PvM Gunslinger - Physical Bow/Lightning Java Hybrid

Re: PvM Gunslinger - Physical Bow/Lightning Java Hybrid

well ur build said javelin would be more useful for the starting so i'm focusing javelin earlier. i'm gonna use faith as bow...what charms should i use?
would fine charms that add +3 max dmg be better or psn charms? and what u mean adding my vit till i like the taste? cause i was thinking more vit = more survival..more dex would make me a better fighter because of more dmg but less vit >< whats ur stats like?
 
Re: PvM Gunslinger - Physical Bow/Lightning Java Hybrid

biasedlife said:
well ur build said javelin would be more useful for the starting so i'm focusing javelin earlier. i'm gonna use faith as bow...what charms should i use?
would fine charms that add +3 max dmg be better or psn charms? and what u mean adding my vit till i like the taste? cause i was thinking more vit = more survival..more dex would make me a better fighter because of more dmg but less vit >< whats ur stats like?
Click to expand...
Charms can be either javaskillers, passive skillers or maxers.

It's hard to say which is better between passive skillers and +max charms, passive skillers will increase your critical strike, penetrate and pierce for offense, and d/a/e + valkyrie for defense. Java skillers is another choice if you're reaching the levels you wish to reach in the passive tree.

I personally go for level 9 passives (because lvl 9 piecre + razortail = 100% pierce), then I fill out my GC space with java skillers and fill the gaps with life/res (until I have maxed resistance) and max/life charms. I use both an anni and a torch, reason for the later beaing that the torch saves so many points in all trees, even though the hellfire from it does lagg out games.


Don't bother with poison charms, my take on this build is that you don't like waiting for things to die, our damage should kill before the poison has been of much use.

I meant adding point into vitality until you have "enough" life, how much "enough" life is will depend on your personal preferance (your "taste"). Myself I find that 600 life is enough in most cases, and that 800 feels rather safe.

My own current zon is a high end build and surely not realistic to build after as a first character after the ladder reset. I have almost all dex, totally 5 points to strenght and rest in dex iirc. Further details about her can be found in the amazon showoff thread, which you will be linked to if you click on the image in my signature.



 
Re: PvM Gunslinger - Physical Bow/Lightning Java Hybrid

you want have a total of +8 to the passive skill - coming from ani, torch, passive and mana skillers and perhaps amulet/armour/gloves. This way you will have max pierce with razortails.

So you only put one point in pierce and you want to add passive skillers untill you see that pierce is that lvl 9. Then you can add other charms as you see fit.

P.S. would just add extra hard points in pierce, though if Kijya disagrees...
 
Re: PvM Gunslinger - Physical Bow/Lightning Java Hybrid

Na I don't really disagree, hard points might be just as good or even better in many cases.

I've not done too much math on all the charm vs charm cases, too many variables in it all ...

I'm quite glad the one I'm using currently on my own zon reaches lvl 9 passives just from torch+anni+items, so I didn't have to consider passives at all ...
 
Re: PvM Gunslinger - Physical Bow/Lightning Java Hybrid

I couldn't find anything on your stat spread in there. Its possible I missed it, but I searched 'vitality' and didn't find anything, and I know you mentioned that most of your points are sunk in dex.

My question arises because I'm curious to how durable your Zon is. I really prefer to play hardcore, so I'm uneasy about sinking so many points into dex. Should I be? I don't have much Zon experience, but I'm confident I can play your build. However, before I do so, I want to make sure I'm getting the stats right.

Thanks!

Postscript: Fantastic guide by the way.


Edit: You misspelled 'Pride' by the way (as Pirde), under desert mercenaries 3.4.2.


Edit 2: You mentioned in an above post about 'enough' life. However, because of build variances, what would you recommend as 'enough' for a build like this in hardcore? Would you stick to the 600-800 figure (keeping in mind that I'll be using low-end gear) Thanks again! Looking forward to trying out this Zon.
 
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Re: PvM Gunslinger - Physical Bow/Lightning Java Hybrid

TheGoldenArches said:
I couldn't find anything on your stat spread in there. Its possible I missed it, but I searched 'vitality' and didn't find anything, and I know you mentioned that most of your points are sunk in dex.
Click to expand...
Yeah, no idea how I missed having one :cloud9:

My question arises because I'm curious to how durable your Zon is. I really prefer to play hardcore, so I'm uneasy about sinking so many points into dex. Should I be? I don't have much Zon experience, but I'm confident I can play your build. However, before I do so, I want to make sure I'm getting the stats right.

Edit 2: You mentioned in an above post about 'enough' life. However, because of build variances, what would you recommend as 'enough' for a build like this in hardcore? Would you stick to the 600-800 figure (keeping in mind that I'll be using low-end gear) Thanks again! Looking forward to trying out this Zon.
Click to expand...
Firstly I'd get as much life on her as you would do on a normal bowzon for hc, they're pretty similar in surviveability. The difference is that this one preferable should be able to take a hit or two while using CS in melee, so maybe increase that number somewhat just to be safe.

