Numbers Check on Venom Damage

[Speederländer]

Numbers Check on Venom Damage

Assuming a full venom pre-buff of the following equipment:

2x +3 Shadow claws with 2 facets each
+3 shadow helm with 2 facets
+3 shadow ammy
arachnid for +1
2 SOJs for +2
Shadow dancers for +2
Bramble: 45%
Trangs: 25%
anni for +1
10 shadow skill gcs for +10
Battle Cry from CTA for +1
Venom skill points (raw) = 20

Total venom skill level = 49

At level 49, venom base damage is 1390 to 1410, or an average of 1400 venom damage over .4 seconds with a skill duration of 5 minutes 12 seconds

1400 venom subject to:
bramble: 45%
trangs: 25%
facets: 30%

Yields: 100% bonus, or 2800 venom damage over .4 seconds

Now, the actual venom damage in hell is subject to the -100% PLR penalty, resulting in: 5600 venom damage over .8 seconds

So, now we have 5600 damage per hit occuring over .8 seconds.

Next, the bramble and trangs stay on after equipment change-out. This means we get double application on their poison mods yielding:
5600 x 1.70 = 9520 damage over .8 seconds

9520 subject to the 1/6 pvp penalty yields: 1586.6 actual PvP damage per application.

So, the PvP damage values run (per application):
0% target psn res: 1586
25% target psn res: 1190
50% target psn res: 793
75% target psn res: 396

Next, assume our target has 75% res (85% stacked) and we are in dueling in hell. Further, assume we are using a 50% death's web which reduces target psn res by 50%.

This means we have 85% - 50% = 35% psn res.

Thus, the damage per application in this case will be: 1031 per .8 seconds

That's real PvP damage done to a target with 75% res, an extra 10% stacked res, in hell.

With this in mind, if you are going high level venom as a weapon/shield kicker, death's web seems to be the weapon of choice (BoS/Fade considerations aside) unless you are fighting a target with massive stacked psn res and psn length reduction (such as a ww-sin).

On the flip side, if I have 2000 physical kick damage (a very high number), this yields 333 PvP damage at zero target DR. With target wearing 50% DR, physical damage per kick is 167.

So, if we have a target with 75(85) psn res and 50 DR, the damage breakdown for the above situation is:
PvP poison damage: 1031
PvP physical damage: 167

Big, big difference. And that's with 2000 physical damage kick. No slouch by any stretch. And even less of a slouch considering that the target can have 85% res for this case. Even if the target had 100% total psn res in hell, our numbers become:
PvP poison damage: 515
PvP physical damage: 167

Finally, consider the situation where the target is wearing 75% psn res, has 100 psn res above 75. This means that the death's web gives no help in bringing down target res. So, let's dump the web and equip a lacerator for amp.
PvP poison damage: 396
PvP physical damage: 334 (with amp active and 50% target DR)

Note that even with no death's web, 2000 physical kick damage, and amp, venom still is more damage.

Did I miss anything in the calc?

 

[bloody lance]

Assuming a full venom pre-buff of the following equipment:

2x +3 Shadow claws with 2 facets each
+3 shadow helm with 2 facets
+3 shadow ammy
arachnid for +1
2 SOJs for +2
Shadow dancers for +2
Bramble: 45%
Trangs: 25%
anni for +1
10 shadow skill gcs for +10
Battle Cry from CTA for +1
Venom skill points (raw) = 20

Total venom skill level = 49

At level 49, venom base damage is 1390 to 1410, or an average of 1400 venom damage over .4 seconds with a skill duration of 5 minutes 12 seconds

1400 venom subject to:
bramble: 45%
trangs: 25%
facets: 30%

Yields: 100% bonus, or 2800 venom damage over .4 seconds

Now, the actual venom damage in hell is subject to the -100% PLR penalty, resulting in: 5600 venom damage over .8 seconds

So, now we have 5600 damage per hit occuring over .8 seconds.

Next, the bramble and trangs stay on after equipment change-out. This means we get double application on their poison mods yielding:
5600 x 1.70 = 9520 damage over .8 seconds

9520 subject to the 1/6 pvp penalty yields: 1586.6 actual PvP damage per application.

