Pence pardon or Trump self pardon?

Mar 14, 2020
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It's coming down to the wire. Does Trump resign and let Pence pardon him or does he go the self pardon route? I think it will be the latter. It will be for all past and present crimes the fake news/deep state accuses him of committing.
 
Mar 14, 2020
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Obstruction of justice.
Perjury.
Bribery.
Conspiracy to defraud the United States.
Campaign finance violation.
Negligent homicide.
Several banking crimes related to loans.
Insurance fraud.
Ordered or coerced others to break the law.
Money laundering.
Rape.
State and federal tax crimes.
 

krischan

Moderator
Dec 24, 2019
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pardon for what? List the crimes he has been or will be convicted of.
For a pardon, Trump would have to make that list himself.

If he's really intending to pardon himself for anything, that would be hilarious. He would have to point out what he's going to pardon himself for and I guess his list will lack a few matters which his... erm, shimmering personality will prevent him from admitting to them. The dance of his enemies on his political corpse might be entertaining, but I'm aware of their hypocrisy as well.
 
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Dacar92

Moderator
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Dec 24, 2019
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Well I guess I did ask for a list. In order to be pardoned he would have to be convicted of something wouldn't he? Besides, I am not sure where that list came from but it sure seems made up, like most of the other things people have said about him. Such as Russian collusion. They spent 3 years talking about that and accusing him of it and impeaching him with zero proof and a made up dossier.
 

LizardSike

Member
Dec 16, 2020
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pardon for what? List the crimes he has been or will be convicted of.
You don't need to be convicted to have committed a crime, just because you aren't convicted doesn't mean you didn't commit a crime. Innocent until proven guilty is a thing sure but it doesn't change the fact that if you committed a crime you committed a crime. New York seems to be lining up to prosecute him as soon as he is out of office.

I mean if you just want the federal laws.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Keep_Track/comments/ecwnb7
If you want crimes you or I would be jailed for here is a nice break down.
https://www.reddit.com/r/EnoughTrumpSpam/comments/4sv46y
 

krischan

Moderator
Dec 24, 2019
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But he will have to name what he's going to pardon himself, so he cannot simply make a decree "Hereby I pardon myself of anything I did so far that", right?
 

krischan

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Dec 24, 2019
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It would still be hilarious, but also disturbing. His fanboys will probably not perceive it as such.
 

krischan

Moderator
Dec 24, 2019
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OK, so he pardoned his buddies and a couple of rappers etc.

I think there's a good reason to allow pardons ba a president. It's a political tool, e.g. in order to avoid prosecution by an unfriendly successor, no matter who's the good guy and who's the bad guy. It's good for the time of passing power from one president to the next, else this process might not happen smoothly enough, e.g. because the current president might try to keep his power out of fear of the next one. If you want it to be a juristic tool, it should need approval by a court, but it doesn't. I think there's a good reason for that, even though people might be pardoned who deserve a prison sentence, one of reason of state which is sometimes a "greater good" than justice.

What remains is the impression it makes on the people. Just don't forget who was accused or convicted of what and got away with it like that.
 
Mar 14, 2020
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He listened to his lawyers and didn't issue a self pardon or pardons to his kids. He did pardon Bannon who is charged with fraud crimes but not yet convicted.

Bannon is charged with stealing donations sent by MAGAs to build a border wall that Mexico was supposed to pay for. If Donald can steal from the rubes, Bannon should be able to. I don't have a problem with victimless crimes like this one.