Skills/trees that need improvements

vdzele

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Jun 23, 2003
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Skills/trees that need improvements

Why don't we add our own suggestions and support this thread

Ill start with agreeing that:

Paladin:

Holy Fire - needs a HUGE buff
Thorns - needs a HUGE buff
Concentration - needs a nerf. slight Blessed Hammer bonus reduction - or reduce blessed hammer
Holy Freeze - needs a HUGE buff
Fanaticism - its fine
Conviction - its fine
Resist Fire - its fine
Resist Cold -its fine
Resist Lightning -its fine
Defiance -its fine
Charge -its fine - needs to be bug fixed so you can actually play it
Vengeance -needs a huge buff (its too slow) - I don't agree on this, perhaps slightly more speed (not more than 20)
 
Re: Skills/trees that need improvements

Disagree with Holy Freeze, disagree with Vengeance.

Other things from that thread I disagree with:

Inner Sight could actually be useful if it lowered enemy defense by a percentage.

Zeal -needs a buff in AR.

Teleport: add a 2-10 sec cooldown, decreases with every native point down to 0 sec at lvl20 (fixes enimga and makes sosos put points into tele) [highlight]Ugh, no.[/highlight]

Change strafe and multishot from 3/4 weapon damage to 5/4 weapon damage

3. Improve Leap Attack by vastly increasing damage done, but giving it a small cooldown (1 second) [highlight]This does nothing then. -_-[/highlight]

-Improve Double Swing an Frenzy slightly.

-Improve Holy Shock.

- Skeletons can be summoned like Golems. Corpses are no more requiered

I do admit, there are some great ideas in that thread though. Conceptually that is, not number-wise.
 
Re: Skills/trees that need improvements

Here's one taken from my experience in Torchlight. Add a new minion type for necromancers 'Blood Skeleton' These skeletons are similar to Blood Golem, the benefit being they use the same mastery as the skeletons. Would actually be more beneficial than Mages.
 
Re: Skills/trees that need improvements

Here's one taken from my experience in Torchlight. Add a new minion type for necromancers 'Blood Skeleton' These skeletons are similar to Blood Golem, the benefit being they use the same mastery as the skeletons. Would actually be more beneficial than Mages.

Idk...I figure he already has a ton of minions. Maybe they should just buff the skeleton mages?

Why don't we add our own suggestions and support this thread

Ill start with agreeing that:

Paladin:

Holy Fire - needs a HUGE buff
Thorns - needs a HUGE buff
Concentration - needs a nerf. slight Blessed Hammer bonus reduction - or reduce blessed hammer
Holy Freeze - needs a HUGE buff
Fanaticism - its fine
Conviction - its fine
Resist Fire - its fine
Resist Cold -its fine
Resist Lightning -its fine
Defiance -its fine
Charge -its fine - needs to be bug fixed so you can actually play it
Vengeance -needs a huge buff (its too slow) - I don't agree on this, perhaps slightly more speed (not more than 20)

I don't know how you kept this so short; I was expecting a giant list given all the TOTALLY NECESSARY changes. One thing concerns me: instead of buffing the useless skills, why not nerf down the ridiculously OP'd ones? Like how about fireball doing 24-25k at lev 50 when lev 50 exploding arrow does only a few k...what is up with that? They should nerf fireball. See, if they just boost up all the currently crappy skills, the retardedly easy game becomes even more easy. I say they should either double monsters life in hell mode or start toning everything down by several k.


 
Re: Skills/trees that need improvements

I agree about fireball. The reason I did not put more observations is because I mostly play as a zealot and few more. Simple as that. I can't speak about the things I don't know.

I could suggest that Blizz could create well balanced game if they max and cap all offensive skills at, lets say 5-6k with regular gear (rear and common unique and runewords) and with uber gear (crafted, rear unique and high-end runewords) cap it at ~10k. And they could (but they won't) push all low and mid offense skills to those levels using synergies. This way will have much more balanced game and more different builds. Now we have bunch of useless skills and exploits in the game such as fireball sorceress with 50-60k damage.