When thinking along those terms I end up at 600-800 in softcore, in hardcore I'd probably go for close to 1k-1.2k life just to be on the safe side. But 700ish should still be enough to keep you alive if you play her carefully in the areas where care is needed.

I myself reccomend getting max resists unless you're staying clear of areas with the dangerous elemental attacksers (souls above all).


Suggestion:

[Total life] = 50 + [ 2 * clvl ] + [ 3 * X ] + [charms]

Input your desired total life (I'd assume around 1100), your probabal final character level, and the life from charms you can count on. Then just solve the equation to see how high virtality = X you should get.

I'm however not a hardcore player myself, so cannot state for sure that this will be 100% accurate.

Thanks!

Postscript: Fantastic guide by the way.


Edit: You misspelled 'Pride' by the way (as Pirde), under desert mercenaries 3.4.2.
Click to expand...
Thanks for flowers and pointing the error out, will fix it when I get to it :thumbup:



 
Re: PvM Gunslinger - Physical Bow/Lightning Java Hybrid

Hi,

Thanks for the great guide. I like to play primarily as a Javazons, but not sure what to do for the hybrid. In your opinion, what are the Benefits/drawbacks of using multi/strafe vs. FA + Synergy to handle LI for a poor zon (first ladder char). I play HC, btw.

multi/strafe seems like it will take less pts to be effective with a good bow, but needs different gear than javazon does, whereas both LF/CS/FA all greatly benefit from + skills. The extra skill points from going multi/strafe would probably go to pierce/valk.

I don't really know enough to make the decision between the two and what would work best for how I play.

Thanks.

HornedToad
 
Re: PvM Gunslinger - Physical Bow/Lightning Java Hybrid

Hi,

Thanks for the great guide. I like to play primarily as a Javazons, but not sure what to do for the hybrid. In your opinion, what are the Benefits/drawbacks of using multi/strafe vs. FA + Synergy to handle LI for a poor zon (first ladder char). I play HC, btw.
Click to expand...
Hi

Benefits of using strafe/multi instead of FA is that: Firstly multi has wider AoE letting you hit more monsters at once, and strafe attacks much faster so single spread out enemies can be attacked faster. Secondly you're doing physical damage, less common as an immunity then cold and leeching back life and mana will be simple whereas FA is more mana hungry. Thirdly strafe/multi requires less skillpoints, allowing you to be closer to the power of a pure javazon in your javelin skills. Fourthly, in a party a physical build will most likely easier gain bonuses to their damage though necro curses and paladin auras, hammerdins are common ... Fifthly, on a side note, 1 point FA still freezes enemies, though for less time and you'll still have to kill them with the physical component.

Drawbacks on the other hand: Firstly you do need a fairly good bow, unlike FA that gets its damage from skills. Secondly, attack rating is more importaint to the physical hybrid, and getting it is slightly harder since, unlike FA, strafe/muli doesn't give any ar bonuses. Thirdly, monsters obviously don't freeze from your main attacks, knockback still works well with strafe though. Forthly, the FA build can pump vitality to make a high life build, whereas a physical hybrid wish to pump dex more to get higher physical damage.

In short, FA hybrids should be safer with more life and the freezing of enemies, but the strafe/muli hybrid should be more offensively powerful, with more AoE in the bow tree, and more damage in the javelin tree, assuming you get a high end bow.


multi/strafe seems like it will take less pts to be effective with a good bow, but needs different gear than javazon does, whereas both LF/CS/FA all greatly benefit from + skills.
Click to expand...
Correct, LF/CS/FA might be pulling your gear choices a bit more in the same direction, although you'll still want to have enough ias of course.

The extra skill points from going multi/strafe would probably go to pierce/valk.
Click to expand...
Depends on how high end your build will be, but yes, some more points will most likely be needed there unless you're absolutely packed with high end stuff. Should still leave a couple points more for the lightning skills with somewhat decent equipment.

The higher damage you do the less of a valk you need, since enemies die faster she needs to tank less. My own hybrid is probably a bad example, since it's packed with high end stuff, but just to tell that it's possible: I reach level 9 passives in bowmode with just one point in each. I have 4 maxed lightning skills :wink:


I don't really know enough to make the decision between the two and what would work best for how I play.

Thanks.

HornedToad
Click to expand...
I'm not sure how you play, but physical/lightning hybrids should be played more like a regular bowzon when in bowmode, and as a fairly fragile (but still powerfull) javazon in javamode.

Hope it helps somewhat.

Cheers
Kijya
 
Re: PvM Gunslinger - Physical Bow/Lightning Java Hybrid

I am trying this hybrid atm. I play hardcore exclusively. Would multishot be a better (safer) option for hardcore? Strafe might leave you standing around for a few seconds and it might get you in a dangerous situation.
 
