Potential Tournament: Three-Legged Race - Interest/Feedback Thread

Pb_pal

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Hello SPF! After the typical post-RFL lull while everybody rests their carpal-tunnel, it's time to see if you're ready for the next adventure.

With a couple very item-centric tournaments in various stages of progress right now (Orange You Glad and Blessings of the King) I thought it might be fun to gauge interest in another tournament that focused on completely different metrics.

Credit where it's due; it was originally @PhineasB who presented the idea, and together we refined the potential ruleset to a point where we are both happy and excited about it.

The basic premise is to consider it as "laps" of a three-legged race, and kind of center the idea around that. Two characters bound together, gaining skill and power as you complete laps. It borrows from previous TWD torunaments, (though 2 characters instead of three) so if you've played or read along with one of those you have an idea of what's coming. A basic rule outline would be as follows (I will refine based on potential feedback):

0. Typical tournament stuff. (HC/SC until first death, GoMule allowed, 1.10+, blah blah.)

1. Your team will consist of two characters of your choosing. Both characters must ALWAYS stay within 1 act of each other. For example, if one character is in A1, the other character can complete all the way to then end of A2 but cannot proceed further until the first char hits the 2nd act as well.

2. Characters begin as Single-tree with only 1 skill tree each 'unlocked'
2. a) Upon completion of Normal with BOTH characters, you unlock one further skill tree*, which can be picked at your discretion.
2. b) Upon completion of Nightmare with BOTH characters, you unlock one further skill tree*, which can be picked at your discretion.
*One means ONE. Not one for each character, only one. You can select which character and tree gets to unlock upon completion of the difficulty. This also means that if you choose to continue on after one team member dies, you are restricted to however many trees you had unlocked at the time of his/her death.
[note: this leaves you with either a 3/1 and 2/2 split between your characters, which I think will provide some dynamics to people and create some interesting choices for characters and builds]

3. All charges and ctc items are allowed, even from non-selected trees or oskills. However, all Staffmods or skills granted from items from non-selected trees are BANNED. You may still use staffmods from a selected tree. This means if you want to go 'off-tree' in any way, it must be via charges (or ctc). The exception to this rule is auras granted by items, they are allowed regardless of skill-tree choice.

4. Reruns of areas is allowed (think of it like training). You may keep all gold/items from your runs if you please. There will be a designation in the table for if you want to go Single-Pass or not.

5. If one character dies you have the option of continuing solo or bringing a new character up to join him/her. If you choose the latter, the further character may not progress until the new one is caught up.
You are not obligated to pick the same skill trees or even the same class for the new character. The only thing that carries over is the number of trees unlocked, and when they became unlocked on the old character. eg. If the dead character was a sorceress who gained her 2nd tree upon NM completion, the new character must wait until NM is finished to unlock its second tree.

6. Respecs allowed, but once you pick your unlocked trees you cannot change them. You are free to respec within your selected trees.

7. The characters can share equipment between each other, as well as a shared extended stash. (Bonus style points if you skip extended stash, as always)

8. No further item, mercenary, or stat restrictions.


So what do you think? Any major concerns/questions about the ruleset? Is it something you'd be interested in participating in? Feedback is very welcome and encouraged. :)
 
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I'm possibly interested, although my time is limited and I did just start another tournament. Allowing the extended stash is a huge quality of life improvement over the TWD.

Some questions/clarifications on rule 3: Are procs allowed from unselected trees? How about items that grant auras?
 
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I’m interested, but I’ll roll SC until death, which should let me get through to Hell on both at least. My old bones can’t handle the HC stress, as much as I really want my first Guardian after all these years.

if I do decide to go HC, I am thinking Javazon and Wind Druid, and I think I’ll delve into some Greek Mythology for names, like Artemis & Aeolus.

Actually yep, let’s do that. I’m in!
 
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I'm possibly interested, although my time is limited and I did just start another tournament. Allowing the extended stash is a huge quality of life improvement over the TWD.

Some questions/clarifications on rule 3: Are procs allowed from unselected trees? How about items that grant auras?
Good question. I'd say both are allowed, as they are pretty passive (and let's be honest, ctc stuff is never that effective in tournaments anyways). The OP will be updated to reflect that.
 
Time permitting I would consider giving it a shot. I wouldn't start though until after I finish my Orange tourney druid (currently midway through act 3 NM).
 
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Yes! Necro will be tough with skill tree restrictions, but the rerun option should make it doable, and elemental Druid can be single tree. And this will leave only Pally on my HC tourney Sept, which I may start in the Orange tourney to have three HC tourney options as breaks from my 99er Druid.
 
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2. Characters begin as Single-tree with only 1 skill tree each 'unlocked'
2. a) Upon completion of Normal with BOTH characters (or one if the other has died), you unlock one further skill tree*, which can be picked at your discretion.
2. b) Upon completion of Nightmare with BOTH characters (or one if the other has died), you unlock one further skill tree*, which can be picked at your discretion.
*One means ONE. Not one for each character, only one. You can select which character and tree gets to unlock upon completion of the difficulty.
[note: this leaves you with either a 3/1 and 2/2 split between your characters, which I think will provide some dynamics to people and create some interesting choices for characters and builds]

I'm wondering if folks would perhaps want to get rid of the '(or one if the other has died)' clauses from lines 2.a. and 2.b., and/or perhaps drop clause 4. Reruns of areas is allowed.