I know that this could be easily done, now when people know all maximums and minimums of each class\skill\item.

One more thing - people like exploits, that is our main problem.
 
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Re: Skills/trees that need improvements

I mostly play as a necromancer, which is my specialty. I sadly know very little about the other classes (I never even bothered with the amazon and paladin for longer than an hour)..


What needs changing with the necromancer skills


Raise Skeleton = I would like to see more variety here without changing stats (or not much). Skeletons with duel swords, flails, hammers, axes etc. Skeletons have this only at the lower levels when they change in appearance, and I was sad to learn that it goes away afterwards. This is purely a novelty suggestion though

Summon mages = Decrease chances of summoning poison mages. Add Magic mages. Have Fire Golem/bone skills (except CE, Pdagger, Pexplosion) function as synenergies for mage damage output. Fire mages = fire immune, ice mages = ice immune, etc.

Golem Mastery = I think it should boost the golems HP and dmg a lot more. Golems are supposed to be the walls, but skeletons outclass them in every way. A fully mastered golemancer will see his golem (iron golem excluded) die against even act1 hell minions if it's 2 vs 1

Blood Golem = dear god increase the damage output and the HP absorbed. The most useless minion in all of D2. Even the Ravens are more useful than this blob.

Fire Golem = Increase his poison resistance to 100%. Fire golem doesnt have blood, its bull how he can die (very fast) from even tiny hits of poison.
*** Additional change = Transform him from fire golem into Magic Golem, or Spectral Golem. This way he can at least be semi useful in hellmode (Spectral golem having a random holy fire/thunder/freeze aura at summoning, freeze being of very short duration)


Teeth = Multiple teeth should be able to hit an enemy more than once.
Spirit = allow spirit (both for necro and enemy casters) to seek out the weakest monster in a mob.

Iron Maiden = increase dmg by a large amount, or remove it alltogether. Its just not good the way it is.
Weaken = Should weaken an enemy by a larger amount. At the moment its a skill nobody ever uses.
Decripify = Should take synenergies from Weaken, Clay Golem. More points in those skills should increase the amount of slowdown% and lessen dmg% dealt.
 
Re: Skills/trees that need improvements

skills that imo need to be modified:

zon skills:

magic arrow = 100% magic damage, should be similar to berserk skill on barb.

strafe + multi shot = more ar + dmg

guided arrow = more dmg

immolation arrow = remove cooldown

inner sight = do something about it, completely useless

fix fend bug

sins skills

do something with their ma skills. traps and passive skills looks okayish to me.

necros skills​

pretty much what michel said, and add some damage to psn dagger and bone spells.

barbs skills

make some of their skills usable, there only WW + frenzie and 1pt into zerk, zerkers, singers and bo barbs, come on, this class must rawr before other classes, there isnt much to chose, what happened to leap attack? make it nearly 1 hit kill ( like charge on dins ) or stun, its like completely useless, no damage low ar, and stun is neglecting in hell mode.

paladin skills​

fix aura's. if it increasies physical damage, do not increase magical damage with it. let hammers be as they are, get aura's sorted.

my beloved sorc​

fix inferno, make more damage per frame, make it useful.

make lighting tree powerful. if not for infi, lighting would be next to useless. increase base CB damage, make CL should be less mana consumable, and teleport should have cool down, at level 10 cool down should be removed ( level 20 is a bit too much imo )

cold tree: pretty fine as it is.

fire tree: fix flipping hydras, and get rid of delay on meteor, so annoying.

over all for sorc, fix -enemy resistance stuff, if your CM gets -100 CR, you shouldnt have cold immune then!!!!!!!!

cant speak up for druids, rarely played with them.
 
