Rod Fergusson on Twitter about personal loot
- Thread starter BullHorn
- Start date
- Feb 23, 2006
- 3,146
- 852
- 113
Why is individualized loot a bad thing? I'm really trying to understand the reasoning for not wanting improved loot in multiplayer?This is bad news, I really hope they don't ruin the game.
1. Is it randomized from what drops and drop rates are individualized? Then it impacts no one but douchebags or TK sorceress. Gives everyone an equal chance to loot.
2. Is it a new drop rate that each person gets there own and people are going to be upset because there is more stuff in the economy to trade? Has anyone who played on cattle.net ever had a healthy non-duped economy? I don't believe so. This benefits everyone and for friends/family that co-op together actually makes a lot of sense as they are rewarded for playing together.
3. People want the game left the same, but it isn't. It doesn't look or feel the same in my time in beta, nor will it.
- Aug 30, 2021
- 41
- 39
- 18
There's so many things that this could ruin, I don't even know where to start.
As an example let's do some quick maths. Baal drops 6 items on death. 3-4 of these items are rare+ and worth picking up. With 8 players in the game, that's 0.5 items per kill per player, or 1 item for every 2 Baal kills. That's a fair way to have personal loot without modifying drop rates. That's also terrible, anyone who experiences this will demand increased drop rates, the whole personal loot won't change a god damn thing. You know this tells me? People who are asking for personal loot haven't even bothered doing this simple calculation to realize that it's a terrible idea. I can already see people leeching AFK baalruns, because why fight if you know you have guaranteed items at the end of the run?
Regardless of how they choose to implement this feature, it's impact on the game will ripple like a wave. It's effect on botting is hard to predict but it might make it significantly more prevalent.
What happens if they make 8-player group MF actually more viable than other methods? Well, my first expectation is that the current MF or rune-finding strategies will immediately become suboptimal compared to group play. Just like Diablo 3, you HAVE to play in an optimized 4 player group or else your Paragon acquisition speed is greatly diminished and I'm talking probably 1000% slower. So it stands to reason that you will have to either make optimal 8 player groups like mini-WoW raids when farming, or suffer.
There's also the psychological side of things. Sometimes you're in a game where you feel you can be relaxed and people might even share loot because their mules are full. You might even make a friend in the process. Other times you have to sit on the edge of your seat in order to catch an item. You might see a cool item drop and start a conversation with a player, maybe end up trading. Personal loot sterilizes the game from any such interactions. The game becomes a bunch of single-players in their own instance-bubbles playing on the same screen.
I saw this post on the D2R forum and it really resonated with me:
I really hope they don't touch loot.
-EDIT:
It's ok, his inboxed got exploded...
As an example let's do some quick maths. Baal drops 6 items on death. 3-4 of these items are rare+ and worth picking up. With 8 players in the game, that's 0.5 items per kill per player, or 1 item for every 2 Baal kills. That's a fair way to have personal loot without modifying drop rates. That's also terrible, anyone who experiences this will demand increased drop rates, the whole personal loot won't change a god damn thing. You know this tells me? People who are asking for personal loot haven't even bothered doing this simple calculation to realize that it's a terrible idea. I can already see people leeching AFK baalruns, because why fight if you know you have guaranteed items at the end of the run?
Regardless of how they choose to implement this feature, it's impact on the game will ripple like a wave. It's effect on botting is hard to predict but it might make it significantly more prevalent.
What happens if they make 8-player group MF actually more viable than other methods? Well, my first expectation is that the current MF or rune-finding strategies will immediately become suboptimal compared to group play. Just like Diablo 3, you HAVE to play in an optimized 4 player group or else your Paragon acquisition speed is greatly diminished and I'm talking probably 1000% slower. So it stands to reason that you will have to either make optimal 8 player groups like mini-WoW raids when farming, or suffer.
There's also the psychological side of things. Sometimes you're in a game where you feel you can be relaxed and people might even share loot because their mules are full. You might even make a friend in the process. Other times you have to sit on the edge of your seat in order to catch an item. You might see a cool item drop and start a conversation with a player, maybe end up trading. Personal loot sterilizes the game from any such interactions. The game becomes a bunch of single-players in their own instance-bubbles playing on the same screen.
I saw this post on the D2R forum and it really resonated with me:
I really hope they don't touch loot.
-EDIT:
It's ok, his inboxed got exploded...
Last edited:
Glurin
Active member
- Jan 6, 2021
- 583
- 243
- 43
I'm not disagreeing with you, but do keep in mind that there is a reason personalized loot and need before greed features became a thing in the first place. It's because people got sick of situations like greedy butt-holes using mods to loot everything good almost before it even appears on the screen.
- Feb 23, 2006
- 3,146
- 852
- 113
I'm just going to say you and I play games for totally different reasons and have different expectations what makes something enjoyable.