Re: PvM Gunslinger - Physical Bow/Lightning Java Hybrid

Evoknox said:
I am trying this hybrid atm. I play hardcore exclusively. Would multishot be a better (safer) option for hardcore? Strafe might leave you standing around for a few seconds and it might get you in a dangerous situation.
Click to expand...
Correct, multishot is somewhat safer in that respect, since it doesn't lock you in place, and d/a/e can't cause a no leech situation for as long.

Not to say strafe isn't viable in hardcore, but multi is doubtlessly the safer of the two when comparing.



 
Re: PvM Gunslinger - Physical Bow/Lightning Java Hybrid

Hey Kijya,

Thanks alot for the response. That was alot of help. The point about using multi/strafe for leech was especially key since I currently have huge mana issues. Hopefully that'll go down at higher levels. I think I'll probably go for the physical route and try to just find a good bow to use.

Thanks again.
 
Re: PvM Gunslinger - Physical Bow/Lightning Java Hybrid

Holy crap, this is one of the most well written guides I've read for any game.

Kudos. I'm currently doing a Charged Strike/Plague Javelin combo at the moment, but was thinking about starting a Frozen Arrow/Strafe/Plague Jav build later. I'm sure this guide will come in handy. :yes:
 
Re: PvM Gunslinger - Physical Bow/Lightning Java Hybrid

@Evoknox: Sure thing, guess I might as well post every detail. Gear is a large part of how you put your skills after all, and my skill setup is probably rather out of line with the low end item setups. But I guess I shows a bit of the high end side of the build.

Code: 
Miria-SoV
Level 95 Gunslinger

--------------------------------------
items
--------------------------------------
Griffon's Eye (-19/+14,IAS Jewel)
Highlord's Wrath
Titan's Revenge (180ed,8ll,eth)
Windforce (8ml,shael)
"Enigma" (Mage Plate)*
Monarch (15/15 lightning facets)
Crafted Gloves (2java,20IAS,knockback,9dex)
Rare Ring (10fcr,7ll,11str,29fr,18pr)
Razortail (145ed)
Raven Frost (204ar,20dex)
Rare Boots (30frw,10fhr,9dex,36lr,40fr,33pr)

GC (36life,14allres)
GC (32life,13allres)
GC (22life,13allres)
GC (Java skiller,31life)
GC (Java skiller,31life)
GC (Java skiller,29life)
LC (5max,29ar,33life)
sc (5allres)
sc (11cr)
3x sc (20 Life,5allres)
Anni (18stat,19res,9xp)
Torch (20stat,19res)

Merc:
"Faith" (Great Bow,15/1)
"Delerium" (Diadem)
"Chains of Honor" (Eth Great Hauberk)

*Yep a friggin telehybrid, had already built enough of the standard variants 
so though I should try something new. Really loving it actuall, highly reccomended
 to try one with teleport.

When I've socketed my griffon's with a all res/ias jewel, have all max res except
cold that will be in the 40-60ish region (raven absorb helps a bit there instead).

--------------------------------------
skills
--------------------------------------
1 all passives

1 magic arrow
1 cold arrow
7 multi
1 guided arrow
1 strafe

1 jab
2 power strike
1 poison javelin
20 lightning bolt
20 charged strike
1 plague javelin
20 lightning strike
20 charged strike

In bowmode I have +8 all skills, and in javamode +10 all skills.

--------------------------------------
Some damage and misc numbers
--------------------------------------
~3600 multi damage, 10k ar (601 dex)
~3800 strafe damage
~7000 cs damage
~2900 lf damage
15 frame teleport
714 life
@Hornedtoad: Glad I could help :wink:



@Cwicseolfor: Thanks for flowers, glad you found it useful :thumbsup:
 
Re: PvM Gunslinger - Physical Bow/Lightning Java Hybrid

That's some awesome stats you got there Kijya. I suppose I'm going with an a2 defensive merc being item-less. Don't think an archer will be useful without the runewords :P
 
Re: PvM Gunslinger - Physical Bow/Lightning Java Hybrid

Just have a question: Why are monarchs the standard when it comes to making runewords and stuff? Aren't there any other viable shields with lower str reqs?
 
Re: PvM Gunslinger - Physical Bow/Lightning Java Hybrid

HarGow said:
Just have a question: Why are monarchs the standard when it comes to making runewords and stuff? Aren't there any other viable shields with lower str reqs?
Click to expand...
The have the lowest req of any non pala shield that can have 4 sockets. If you're making a 3 socket runeword there's lots of other options though.



 
Re: PvM Gunslinger - Physical Bow/Lightning Java Hybrid

I bet some of you could answer this...

Im working on my hybridzon, and will be using WWS for LIs. If my merc uses Reapers Toll, will the amplify dmg from WWS and the decripify stack?
I know a necro cant stack his curses except for attract, but what if the curses are cast by different "chars" (merc & I)?

Thanks!
 
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