Re: Skills/trees that need improvements

Some things I thought that needed a buff. Of course, more powerful stuff needs a debuff, but I need to get to bed! :D

Druid
Fire Elemental: more damage, maybe castable while transformed
Firestorm: remove the Hurricane prerequisite
Summon Spirit/Dire Wolf, Summon Grizzly: allow all to be summoned at the same time

Necromancer
Skeletal Mage: MORE damage!
Golems: again, more damage

Paladin
Sacrifice: add synergy that decrease damage done to self. For example, have Prayer lower the damage by 0,2% per level, so that when Prayer is maxed, the damage done to self is 4%. Maybe have Zeal act as a synergy as well, by giving an additional attack each 10 levels (so three attacks max). Additional attacks do not do damage to yourself.
Vengeance: have a synergy that increases physical damage (though not elemental damage)
Conversion: have aura's affect converted monsters
Fist of the Heavens: Prayer: -1 Frame Cooldown per Level, add chance to stun
Might: also increase the damage bonus from strength.
Holy Fire: the fire/cold/lightning concept seems so easy: cold does the lowest damage, but slows enemy. Fire is next, but has no effects. Lightning does the most damage, but is unreliable. Make it so that Holy Fire does more damage then Holy Freeze, though not as much as Holy Shock.
Blessed Aim: add 1% chance of a critical hit per level
Sanctuary: just FIX it already! Stop embarrasing yourself, Blizzard.

Sorceress
Cold Armors: Frost Nova synergy: add chance to cast Frost Nova
Blaze: add faster run/walk
Meteor: make it half physical, half fire
Masteries in general: add effects to skills, like an additial jet per 10 levels to Inferno, chance to pierce for Firebolt, faster Charged Bolts, extra hits for Chain Lightning, chance to stun for Thunder Storm

Barbarian
Iron Skin: change to damage reduction
Bash: add chance of crushing blow
Whirlwind: instead of reducing the mana cost that 1.13 did, have Increased Stamina do it as a synergy. I mean, it was already the best Barbarian melee skill.
 
Re: Skills/trees that need improvements

If they're not going to make warmth synergize inferno, they should at least remove the lying text in the skill tree. Also, remove lying text about zon's AR bonus on bow skills [her AR bonuses do not apply at all].
 
Re: Skills/trees that need improvements

Amazon
I still don't get the cooldown on immolation arrow. What exactly is cheap about it..? Spamming mass frozen arrows, keeping a mob frozen indefinently, isn't? I don't understand what they were thinking. Not like immolation arrow can compete with fireball/firewall, not by a longshot. Guess the makers never seen an Ice wielding frozen arrow amazon in action....

The amazon's only pure melee skills need alot of improving. If you use a 2 hand spear or a jav, it's only fair if fend and jab are uninterruptible(not even 20 enemies attacking you won't even make you pause for a nanosecond). It's insanely unfair that the paladin gets such unfair advantages. If it wasn't bad enough that the paladin can top over 20000 defense and 75% block with holy shield, already making him nearly untouchable, plus he deals massive damage with a 1 hand weapon, but he's got smite that always hits, and zeal that's uninterruptible. Like he needs that when monsters have a 20-5% chance to hit him anyways. Hell, even the massively ABUSED hammerdin gets a piece of that lame cheapness.

But what about her? All your left with are WEAK javelins, and if you want more damage you have to give up that shield. All dodge and avoid does is decrease your killing speed and slow down your damages taken. The paladin makes zero sacrafices;( Completely turns 98% of players off from making a melee amazon(not a broken cs zon).

A jab zon with the most godly of gear still struggles often while a zealot with mediocre gear breezes through hell like he was rushing someone in normal.

They buffed up the paladin from 1.09 to 1.10 like about.... 2000%. They can't bother to at least fix a few skills that are nearly useless?

Assassin
Traps: Her lighting traps are more than good enough as they are, but her fire ones need a big damage boost. Despite inferno's damage it kills MUCH slower than lighting sentry and wake of fire is just pitiful in pvm.

