SP: Freezadin Weapon?

[Oldboy]

Re: SP: Freezadin Weapon?

After roughly 200+ NM Meph runs for better gear... I'd finally gotten my dream piece.

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/6084/sphoz.png

Wow, nice! You lucky bastard lol

Am I right on this, or can I actually find PBs in both Mausoleum & Pits in act 1 Hell? I've done a couple of runs of both locations and sadly I have not found a single one. The speed at which I clear these locations are slow given that I rely on my Cold dmg mostly, and weak (for Hell games) physical dmg from Aldur's mace. Can someone enlighten me?

My understanding of it is that those areas are both L85 and can drop any item in the game. PB's are qlvl 73 so should drop off any monster L73 or higher. They should drop in the Crypt too, which is L83.

They seem rare though. I'm in Act 5 and have still only seen 2 PB's (one white and one with 3os luckily enough), both of which dropped in Act 3 Lower Kurast. (I spent a lot of time there after finding an armor rack that liked to drop paladin shields quite frequently. And I found a Sur rune in a log there, which unfortunately is pretty useless to me on it's own, if only it had been Lo...).

I do think Crescent Moon was worth spending my only Um on, I'm pretty happy with how it's going so far.

 

[wickedswami]

Re: SP: Freezadin Weapon?

small question: Am I the only one who uses charge?

I use it to travel, to initiate my attacks and to single out boss monsters(since charge knocks them back).

For example, with some good positioning in the CS, you can single out lord the seis and kill him before his fanatic friends reach you, stripping them of their aura and making them a lot easier to kill.

 

[Scoobydoo]

Re: SP: Freezadin Weapon?

I almost never use Charge while in Normal games due to having too low mana pool during low levels. Started using it in NM and Hell games as a means to "charge" at mobs to get to them faster. Helpful for taking out low hp mobs and when they "move away" from me which makes my Zeal attacks miss.

I have my attack skills set as Zeal first, Charge second, and Smite as third. Being at high levels now and having placed 1pt into Vigor for getting around faster, I tend to use charge to maneuver in Durance levels to get pass mobs I do not want to waste time on.

 

[Azaar]

Re: SP: Freezadin Weapon?

At this point, I've pretty much decided I despise Black. The knockback is counter-productive to killing because I have to give chase to Zeal (though I'm dying a fair bit as well playing softcore -- I swear, the game is out to get me with all the CI or Conviction Aura-Enchanted types I've seen in Act 1 Nightmare. Right now, I'm trying to slog through Catacombs 3 to get to Andariel and get into Act 2. Hopefully there, I won't see quite so many CI types. Unfortunately, unless some five-socket weapons (still hoping on a knout) don't drop soon so that I can make Honor, I'm liable to get frustrated even more than I already am. I feel like I wasted that Io rune now.

 

[Scoobydoo]

Re: SP: Freezadin Weapon?

I'd used Black flail as my primary Zeal weapon after I made it, and I had similar experiences as you did (concerning the unfriendliness of knockback). There are some tricks that can counter the knockback effects; such as pinning them against a wall, moving ahead of them after the first knockback and allowing the range of your flail to land a second hit, etc. But ultimately, I think we can all agree that Black flail or just about any weapon with knockback mod just isn't Zeal friendly.

What I would recommend is keeping it as a switch weapon (naturally with a shield ) for smiting bosses, and use Strength or some other weapon as your primary.

As for 5os weapons, I think someone mentioned that NM games doesn't drop naturally occurring 5socketed weapons. BUT, un-socketed weapons "capable" of being 5socketed can be used in conjunction with our Norm act 5 Larzuk quest. Which is what I did when I found my zero socket superior 15ED 3AR Knout that I turned into Honor.


Edits: Actually, I do not often encounter many cold immunes in NM games. The only ones that comes to mind are mostly random unique mob bosses, and they aren't all that hard to kill. Conviction can be a pain if you do not have enough resist, especially more so if the boss pulses charged lightning bolts. I hate those too. They can be a major pain in Hell games too, even without their nasty conviction aura.

