PvM questions for Bowsin

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Wingspan

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PvM questions for Bowsin

Hey guys, I started a HCL Bowsin on USEast, "AmazonAtHeart," and it's a lot of fun. I am aiming for:

20 SM
20 MB
20 Venom
20 Dtalon
10 BoS
?? Maybe 5 Blade shield if I ever got that far

Anyway, I was wondering about what bows would work best. I found kuko very effective at lvl 45, and I know in the long run I will probably need some kind of exploding bolts to effectively deal with crowds. I use an Act1 merc who has a shaeled Kuko and Rattlecage, which works very well. I have made other chars with similar setups.

Right now I am using a Witchwild String with a +15 max/13 psn res and a 10 min/7 max jewel, but now I think that was a mistake. Perhaps I should have gone with Eth + Nef, unless Magic Arrow always hits? It's hard to tell b/c most places I'm playing I have like 90% chance ot hit anyway. I am also wearing Razortail, Sander's gloves, and the rest is rare equip with various mods.

The smot important thing to me is, if I stick with Witchwild, even on weapon switch, what should I put in the sockets? I have a Hel so I can always unsocket. Right now I dont' have the runes to upgrade but I am looking forward to that. Depending on the gear though, I might just give my merc the with and give myslf the kuko, since it's mroe important ot aim the kuko correctly than the witchwild.

I would love a widowmaker but honestly Im very poor and dont have the time to mf/trade for that. Any advice is greatly appreciated.
 
magic arrows dont always hit, they jsut deliver some magic dmg. as for the bows its probably a matter of preferance but consider the pro's + con's of each:
kuko: exploding arrows, area dmg, 50% pierce (83% with razortail) meaning more dmg/leech.
Witch wild: magic arrows (magic dmg), 2 open sockets, all res, deadly strike on lvl and amp thus giving you the chance to do 4x your listed phys dmg.

the phys dmg on the two is about the same if you dont include the mods. If you go witch wild you could shael shael it to get to the final breakpoints alot easier.
well this hasnt been much hlep sorry lol personally i'd test both out alittle more and find your preference then upgrade it.
 
Magic Arrow does require AR to hit. Witchwild isn't a great bow for this build IMO...it could be useful if upgraded, but if you can't get a Widowmaker, I don't think you could get an upgraded WWS either.

As for bow choice, consider upgrading to a Demon Machine(not really for the Explosive Arrow, as it doesn't transfer Venom and does pretty poor damage in itself, but for the Pierce and speed) or Gut Siphon. With either crossbow, you only need 18% IAS on equipment to reach the 11 frame cap(a Shael socket will do it), which is just 1 frame short of being able to keep a monster continually poisoned.

Since 18% IAS is all you need in terms of speed, you can max Fade instead. Do be careful about the max DTalon, though...you may find yourself using it a lot more often than bows, which would defeat the purpose of this build...
 
Naliworld said:
Magic Arrow does require AR to hit. Witchwild isn't a great bow for this build IMO...it could be useful if upgraded, but if you can't get a Widowmaker, I don't think you could get an upgraded WWS either.

As for bow choice, consider upgrading to a Demon Machine(not really for the Explosive Arrow, as it doesn't transfer Venom and does pretty poor damage in itself, but for the Pierce and speed) or Gut Siphon. With either crossbow, you only need 18% IAS on equipment to reach the 11 frame cap(a Shael socket will do it), which is just 1 frame short of being able to keep a monster continually poisoned.

Since 18% IAS is all you need in terms of speed, you can max Fade instead. Do be careful about the max DTalon, though...you may find yourself using it a lot more often than bows, which would defeat the purpose of this build...
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Nali,

Thanks for your reply I always respect your opinion.

I have historically not considered it hard to get Um or Pul runes for the upgrade, and have upgraded many items before to elite. However, I just figured in the new ladder season a Widowmaker would be pretty dman hard to get since it seems like everyone and their mother who isn't a Zon is hankering for one. Bowadins, Bowsins, Ranger Druids, Necros, prolly even some sorcs all pick this as the bow of choice. Plus being ladder only means it will prolly retain value when it has been switched over to norm play, whenever that happens. If you really don't think it's that hard to get, I'lkl aim for it.

However, I am concerned that Widowmaker or any other bow without pierce (excluding Razortail) will make handling crowds a nightmare. Right now I am very jealous of my merc's kuko, but pretty much need the rez and like the convenience of not needing arrows.

I am using the German wpn speed calc, which I know many people don't trust but it seems ot be right for bows, and with lvl 10 BoS I only need 20% IAS for 9 frame arrow shot. Since I already have lvl 10 BoS, it seems like going for a Demon Machine would be pointless, although I really do like it as a wpn. I wouldn't upgrade it tho cuz then I'd need so much more STR. I would have mroe than enough DEX to cover upgraded kuko or WWS.

I can't switchover to fade now, although that seems like a very viable idea. I never have a problem staying alive in HC, and haven't ahd any problems yet with this Bowsin. Plus I alreayd have a kuko and WWS, BoS and all this other equip.

I am not concerned about becoming dependent on DTalon, cuz even though it outdamages my bow sometimes it is just not safe to run up to monsters and start kicking when I can snipe them across the screen. I do use DT for single targets or to push back stragglers, etc, and it's very good at doing these things.

I am still wondering about WWS sockets. I was thinking perhas double ETH would be good since I have no AR bonuses, and with BoS + 20% gloves I am at 9 frame attack anyway. However, perhaps Eth Nef is better?

