a cracked mace and a defender...

Thus it's difficult to give you any advice here. All you can really do is pick a build which isn't too equipment dependent (sorceress, hammerdin, summoner necro etc) and hope you get lucky.
 
The usual:

necromancer - summoner/CE exploder variety.
paladin - hammerdin
amazon - lightning fury/poison javelin
sorceress - meteorb I guess, I don't play sorcs ... yet.
barb - concentrate barb?

Try the necro first if you haven't already. You can kill on Hell up to players 3 or so efficiently and relatively quickly (slows down considerably on higher players settings without more elite gear) but you can load up on MF gear because he's so efficient. No problems completely untwinked.
 
ahcw said:
Well for easier untwinked chars a simple rule is don't use melee types. They are extremely item dependent (crappy wpn = crappy char). I'd say the easiest would be a blizz sorc, meteorb sorc, hammerdin, wind druid, bone necro, summon necro. Any of those will do decent in hell with simple gear :thumbsup: .
Click to expand...

Exception to these are melee chars doing skill damage. Nothing beats a Lightning Fury/Charged Strike going through normal and nightmare with rediculous ease (even using simple weapons, since she does skill damage). Hell of course is more tricky.

A frost zealot can do very well too melee, and a berserker is not that super hard either.

However, skeleton necromancers have it easy, hammerdins are very strong too. As a third strong I would have to vote LF/CS amazons (with a side skill to kill lightning immunes).

Last point: you dont need any of these obvious cookie cutter builds to have fun untwinked. Many other builds will be much more fun then the easy ones.
 
hehe i just started a zealot :) hardcore, untwinked

i'm wondering when he dies.... :buddies: :cheesy:
 
For a versatile mostly-melee build, I recommend the Talsonsin.

(Copied from another of my posts):


"Try my assassin build that I play in the TWD tourney. You can look at my posts there for more information, but here are her basics:

STR: 95 (so she can use Battle Boots or Scarabshell Boots)
DEX: Enough to keep blocking at ~40% with a 'Rhyme' Grim/Bone Shield
VIT: Everything else

Dragon Talon: 18 or 24 (counting +skills)
Dragon Tail & Dragon Flight: 1 (for utility purposes)

Shadow Master: max
Venom: max
Burst of Speed: ~5
Mind Blast: 1
Cloak of Shadows: 1-max, depending on your taste

Kicking is greatly improved in 1.10. The base damage is mostly dependant on the base type of boots. Almost everything except +%damage is carried over to the kicks from the weapon: Elemental damage, Open Wounds, Crushing Blow, life/mana steal, PMH, etc. This makes her very versatile with weapon selection. I recommend a fast (one-handed, for added safety) weapon, as that is crucial if you want to reach a high kicking speed.

I find my assassin to be a good and versatile fighter. I don´t know is she is Hell viable (only in act 4 NM right now) but I think she is.

I can use her in three basic ways:

* Kicking. Especially good against solo high-HP targets. You need some sort of mana steal (any small amount will do) to be able to use Dragon Talon non-stop.

* Archery. If it´s a very dangerous boss, I switch to bow and let merc and shadow tank it. With maxed Venom and some Burst of Speed, assassins are very respectable archers. Blade Fury would also work well, I think.

* Caster style. Sometimes, a mob is so dangerous, I don´t have the time (or guts) to fight myself. Keep them Cloaked, recast shadow, feed merc potions and spam Mind Blast.

I think any merc will work with this build (not many builds can say that!) but I recommend the melee types, for added safety. The shadow is a good tank, but she´s unpredictible; sometimes she wants to be a trapper and runs away from tanking duty. :lol: "



This was written with Hardcore in mind, so if you don´t play HC, I recommend pumping strength to high levels, so she can strap on Myrmidon Greaves.
 
@jiansonz: I had a HC Tailsin she did well too (tiger strike + dtail, the fire spash kick). Just for a Talonsin really consider a Strength runeword claw as a cheap source for Crushing Blow, Life Leech and a nice +20 strenght boost for the boots and damage.
 