 

[Oldboy]

Re: SP: Freezadin Weapon?

Yes, pretty much what Scoobydoo said about Black. Great for bosses (you'll get good use out of it farming NM Meph), horrible for general play. It's not a total waste, and Io runes are more common later on anyway.

Oh, I also got some use out of it when I first started Hell in poor equipment and *wanted* stuff away from me (because I'd die if crowded).

What he said about 5os weapons too. They don't drop until Hell. The only way to get one in NM, without trading, is through Larzuk.

I just beat Hell btw, in the gear I posted earlier. Nearly all NM Meph gear, the only upgrades I got after that were the Crescent Moon PB and +39 resist all Spirit shield. For sure, it got very rough in WSK (I won't be MF'ing in that place lol), and I got lucky with Ancients (only dangerous one was the whirlwind guy with mana burn and I think extra strong), and I kindof cheesed Baal's minions by standing well back when he spawned them and luring them out a couple at a time. But I did it!

NM Meph is the key. I guess that's true for most classes. The gear you can get from him is enough to solo Hell. Keep going!

 

[Azaar]

Re: SP: Freezadin Weapon?

I'll just hope for the best, then. If I can find a knout or a superior knout (or even a good divine scepter with +2/+3 Holy Freeze, I'm not picky *grins*), I'll make certain to stash it ASAP for Larzuk -- I used the Normal socket on the jagged star I got in Act 1 NM (I finally made it to Act 2 just a few minutes ago) to make Black on it. As soon as I can find a 2os jagged star and a chipped amethyst for cubing up an Amn (I have four Thuls right now), I'll make Strength on it, and switch between Strength and Black (though I wish I had a means of life steal -- that, more than anything, is what's killing me right now). At least I have all the runes I need to assemble Honor -- that's the important thing.

 

[Scoobydoo]

Re: SP: Freezadin Weapon?

My understanding of it is that those areas are both L85 and can drop any item in the game. PB's are qlvl 73 so should drop off any monster L73 or higher. They should drop in the Crypt too, which is L83.

They seem rare though. I'm in Act 5 and have still only seen 2 PB's (one white and one with 3os luckily enough), both of which dropped in Act 3 Lower Kurast. (I spent a lot of time there after finding an armor rack that liked to drop paladin shields quite frequently. And I found a Sur rune in a log there, which unfortunately is pretty useless to me on it's own, if only it had been Lo...).

I do think Crescent Moon was worth spending my only Um on, I'm pretty happy with how it's going so far.

So far, my lucky streak is holding out and I finally found a 3os PB (naturally 3os upon first drop) in Hell act 2 inside Halls of the Dead (the place we get our cube). I had to consult with the MF calculator to see are the earliest places we can find PBs and that is where I decided to add to my MF runs for it.

The roll was pretty good and it turned out 213ED with 10 magic absorb, and the best part about using PBs is that it is indestructible; saving me many trips back to town to get my Aldur's mace repaired. The ITD and Static procs works pretty much as it should, and I'm considering removing some of my AR gcs to make space for more drops, but I am rather undecided on that ATM, since I will need the AR for Champions and bosses, plus I don't really find much stuff to sell anyways. The only thing that kinda sucked after removing my Aldur's mace was that I loose 10% life leech and 5% mana leech, but I still have my SoE to rely on for minor life leech, and the 2mana back from Crescent Moon does help with Zealing so far (not as much as in NM, since killing at least 1 mob per Zeal isn't guaranteed in Hell and manaburn mobs are irritating - they always are).

 

[Azaar]

Re: SP: Freezadin Weapon?

Sadly, I can't take screenshots, but at least now I know RWM is working! Found a four-socket rune sword, and after going back to Act 1 Normal following the assembly of the Horadric Staff, I found a chipped topaz to cube three of my four Thul runes into an Amn. The result:

Spirit (rune sword -- One-Handed Damage 10-42): +2 to all skills, +31% faster cast rate, +55% faster hit recovery, adds 1-50 lightning damage, adds 3-14 cold damage, +75 poison damage over 5 seconds, 7% life steal, +250 Defense vs. missiles, +22 Vitality, +108 mana, +8 magic absorb

Black is retired, for the time being, sitting in my stash -- I may break it out for Duriel when that fight comes, but for now, I can be a Vengeful Frost Zealot with my modified lvl 25 Holy Freeze, and have decent amount of life leech.