Finally, I am thinking of maxxing DFlight over Mind Blast... is this a bad idea? I figrue with mind blast and + skills it will be fine, but it would be ncie to substantially dmg or kill targets when DFing to them so I don't have a baddie in my face for as long.
 
if you've already got the 20ias from your gear then eth eth would be a very good cheap way to help your hit ratio, i wouldnt put a nef into your bow unless you are overrun with monsters often and find that you have to keep giving alot of ground.
monsters getting close shouldn't be too much of a problem though as CoS should be cast before they see you.
as for mindblast or kick i suppsoe its a matter of preference but i've always found one in mb is usually enough.

l8rs :howdy:

raph
 
I agree with raphiel, double Eth is probably the way to go(CoS usually keeps monsters still for you to shoot at anyway). Another bow option you may want to consider is Eaglehorn(ITD and huge AR pretty much solve your AR problems). It may be worth a lot now, but its value should drop pretty fast, being a unique...
 
Naliworld said:
I agree with raphiel, double Eth is probably the way to go(CoS usually keeps monsters still for you to shoot at anyway). Another bow option you may want to consider is Eaglehorn(ITD and huge AR pretty much solve your AR problems). It may be worth a lot now, but its value should drop pretty fast, being a unique...
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Thanks for the advice. I actually switched over to a Kuko (which I will Nef) and will trade my WWS to a friend.

I also got Lava gouts, which, combined with Kuko and lvl 13 BoS is at 9 frames and DESTROYS EVERYTHING. I am at lvl 62 in NM and totally plow through everything in any act. I have maxed SM and Venom and will soon max DTalon, then DTail. After that I might just throw extra points into BoS or get Blade Shield, asuming I lvie that long.

I realize it will be much harder in hell, mostly because of higher reses and fire immunes. Not sure what my game plan will be but I won't worry about that till lvl 75 or so.

Also, why are unique values dropping? People want runewords or crafts or something?
 
Towards the mid-end of Ladder 1, uniques just weren't worth a lot, since it's a lot easier to find them compared to high runes...eventually, too many uniques were floating around, and the price dropped of most uniques dropped to almost nothing at the end of the Ladder. I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing were to happen with Ladder 2.
 
Naliworld said:
Towards the mid-end of Ladder 1, uniques just weren't worth a lot, since it's a lot easier to find them compared to high runes...eventually, too many uniques were floating around, and the price dropped of most uniques dropped to almost nothing at the end of the Ladder. I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing were to happen with Ladder 2.
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Yeah, true, especially since runes get used up in formulas all the time whereas unique items don't, so they don't as readiy disappear, neh?

Well, that's good for me. Too bad I'm leaving the country in a month so I won't have too much time to reap the benefits.
 
What do you guys think of Hellrack? I jsut got one for an Io rune (maybe I got ripped off, but whatever), and it would take 55 additional IAS to make 11 frames with my lvl 13 BoS. Since it has 20 on it and I got 20 form my glvoes, I only need 15% IAS for 11 frames. Would this be a good weapon, the damage is insane. I was considering double Hel-ing it, sinc eI don't want to get 163 STR, I only have like 80 base and 105 with items now. 2x Hel would make it like 95 req STR. 1x Hel would make it like 130, which is still a tad high.

The dmg on this thing is like... insane, it's about 200 avg phys, then 600 avg elemental, add 600 venom dmg, and multiply phys dmg by 1.75 for dex, it's like... 1800 dmg per shot, with 33% pierce from razortail. Not bad. Now all I have to do is survive till lvl 76.

I have one hel rune, does anyone suggest I actually get 30 more STR, or try to find equip for it, or just double Hel it?
 
lextalionis said:
I wouldn't nef your bow, since you can use knockback from Safety Gloves if you need knockback.
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Yeah but, I love Lava Gouts so much!

Haha nayway, it's too late, but thanks Lex.

You the man.
 
Hellrack seems like an awesome weapon on paper, but the high elemental damage which makes it so popular is cut a lot due to various monster immunities/resistances. More than half the time(out of the major immunities, Cold, Fire, Lit, Poison, Physical), you're only getting two-thirds the normal elemental damage. Plus, it's bulky and looks "meh" on an Assassin(just IMO :p). Plus, no Pierce, which is a major downside.

2 x Hel is a good idea, as long as you watch every point you spend in STR. That's 204 life saved.
 
Naliworld said:
Hellrack seems like an awesome weapon on paper, but the high elemental damage which makes it so popular is cut a lot due to various monster immunities/resistances. More than half the time(out of the major immunities, Cold, Fire, Lit, Poison, Physical), you're only getting two-thirds the normal elemental damage. Plus, it's bulky and looks "meh" on an Assassin(just IMO :p). Plus, no Pierce, which is a major downside.

2 x Hel is a good idea, as long as you watch every point you spend in STR. That's 204 life saved.
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter anymore... last night my HCL Bowsin was slain by a TPPK lamer, APA_IceNiglet, as if t weren't bad enough this guys uses depolrable pk methods, he's also a frickin racist jerk.

Standard "fire a bunch of ice blasts at target, tp, hostile, target dies" By the time I realized what he was doign i was dead, died too fast to even use my 12 full rejuvs.

Oh well, this Asn was a ton of fun, and dare I say it, very effective! I found kuko still ripping things up into act 1 Hell, despite all the fire immunes, probably thanks to Venom, which helped so much. Oh yeah, and maxing Dragon Flight WAS a good idea.

So I just wanna take the time out to say thanks to anyone who played with me on USEast while "AmazonAtHeart" still lived!
 
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