Her blade traps could use alot of enhancements.
First of all, blade fury's AR is = to your base AR, which requires you to be entirely dependent on ITD and tons of %AR boosts. The skill's damage is fine, but it should have an %AR boost in the skill, like 30% AR at level 1 and +8% or so more to AR each level so you no longer have to depend on weapons that ignore target defense, and act2 mercs with blessed aim.

Blade sentinel could use improved damage. It's not very helpful later on unless you've got a 1 hand weapon with sick damage. And it's also buggy. When your spamming another attack, your have to click like crazy with summon a sentinel, you can't just click once. If you spam an attack, stop, then quickly try to cast sentinel, you do the animation, but you never release one unless you try repeatily.

Blade shield is the least useful. Needs a big damage boost or remove the stupid durability reduction, how does it wear out your weapon anyways?

Her elemental skills in the MA tree need a huge damage boost. Get em to level 46+ and your still dependent on a merc with infinity cause the damage is THAT bad. Dragon tail is a messed up skill also, in many ways.
 
Re: Skills/trees that need improvements

Why don't we add our own suggestions and support this thread

Ill start with agreeing that:

Paladin:

Holy Fire - needs a HUGE buff
Thorns - needs a HUGE buff
Concentration - needs a nerf. slight Blessed Hammer bonus reduction - or reduce blessed hammer
Holy Freeze - needs a HUGE buff

Hell no.
Holy fire is a level 6 skill, it should be weak. That's why it's level 6. Thorns might need a small buff but it's still just level 6 (or 1) and hence should be all the strong.
Holy freeze is perfect as it is. It indeed doesn't offer all that much damage compared to holy shock though it offers so much defence that it's more then good enough.
Fine, it's centred around those few exceptions that aren't completely focused on damage, those to value defensive measures high. But in it's small segment, it does a great job - and we can't ask much more for a lower level skill, now can we?



 
Re: Skills/trees that need improvements

and we can't ask much more for a lower level skill, now can we?

Yes we can. I think that all skills should be playable in hell using synergies that will boost them. I use Zeal in hell and that is a low level skill. Smiters use Smite that is level 1 !! Sorc uses Fireball that is also low level skill.

The point is to push other skills that are never been used in D2, by boosting their base damage + giving them synergies AND nerfing those who make 50-60k such as fireball in full uber gear.

I could agree in some cases, such as Holy Freeze, if a skill gives you both defense and offense capabilities that one of them could be much stronger than the other. example: max 2k damage and half defense as Defiance. But Holy Freeze is to weak in both ways, you can't clean throne room as smiter using lvl 1 Smite.

This way we will have much more balanced game and more builds.



 
Re: Skills/trees that need improvements

DRUID

Elemental Skills

Firestorm: can use a small damage boost, but overall doing fine
Molten Boulder: boost damage at least 50%, make it 'pierce' (continue rolling after damaging monster)
Arctic Blast: needs repairing; lower mana cost
Cyclone Armor: fine
Fissure: fine
Twister: completely useless now; make stun length much longer so it's useful
Volcano: boost damage enough to make it a fast boss killer
Tornado: fine
Hurricane: fine
Armageddon: remove 5 wind prerequisites, increase area of effect from falling 'meteors', so the effect is more predictable.

Shape Shifting
Werewolf: fine
Lycanthropy: fine
Werebear: more defense and/or life (partly fixed in 1.13)
Maul: remove charge-up effect or make it much faster
Feral Rage: remove charge-up effect or make it faster
Fireclaws: fine, make Armageddon a synergy so it becomes a nice combo
Rabies: Make it work faster and not drop games in PvM
Shock Wave: fine
Hunger: fine, increase damage done with more skill points invested
Fury: fine

Summoning

Raven: One minion per skill point, i.e. 20-30 ravens flying around
Poison Creeper: higher damage and wider damage radius
Spirit Wolves: Make them deal magic damage so they become useful (vs Dire Wolves)
Oak Sage: fine
Carrion Vine: steeper increase in heal% to make investment useful
Heart of Wolverine: fine
Dire Wolves: boost life/defense so they can survive longer vs. hard-hitting monsters in Hell
Solar Creeper: increase mana recovery (a lot)
Spirit of Barbs: increase Thorns effect so it actually works.
Grizzly: fine, perhaps improve AI so he doesn't lag behind.
 