Now, to find a Lum (I had a Ko drop on me, so I know Lum can drop now at this point), and I can finish assembling Smoke in a two-socket ancient armor I found at the end of Act 1 NM.

Update: Lo and behold, a Lem rune falls. Just need a three-socket armor to drop, and my merc will be enjoying the benefits of Treachery. Still looking for a Lum drop for my Smoke, and another Dol (though if I find another Shael, I can cube them for another Dol), and have my Dol requirements for both CoH and Exile.

 

[Scoobydoo]

Re: SP: Freezadin Weapon?

OK, I have to confess. Even after making my Crescent Moon PB and having a Hoz, I find this build barely viable in Hell games. While I am able to kill stuff given enough time and pots, the offensive capabilities is sorely lacking while attempting to balance out survivability in terms of available gear and skill allocation. Honestly, I did already expect meeting cold immunes in Hell games, without a powerful weapon for physical dmg to compliment it, it is extremely taxing (I miss the kill speed of my Grief on bnet ).

I have a good mind to restat to a Enigma-less Hammerdin. And based on the skill calculator, it does seem to do more dmg compared to a Freezadin. The only problem I foresee is handling act 5's second wave of Baal minions.

Sigh...

 

[Azaar]

Re: SP: Freezadin Weapon?

I'm having troubles as well, myself -- and I'm still in Act 2 NM, preparing to full-clear the Canyon of the Magi and the false tombs. However, I'm pondering making a run on Normal to gather a few items for magic find (like trying to hunt up Chance Gloves and a Tarnhelm or Stealskull (Shako is gonna be out of reach, I suspect), so that when I'm ready to run Durance 3 and Mephisto to prepare for Hell, I have good MF to help me with getting stuff like HoZ.

However, I did just find something that looks promising: http://www.purediablo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=386143 -- the Teslafroster with a balance of cold and lightning by maxing out Holy Freeze/Holy Shock/Resist Cold/Resist Lightning. Though really, I'm wondering if perhaps consideration shouldn't be given to finding a means by which all three auras could be on hand. Likely will be highly item-dependent to save on skill points, and I'm not sure if multiple of the same auras still stack, but the consideration of Dream helm & shield (two level 15 Holy Shock auras), coupled with Hand of Justice and Dragon armor (level 16 and 14 Holy Fire auras, respectively), with some points in Resist Fire and Resist Lightning for synergy to complement maxing out Holy Freeze and Resist Cold?

Then you'd have a tri-elemental Vengeful Auradin -- that way, even with the damnable dual-immunes (and I've run into several already in Nightmare), you still have a means of elemental damage. All you'd need is a solid weapon with magic damage and some poison damage to run the entire gamut of damage capabilities. Of course, trying to balance such a build would be the thing. Salvation might well become more important in such a build, since each point would then synergize with all three auras, but some points in the various Resist Cold/Fire/Lightning would still work since they still have the larger synergy bonus. And you still would need to blend in Zeal and Sacrifice somehow. Likely would end up lower damage overall for each aura, but having all three auras at your disposal might be worth it, if it's possible.

Edit: Of course, the problem then becomes that you're likely deep into Hell before this build is truly viable, assuming you're roughing it in SP, since the high runes won't be dropping until late Hell. Still, it's an intriguing thought.

Edit #2: Lo and behold -- Clervis has a PvM Auradin build using the same equipment (see here at Clerv's PvM Auradin Guide), but focusing on Conviction instead of Holy Freeze (though using an Act 1 merc with Ice, an Act 2 NM Offensive merc with any of several runewords, or a Prayer/Defiance Act 2 merc with Doom for that Holy Freeze are among the mercenary options listed as worthy of consideration). Still, the problem is going to be getting the runes, or having the equipment on hand already by the time things come available (Dream helm/shield at level 65, Dragon at 63, Hand of Justice at 67) and making it that long.