Malachi said:
Just for a Talonsin really consider a Strength runeword claw as a cheap source for Crushing Blow, Life Leech and a nice +20 strenght boost for the boots and damage.
Click to expand...

I know. Strength is cool.
It doesn´t have to be a claw either. A Cutlass or a Kris would work just as well.


Black is the end-game choice for my assassin. She has the runes, but her first attempt on a Knout with the socketing recipe failed her. (it was one that was Crude earlier, fixed with Eld + chippie, so 3 sockets maximum => 2/3 chance to get 3 sockets) :rant:

Anyway, 40% CB, great kick speed (-10 as base WSM and 15 more on top of that) and Corpse Explosion charges looks good to me. The Knockback is not a problem, as Dragon Talon is auto-KB anyway.
 
@jiansonz: damn you ! Now I got to try a Talonsin for my next build. Probably gonna add in some Death Sentry as well since I like splatted corpses.

Ow. And wont the Knockback ruin it for a Talon sin doing 5 kicks but the first with knockback caused next 4 to miss ?
 
I'd say Fishymancer :)

Or, you can do as I did and build a Meteorb sorc, which you can bring quite simply up to nm Mephisto, and then use her as a MFer for starting stuff.
 
more interesting than hammerdin or summoner, the assassin !

she is powerfull in normal, in NM and in hell. She don't need specific items.
 
Vemp said:
I'd say Fishymancer :)

Or, you can do as I did and build a Meteorb sorc, which you can bring quite simply up to nm Mephisto, and then use her as a MFer for starting stuff.
Click to expand...

The point of playing untwinked is to NOT get into that silly MF routine and play the game with what you find, not with the obvious unique and set choices available after a lot of MF'ing :yawn:
 
Malachi said:
Ow. And wont the Knockback ruin it for a Talon sin doing 5 kicks but the first with knockback caused next 4 to miss ?
Click to expand...

The first series of kicks can do that, but you quickly learn to do some micro-maneuvering around your target so you can find something to pin it against:
* A wall or other obstacle.
* Shadow
* Merc (another reason to pick a melee merc, because they tend to stay put)
* Other monsters

Sometimes the knockback is also a great tool. Take a boss pack with a nasty aura, for example. Cast Cloak of Shadows, then kick the boss so far away from the minions that they don´t find you when the Cloaking wears off, or at least don´t get to you before the boss is dead.
 
@jiansonz: I just started my 'Untwinked - The New Generation' and a Talonsin will fill one of the 7 spots (one of each class, Hardcore, nu muling except between the 7 chars, lowest and highest chars can be only 10 levels apart to prevent using high items too early if found, FE mod and additional 3 realm runewords are possible). A Septa that I never officially started although I have many untwinked guardians and Septa wont fit since it condemns the use of the FE mod.

Not sure where I will go with her yet, dTalon does not need tiger strike but it sure seems claw mastery is nice for AR and CS. I am not even sure I want to use a shadow yet and I am looking into a dtalon/tail hybrid or a dtalon/PS one for some elemental damage when needed (fire from tail or PS fire with synergy to spam meteors when needed, I still need to do the damage calculus).

So far:

Paladin Azrael - Avenger
Amazon Heather - LF/SC with FA
Barbarian Thor - Berserker
Necromancer Death - Bonemancer
Sorcerer Shandala - not sure yet, probably a boring Meteorb or some Lightning variant
Druid Sacred - Wind druid (never made one)
Assassin Anna - Talonsin unless I change my mind
 
Malachi said:
The point of playing untwinked is to NOT get into that silly MF routine and play the game with what you find, not with the obvious unique and set choices available after a lot of MF'ing :yawn:
Click to expand...

As he has only posted twice, I thought that he intended to build a char which could play untwinked to start a SP carrier (as I did just a couple months ago).

I'm sorry if I have misunderstood the point of the request :)

Oh, and OU Fiji, could I suggest you to post an intro thread, so we can learn a little about you?
 
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