- Aug 30, 2021
- 41
- 39
- 18
I'm just going to say I've played almost every ARPG out there and those that have personal loot are worse for it.
There's many arguably unenjoyable things in Diablo 2, to list a few:
Stamina bar
Potion belt and potion management
Limited respecs (or no respecs in previous versions)
Limited stash
Inventories full of charms
Lack of loot filter
Players invading and going Hostile to PK you
I can go on and on
Some or even most of these things are what make Diablo 2 what it is. You can remove some of them to maybe improve the game, but where do you really draw the line?
There's many arguably unenjoyable things in Diablo 2, to list a few:
Stamina bar
Potion belt and potion management
Limited respecs (or no respecs in previous versions)
Limited stash
Inventories full of charms
Lack of loot filter
Players invading and going Hostile to PK you
I can go on and on
Some or even most of these things are what make Diablo 2 what it is. You can remove some of them to maybe improve the game, but where do you really draw the line?
- Feb 23, 2006
- 3,146
- 852
- 113
But how does personalized loot impact any of that? I'm really trying to understand a real counter argument that makes sense.
All I see is: More loot in the game = bad? But why?
If people are expecting a bot community, the economy is already bad. So basically the only ones that benefit directly from a normal gameplay are the bots that sell items as a normal player won't find items at the speed bots can.
Is the purpose of a Baal run in a group the XP or the items? When I played on battle.net years ago it was the XP, same as when cows were done. If you got a drop you were lucky, why not give players an added reward.
Just so you know, none of this impacts me. All my play time will be with single player unless a group of my friends actually pick it up (and I doubt that since most want New World).
All I see is: More loot in the game = bad? But why?
If people are expecting a bot community, the economy is already bad. So basically the only ones that benefit directly from a normal gameplay are the bots that sell items as a normal player won't find items at the speed bots can.
Is the purpose of a Baal run in a group the XP or the items? When I played on battle.net years ago it was the XP, same as when cows were done. If you got a drop you were lucky, why not give players an added reward.
Just so you know, none of this impacts me. All my play time will be with single player unless a group of my friends actually pick it up (and I doubt that since most want New World).
- Aug 30, 2021
- 41
- 39
- 18
Personal loot doesn't mean more loot, that's your projection or misunderstanding of what personal loot means.
If they made personal loot, it would have to be fair, and they would have to figure out a way to divide loot between players based on current drop rates; ie: as I mentioned previously, if Baal normally drops 4 items per kill, then under new personal loot rules, each player in a group of 8 would get 1 item per 2 Baal kills. Unless of course they also plan to change/increase drop rates, which would be even worse than just having personal loot.
And obviously nobody farms Baal for items. But that doesn't stop new players from seeing Baalruns as the most popular endgame public activity, an activity where they rarely get to find items.
However, none of that was never my point and isn't the point of most people who oppose personal loot. The way loot is dropping now affects players on multiple levels, from their psychology to the playstyle and their choice of activities. It just can't be changed without completely throwing everything out of equilibrium.
If they made personal loot, it would have to be fair, and they would have to figure out a way to divide loot between players based on current drop rates; ie: as I mentioned previously, if Baal normally drops 4 items per kill, then under new personal loot rules, each player in a group of 8 would get 1 item per 2 Baal kills. Unless of course they also plan to change/increase drop rates, which would be even worse than just having personal loot.
And obviously nobody farms Baal for items. But that doesn't stop new players from seeing Baalruns as the most popular endgame public activity, an activity where they rarely get to find items.
However, none of that was never my point and isn't the point of most people who oppose personal loot. The way loot is dropping now affects players on multiple levels, from their psychology to the playstyle and their choice of activities. It just can't be changed without completely throwing everything out of equilibrium.
- Feb 23, 2006
- 3,146
- 852
- 113
The first thing is being were assuming that individualized = how it drops on D3 to where I get a white item and you got the unique drop when we are co-oping on a console. Unless there was something that specifically stated that is how they were going about it, people need to not make assumptions.
I would image (My assumption) it would be we all get an individualized drops, so how does each of us getting 6 items not equal more loot?
There isn't any equilibrium set yet. That is the thing. We are talking about an unreleased game. Let us use the example of D3 before ROS and after with new drops rates. Which improved the game for the majority of players? What your specifically referring to in all your post is min-maxing. I spend X amount of time I better be at X. I must optimize my entire playstyle. You are talking about less than 10% of the total player base will play like that. The majority of players will play for a couple weeks, do a playthrough or two and call it a day.
If anyones is mentally affected by what loot drops in a game, I would highly suggest they go see a qualified professional as well as anyone else. I am a licensed mental health counselor and can tell you if you are taking a game that personal, you need some coping strategies and insights into why it is impacting you. (You is not intended to be you specifically)
I would image (My assumption) it would be we all get an individualized drops, so how does each of us getting 6 items not equal more loot?