 

[magicrectangle]

Re: SP: Freezadin Weapon?

I have a good mind to restat to a Enigma-less Hammerdin. And based on the skill calculator, it does seem to do more dmg compared to a Freezadin. The only problem I foresee is handling act 5's second wave of Baal minions.

Sigh...

You could respec tesladin and still use the same gear (heck crescent moon is even better for a tesla), grab a holy freeze merc to make up for the loss of your own freeze. Your damage won't be amazing, but it will be better than freeze.

Hammerdin is just so overplayed.

 

[Scoobydoo]

Re: SP: Freezadin Weapon?

I think for a first character either on bnet Ladder Reset or SP, an untweaked Freezadin can bring you throughout Norm & NM, and probably as far as Hell act 1 & 2 (if you are lucky in the drops dept). After that, things will get extremely rough especially in Hell act 3 onwards without decent gear. While the nature of the 3 different types of aura based paladins relies entirely on their skills for dmg, they will be kinda screwed in Hell games where we will encounter immunes of various kinds. And unlike sorcs who can go dual tree to counter these problems even untweaked, it isn't as viable for us. Unless we have extreme luck in drops for a decently high physical dmg weapon, I suspect most will restat to a hdin once hitting Hell games.

I honestly thought that having a Hoz drop and eventually making Crescent Moon will carry me all the way to the end, but as of now, I dread the mobs in Crystalline Passage and Icy Cellars where I will be rendered helpless. Even the "trang-like" vampire mobs in Act 3 are giving me a hard time with max'ed fire resist; haha .

 

[magicrectangle]

Re: SP: Freezadin Weapon?

I've gone all the way through the end of hell with a shock/freeze "dual element" build with crescent moon. In order to have both auras and decent synergies you can't max zeal (IIRC I maxed shock and freeze, resist lightning and salvation), so you really need the ITD from crescent moon, and I used a demon limb on switch to get the AR from enchant for bosses (just 'cause it dropped).

 

[wickedswami]

Re: SP: Freezadin Weapon?

why on earth would anyone use crescent moon on a FROST zealot?

it has: -35% To Enemy Lightning Resistance not -35% To Enemy Cold Resistance...
I know the other mods are kinda good, but it's totally not worth it.

Why not go with Voice of Reason?

15% Chance To Cast Level 13 Frozen Orb On Striking
18% Chance To Cast Level 20 Ice Blast On Striking(freezes units)
+50 To Attack Rating
+220-350% Damage To Demons(all bosses are demons)
+355-375% Damage To Undead (varies)
+50 To Attack Rating Against Undead
Adds 100-220 Cold Damage
-24% To Enemy Cold Resistance
+10 To Dexterity
Cannot Be Frozen(always nice to have)
75% Extra Gold From Monsters
+1 To Light Radius

I know it doesn't have the ITD, but there are ways around that.

 

[Azaar]

Re: SP: Freezadin Weapon?

Probably for much of the same reason most tend to shy away from Doom -- you're putting all your eggs into one basket with cold damage, and that isn't smart when you find yourself in Hell, surrounded by Cold Immune normal zombies -- having played a Lightning-only Sorceress in D2C before LoD came out, I can tell you that it isn't fun to see half of your normal monsters in Hell being immune to your only method of damage-dealing -- I was scrambling for alternative skills in the other trees, and was kicking myself for not planning ahead in that manner.

Crescent Moon offers an alternative means of elemental damage vs. CI monsters, and the chance to cast Static Field is an advantage that cannot be underestimated by any means. With it, then you only have to worry about the dual-immune CI/LI types, which opens up a lot more options.

I mean, if you want to be cold-only purist, it's your right. Wear Duress, wield Doom or Voice of Reason. Just don't be surprised when it takes forever to kill normal monsters because you lack the physical damage capability due to your over-reliance on cold damage.

 

[magicrectangle]

Re: SP: Freezadin Weapon?