Re: Skills/trees that need improvements

Hell no.
Holy fire is a level 6 skill, it should be weak. That's why it's level 6. Thorns might need a small buff but it's still just level 6 (or 1) and hence should be all the strong.
Holy freeze is perfect as it is. It indeed doesn't offer all that much damage compared to holy shock though it offers so much defence that it's more then good enough.
Fine, it's centred around those few exceptions that aren't completely focused on damage, those to value defensive measures high. But in it's small segment, it does a great job - and we can't ask much more for a lower level skill, now can we?

I agree on Holy Freeze; it really doesn't need improvement. My fully geared Frost Zealot did very well in Hell with a level-40 aura (and a 1-pt Fanaticism that reached lvl 20 as attack to take care of CIs). A HF Zealot is easier to play than a pure Zealot because every monster slows down - I've even done ubers with him (though I switched off the HF aura in Tristran not to wake up all ubers at once).

I don't agree on Holy Fire. Lower-level skills can have a steeper increase of damage and/or a synergy that can only be invested in at higher levels. That way it can do low damage throughout Normal and still do enough damage in later difficulty levels. I think any skill that can only be used at lower levels is a waste (and there are lots of those in D2).



 
Re: Skills/trees that need improvements

I'm disappointed in most suggestions here. Is "make this skill do more damage" the only thing people can think of? I admit I had a suggestion like that with blood golem, but thats about it.


Honestly guys, try to be a little more inventive than this :/
 
Re: Skills/trees that need improvements

I'm disappointed in most suggestions here. Is "make this skill do more damage" the only thing people can think of? I admit I had a suggestion like that with blood golem, but thats about it.


Honestly guys, try to be a little more inventive than this :/

nerf all cold and fire trees from sorc by 30% leave lighting as it is, and remove all immune in hell mode.


 
Re: Skills/trees that need improvements

...forget I ever said a word. Please carry on ¬¬
 
Re: Skills/trees that need improvements

I'm disappointed in most suggestions here. Is "make this skill do more damage" the only thing people can think of? I admit I had a suggestion like that with blood golem, but thats about it.


Honestly guys, try to be a little more inventive than this :/

Well, my 'dream' is to change immolation arrow so that it is still useful even with the cooldown. The idea would be to offer the flames of the immolation arrow a chance to cause a hit recovery animation and increase the range of the flames.
This way, it gain properties similar to freezing arrow (keeping monsters away) so that it can be used as good cold immune solutions that will keep monsters away just like freezing arrow - no need to be in more danger while fighting those cold immune monsters - or as a one point wonder for physical bowazon similar to freezing arrow now but working on other, dangerous monsters (like those frenzytaurs).

Perhaps even include a knockback effect.



 
Re: Skills/trees that need improvements

I'm disappointed in most suggestions here. Is "make this skill do more damage" the only thing people can think of? I admit I had a suggestion like that with blood golem, but thats about it.


Honestly guys, try to be a little more inventive than this :/

That's because we're trying to stay realistic. Blizzard isn't going to make drastic changes to the game, like changing the way skills work. So we're looking for stuff that they can do by changing some numbers in the code, without the need to change animation, menus, etc.



 
Re: Skills/trees that need improvements

I'm disappointed in most suggestions here. Is "make this skill do more damage" the only thing people can think of? I admit I had a suggestion like that with blood golem, but thats about it.


Honestly guys, try to be a little more inventive than this :/

Some 'more damage' comments make sense, 'cause often that's the only thing wrong with some skills. Please read my previous post; there are some idea's to make underused skills more powerful. And yes, all of them are for the better, but I stated at the start of my post I didn't have time to include nerfs. :thumbup:



 
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