As I understand the rules as proposed there is no disadvantage to deeding a character ... in fact, the opposite appears to be true. If a character was deeded in Normal and not restarted then the other character would get two skill trees in Nightmare and then three in Hell. Operating with two skill trees in Nightmare would be a bit of a tournament challenge but by Hell you're pretty much just playing any old non-tournament character. If you needed to have BOTH characters complete a difficulty to unlock a skill tree you'd preserve more of the challenge. Or, if rerunning areas was not allowed, you'd be at a bit of a disadvantage if you left a character for dead by losing out on half your future drops ... Just an idea ...

I've nearly gotten my 1.11b Hammerdin across the clvl 99 finish line and am considering what's next ... I won't commit for sure, but this tournament could be it. :)
 
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Single-pass is hard enough for me, so I'd much prefer to have at least one of the options for extra drops available - allowed reruns or nth character after deeds.

I also think it'd be better to require two Guardians to complete the tourney instead of one.
iirc, my teammate couldn't haul me over his shoulder and run for me. :p

Perhaps play till first deed; or force restart of the deeded character?

If i do join, I know one of the class will be a valkyrie-to-strafer and something less gear dependent for the second.

Edit: the rules didn't seem to specify; do you have to play the same class with the same restrictions if you restart a character after deeds?
 
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I'm wondering if folks would perhaps want to get rid of the '(or one if the other has died)' clauses from lines 2.a. and 2.b., and/or perhaps drop clause 4. Reruns of areas is allowed.

As I understand the rules as proposed there is no disadvantage to deeding a character ... in fact, the opposite appears to be true. If a character was deeded in Normal and not restarted then the other character would get two skill trees in Nightmare and then three in Hell. Operating with two skill trees in Nightmare would be a bit of a tournament challenge but by Hell you're pretty much just playing any old non-tournament character. If you needed to have BOTH characters complete a difficulty to unlock a skill tree you'd preserve more of the challenge. Or, if rerunning areas was not allowed, you'd be at a bit of a disadvantage if you left a character for dead by losing out on half your future drops ... Just an idea ...
Interesting points. I think that makes sense to need both characters to complete a difficulty to unlock the skill tree. That way you can choose to persevere with only one, but you would be sacrificing one, or maybe two extra trees to do so. I like it.

I'm going to keep the option of re-running allowed. People can always opt-out (and tend to do that fairly regularly).

Edit: the rules didn't seem to specify; do you have to play the same class with the same restrictions if you restart a character after deeds?
Nope, you can start a completely new character if you want. The only thing that would carry over is any skill-tree unlocks. The new character would take the same trajectory as the old and gain any number of tree unlocks the old character had upon reaching NM/Hell. If you do choose to repeat the same class, you would not need to choose the same skill trees again, just the same number of trees unlocked.

--

Both of these changes/clarifications will be added to the OP shortly.
 
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I'm definitely in for this one! I needed a new tournament to keep me going!

I'm thinking of a necro/assassin combo, and would be going with the single-pass option. I think with two characters progressing this should result in some pretty nice gear options. I'd probably also not restart a new character after deeds and just try to finish the remaining one.

Two questions just to clarify my understanding:
1) With the shared stash, we could complete Act 1 with the first char and then user any gear we found/made with that character to immediately equip on the other, right? So the second character could start the game with some nice stuff available? This would really help certain classes that might struggle early with only the single skill tree, so I like this!

2) Can we equip items that have banned staffmods if we don't use those mods? An example would be a necro wand with +2 Bone Spear and +1 to any curse. If I was only using the P&B tree, could I still use that wand if I did not use the curse? Or would that whole item be off the table?
 
I'm definitely in for this one! I needed a new tournament to keep me going!

I'm thinking of a necro/assassin combo, and would be going with the single-pass option. I think with two characters progressing this should result in some pretty nice gear options. I'd probably also not restart a new character after deeds and just try to finish the remaining one.

Two questions just to clarify my understanding:
1) With the shared stash, we could complete Act 1 with the first char and then user any gear we found/made with that character to immediately equip on the other, right? So the second character could start the game with some nice stuff available? This would really help certain classes that might struggle early with only the single skill tree, so I like this!

2) Can we equip items that have banned staffmods if we don't use those mods? An example would be a necro wand with +2 Bone Spear and +1 to any curse. If I was only using the P&B tree, could I still use that wand if I did not use the curse? Or would that whole item be off the table?
1. Absolutely. Anything and everything can be shared between them. Technically you could even finish Act 2 with the first character before the second sets out. No more topaz problems! Well.. for the second one anyways.

2. Yep. Equipping is fine, using the skills is banned. I'll make sure to clarify that specifically when I put the Progress thread up.

--

Glad to see people are interested, I'll fine-tune it a bit and give people the rest of the week/weekend to raise questions and then I'll probably launch the tournament next week some time. Better do some stretches!
 
I can't see myself having time to spare with already too many unfinished things but very much like the tournament idea. It is in my opinion more interesting with skill restrictions than item restrictions, so long as the tournament is untwinked.

Incidentally, this tournament will finally let people have a use for the multitude of ridiculous charges of class skills on things that could have the same skills as staff mods.
 
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@Maltatai I’m definitely checking to see if decrep charges can be found for Normal
Duriel :) Or any other charge solution for a summoner Necro.
 
@PhineasB
Decrepify charges come only from Spellsteel unfortunately. But weaken and life tap charges would become valuable to necromancers as well as the others in this particular tournament, lower resist as well.
 
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I'm tempted to participate in this one. It's already fun just to dream about which builds I think I might be able to accomplish, in which two skill trees (or later, possibly one skill tree) is prohibited. (The list I came up with is longer than I expected...)
 
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Yeeey! Another tournament I'll never finish! But 2 more Guardians while I farm stuff with my sorc would not go amiss! :D
 
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