Crescent moon has %ED instead of %ED to demons/undead (which to spite being "on weapon" is treated as off weapon, and therefor not nearly as awesome)

Crescent moon is faster

Crescent moon has ITD

Crescent moon has CtC static

-24% enemy cold resist is nice, but it isn't as nice as all that stuff.

 

[Azaar]

Re: SP: Freezadin Weapon?

Scoobydoo: Just finished Act 2 NM. Level 60 now. Two more levels and I'll max out Zeal, and then likely work on Resist Cold or Sacrifice. I easily whiffed half the time or more on Duriel, with 3300 AR or thereabouts (and this is with two rare rings that give me a little over 100 AR and a charm with some AR [don't recall how much]) -- went through four super heals and seven full rejuvenations to do it, and his drop was crap (color me unsurprised). I'd swap out for a Blessed Aim merc in Normal, but I like having Defiance (even though I know high block rate is supposed to trump Defense).

Hopefully Act 3 will run a bit more smoothly, and hopefully I can find some more magic find for when I start running Mephisto (I made Rhyme for 25% MF, have a magic ring with 18% MF, Nagelring with 30% MF, and rare sharkskin gloves with 22% MF, so I've got 95% MF right now. With Rhyme, I'm still sitting at 64% fire and 74% cold resist (cold maxes at 78% currently, with Resist Cold's passive bonus and all), and maxed lightning and poison resists in NM -- unfortunately, I couldn't find a two-socket pally shield to ensure my resists would stay maxed, and wound up having to settle for a kite shield from Act 2 Normal -- otherwise, I'd be using it all the time and have Ancient's Pledge on standby for when I need more defense.

 

[Scoobydoo]

Re: SP: Freezadin Weapon?

why on earth would anyone use crescent moon on a FROST zealot?

it has: -35% To Enemy Lightning Resistance not -35% To Enemy Cold Resistance...
I know the other mods are kinda good, but it's totally not worth it.

Why not go with Voice of Reason?

I know it doesn't have the ITD, but there are ways around that.

Well, for one, I have not had a Lem rune drop, and if I did, I would make Treachery outta it benefit from the Fade proc for constant max'ed resist and passive 15%DR, Venom proc for an additional elemental bonus vs cold immunes, 45IAS for Zeal, and additional FHR.

The other reasons being that I have been rather crippled when facing cold immunes, and the lack of ED & non-cold dmg bonus from VoR isn't practically helpful to me at this time. What I'm hoping for is a way to compliment my primary cold dmg source with other sources of dmg like higher physical and other elemental dmg. If I were on bnet and not on SP, I wouldn't mind trying VoR out, as the option of other available gear from trade makes it easier to make an viable Freezadin that is viable for Hell games.

 

[Azaar]

Re: SP: Freezadin Weapon?

Well, for one, I have not had a Lem rune drop, and if I did, I would make Treachery outta it benefit from the Fade proc for constant max'ed resist and passive 15%DR, Venom proc for an additional elemental bonus vs cold immunes, 45IAS for Zeal, and additional FHR.

The other reasons being that I have been rather crippled when facing cold immunes, and the lack of ED & non-cold dmg bonus from VoR isn't practically helpful to me at this time. What I'm hoping for is a way to compliment my primary cold dmg source with other sources of dmg like higher physical and other elemental dmg. If I were on bnet and not on SP, I wouldn't mind trying VoR out, as the option of other available gear from trade makes it easier to make an viable Freezadin that is viable for Hell games.

I've been lucky on that -- I did have a Lem drop in Act 2 NM (still waiting for my Lum for making Smoke). I'm just waiting for a three-socket armor to appear (that isn't a breast plate), and my mercenary will be wearing it (with the rare NM Charsi-imbued lance he's using, he needs the IAS more than I do).

Update: Lo and behold, just after getting my 20 life in Act 3, a Lum drops. Thank God, Smoke is now made and being worn. Between that, Ancient's Pledge, a 30% resist all chromatic amulet and some other assorted resists in equipment and charms, I'm pretty well over the max on resistances in Nightmare now (and likely pretty solid on resistances when Hell comes around). Guess I can use Rhyme now with no fear for the extra 25% magic find.