There isn't any equilibrium set yet. That is the thing. We are talking about an unreleased game. Let us use the example of D3 before ROS and after with new drops rates. Which improved the game for the majority of players? What your specifically referring to in all your post is min-maxing. I spend X amount of time I better be at X. I must optimize my entire playstyle. You are talking about less than 10% of the total player base will play like that. The majority of players will play for a couple weeks, do a playthrough or two and call it a day.
If anyones is mentally affected by what loot drops in a game, I would highly suggest they go see a qualified professional as well as anyone else. I am a licensed mental health counselor and can tell you if you are taking a game that personal, you need some coping strategies and insights into why it is impacting you. (You is not intended to be you specifically)
- Aug 30, 2021
- 41
- 39
- 18
He also said it might still happen but not at launch.
His tweet
Either way it's mostly PR speak, it's impossible to know what they will or won't do. They said we will have modding and then they take it away as well as TCP/IP... So they will do whatever they decide regardless of what they say on Twitter.
His tweet
Either way it's mostly PR speak, it's impossible to know what they will or won't do. They said we will have modding and then they take it away as well as TCP/IP... So they will do whatever they decide regardless of what they say on Twitter.
- Oct 3, 2005
- 7,678
- 27
- 48
Just make drops go to the ones doing damage, so no town-leechers.
Also, it baffles me that so many ppl are against any changes to d2. If one wants no change, play LoD. Its still a great game.
D2LOD is still a great game. But the graphics are one of the oldest and worst parts. Even when released the graphics were so not cutting edge back then.
I agree 100% on no Ploot. You want Ploot go play D3 and others games like it. FFA Loot is part of what makes D2/LOD special, perfect no, but special. It forces teamwork and playing with others you know and trust when MF'ing or looking for loot. If all you want is XP, random 8 player games are great for that.
So you want D2LOD and D2R ploot, great play single player and or a password protected online game. Hopefully the /players n command works for single player and online as well. Time will tell.
I still have not pre bought, D3 taught me that lesson, never again. Hopefully the D2R release and first couple of patches stay true to D2/D2LOD and not D3.
I agree 100% on no Ploot. You want Ploot go play D3 and others games like it. FFA Loot is part of what makes D2/LOD special, perfect no, but special. It forces teamwork and playing with others you know and trust when MF'ing or looking for loot. If all you want is XP, random 8 player games are great for that.
So you want D2LOD and D2R ploot, great play single player and or a password protected online game. Hopefully the /players n command works for single player and online as well. Time will tell.
I still have not pre bought, D3 taught me that lesson, never again. Hopefully the D2R release and first couple of patches stay true to D2/D2LOD and not D3.
Glurin
Active member
- Jan 6, 2021
- 583
- 243
- 43
It's because 99% of the time when these studios go and make changes to the classics, they **** it up. Badly.
This is particularly true if the word is "remake" instead of "remaster".
Thank you for your comment, i agree a 100% and the quote you posted is also Sublime.There's so many things that this could ruin, I don't even know where to start.
As an example let's do some quick maths. Baal drops 6 items on death. 3-4 of these items are rare+ and worth picking up. With 8 players in the game, that's 0.5 items per kill per player, or 1 item for every 2 Baal kills. That's a fair way to have personal loot without modifying drop rates. That's also terrible, anyone who experiences this will demand increased drop rates, the whole personal loot won't change a god damn thing. You know this tells me? People who are asking for personal loot haven't even bothered doing this simple calculation to realize that it's a terrible idea. I can already see people leeching AFK baalruns, because why fight if you know you have guaranteed items at the end of the run?
Regardless of how they choose to implement this feature, it's impact on the game will ripple like a wave. It's effect on botting is hard to predict but it might make it significantly more prevalent.
What happens if they make 8-player group MF actually more viable than other methods? Well, my first expectation is that the current MF or rune-finding strategies will immediately become suboptimal compared to group play. Just like Diablo 3, you HAVE to play in an optimized 4 player group or else your Paragon acquisition speed is greatly diminished and I'm talking probably 1000% slower. So it stands to reason that you will have to either make optimal 8 player groups like mini-WoW raids when farming, or suffer.
There's also the psychological side of things. Sometimes you're in a game where you feel you can be relaxed and people might even share loot because their mules are full. You might even make a friend in the process. Other times you have to sit on the edge of your seat in order to catch an item. You might see a cool item drop and start a conversation with a player, maybe end up trading. Personal loot sterilizes the game from any such interactions. The game becomes a bunch of single-players in their own instance-bubbles playing on the same screen.
I saw this post on the D2R forum and it really resonated with me:
I really hope they don't touch loot.
-EDIT:
It's ok, his inboxed got exploded...
I really felt it when you said its many solo players sharing a same screen, or game you said, amazong wording!
Google