So, the PvP damage values run (per application):
0% target psn res: 1586
25% target psn res: 1190
50% target psn res: 793
75% target psn res: 396

Next, assume our target has 75% res (85% stacked) and we are in dueling in hell. Further, assume we are using a 50% death's web which reduces target psn res by 50%.

This means we have 85% - 50% = 35% psn res.

Thus, the damage per application in this case will be: 1031 per .8 seconds

That's real PvP damage done to a target with 75% res, an extra 10% stacked res, in hell.

With this in mind, if you are going high level venom as a weapon/shield kicker, death's web seems to be the weapon of choice (BoS/Fade considerations aside) unless you are fighting a target with massive stacked psn res and psn length reduction (such as a ww-sin).

On the flip side, if I have 2000 physical kick damage (a very high number), this yields 333 PvP damage at zero target DR. With target wearing 50% DR, physical damage per kick is 167.

So, if we have a target with 75(85) psn res and 50 DR, the damage breakdown for the above situation is:
PvP poison damage: 1031
PvP physical damage: 167

Big, big difference. And that's with 2000 physical damage kick. No slouch by any stretch. And even less of a slouch considering that the target can have 85% res for this case. Even if the target had 100% total psn res in hell, our numbers become:
PvP poison damage: 515
PvP physical damage: 167

Finally, consider the situation where the target is wearing 75% psn res, has 100 psn res above 75. This means that the death's web gives no help in bringing down target res. So, let's dump the web and equip a lacerator for amp.
PvP poison damage: 396
PvP physical damage: 334 (with amp active and 50% target DR)

Note that even with no death's web, 2000 physical kick damage, and amp, venom still is more damage.

Did I miss anything in the calc?

to increase your psn dmg you could use a bone wand with charges of lower resist,
thats what i use and thats another -30% resist to enemy.

 

[Speederländer]

Note: My calc for lacerator damage with 50 DR is off. It's actually more than I have listed. I can't edit the original post anymore. In case anyone cares.

 

[ilkori]

Don't forget that if someone pops into a game and sees an assassin killing everyone, they will probably pop on at least one item with PLR. I don't know the common numbers, but I doubt it would ever be higher than 75%.

If they use an item with 75 PLR they would end up taking dmg * (1.25 / 2) = dmg * .625, which would bring everything down a bit. This modifier is for the last damage you listed. Granted, you would still be doing more poison damage than physical in every case but major stacked resists with Lacerator.

 

[skygoneblue]

Great job on the calculations Speeder - I am really happy to see you uncovering all of this good info! :clap:

One thing I have to admit that I am not a fan of is Death's Web's base WSM of [0]. Even with Burst of Speed at a pretty good level, socketing it with an IAS jewel or Shael might be in order to hit the last DTalon breakpoint. Granted, you could get IAS from other gear as well (Andariel's Visage, Nosferatu's Coil, Lava Gouts, etc), but the gear we have all been discussing doesn't commonly include that.

 

[Speederländer]

Great job on the calculations Speeder - I am really happy to see you uncovering all of this good info! :clap:

One thing I have to admit that I am not a fan of is Death's Web's base WSM of [0]. Even with Burst of Speed at a pretty good level, socketing it with an IAS jewel or Shael might be in order to hit the last DTalon breakpoint. Granted, you could get IAS from other gear as well (Andariel's Visage, Nosferatu's Coil, Lava Gouts, etc), but the gear we have all been discussing doesn't commonly include that.

BoS of the appropriate level + 15 ias in another source does the job. Shael the web or 15/15 the web or 15/15 your helm or what have you.

 

[skygoneblue]

Do these 15/15 jewels actually exist? I have never even seen one, and they sound like they would trade for multiple high runes if they did!

 

[Speederländer]

Do these 15/15 jewels actually exist? I have never even seen one, and they sound like they would trade for multiple high runes if they did!

They're traded on the blizz forums reasonably often. I traded for one a week or so ago. They run maybe 8 to 10 ISTs on ladder.

 

[skygoneblue]

Too bad they aren't duped like crazy on NL like 40/15s, 32020s, 290s, etc.
I have no hopes of getting one, so I think I'll just shoot for the Shael (or a Poison Facet).

That's another topic - what to put in your Death's Web? It seems obvious to me that your IAS is much more important than 5% poison damage, but you never know!