Next Delay, Piercing, and Double Throw

Zenigma

New member
Oct 12, 2020
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Hello all. I'm about to enter a testing phase of sorts on my untwinked throwbarb where I am going to test different sets of weapon combinations to decide which ones I will stick with as I enter the level grind. I'm hoping someone has access to some of this esoteric knowledge already, which will save me a considerable amount of time trying to test this in the field.

I'm trying to figure out how next delay impacts thrown weapons that pierce their target. According to the wiki page, "any other piercing projectiles" from the others listed have a next delay of 4 frames. Double throw is not on this list, hence the questions. I'm pretty sure that affects the skill double throw, but I want to be sure, because it will impact my gearing decisions for my barbarian. Using warshrike in combination with razortail grants 83% piercing on main hand, and theoretically 33% on off hand (also wondering if that applies to the offhand weapon--it visually appears that two projectiles always pass through, but I'm unable to determine with certainty if they actually do. Does piercing proc for both attacks from double throw skill, or does next delay prevent the item collision, causing it to always pass through?). Like I said, I have lots of testing to do to determine what my expectations with certain weapon sets are going to be.

What makes this all harder for me is that I lack recording software, so I can't take sample footage and slow it down to see what the interactions are between piercing mods on weapons, next delay, thrown weapon attack intervals on double throw, etc.

So I guess the questions on my mind are the following:
1) Does next delay apply to double throw when one of the projectiles pierces the target?
2) Is a piercing proc calculated for both attacks biconditionally? Which would be to say that there is one calculation made per double throw and either both attacks pierce or neither of the attacks pierce
3) Does next delay prevent the second projectile of double throw from colliding with the target, causing it to pass through the target?
4) Does anyone know the throw interval per projectile by wsm for double throw? The German attack speed calculator only displays the average. For example, the fastest double throw gets is 3.5 frames per attack. Is it a 2/5 interval or a 3/4 interval? Is there a table somewhere out there?

I understand that the answers to some of these questions may directly answer others. I'm just trying to cover my bases here 😅 anyone know if Onderduiker is still active? Iirc, their knowledge of barbarian skill mechanics is pretty much unmatched.
I apologize in advance if this is formatted poorly, I'm on mobile right now. Will edit later as needed.
(Edited for formatting)
 
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art_vandelay

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Mar 16, 2020
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Pierce is calculated separately for each missile and each target so you need to pass the test to pierce 8 times in order to hit the maximum of 8 hits with one double throw. (same for Multishot and Strafe, just with more missiles). With 83% pierce you have about a 32,7% chance to actually pass all 8 pierce tests per double throw.

If onderduiker writes that double throw doesn't have an NHD then that's probably it. In any case if it did have one and the first target is in NHD then that doesn't apply to the second target behind it since NHD is something that's tied to the unit being hit and not the spell/attack doing damage.

Also the fastest speed is pretty much unreachable without Faith if I recall correctly. On that note I was pretty successful with a Lacerator+War Shrike setup with Faith merc. You proc AD all the time and you hit with incredible speed. Switch is Lacerator+War Shrike again. Worked really well.
 

saracen85

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May 1, 2020
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Fastest attack is 3.5fpa right?

Also went Warshrike/Lacerator combo but have frenzy on LMB for the ias buff instead of Faith to reach those speeds.

As far as bugs on Double Throw, I don't notice any next delay. Only inflated damage numbers in LCS.
 

NoBozos

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Oct 16, 2020
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OBS recording studio is free and the most popular software to record videos and stream.

Out of curiosity, what is your intention in knowing this information?
 

Zenigma

New member
Oct 12, 2020
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22
3
Fastest attack is 3.5fpa right?

Also went Warshrike/Lacerator combo but have frenzy on LMB for the ias buff instead of Faith to reach those speeds.

As far as bugs on Double Throw, I don't notice any next delay. Only inflated damage numbers in LCS.
3.5 is the fastest, according to the German attack speed calculator.

I also use frenzy on lmb. It's convenient for moving around in crowds, I use it for the attack speed buff. All around good choice.

The LCS is truly a letdown; I've long known the damage numbers to not be accurate, but if they were.... Damn

OBS recording studio is free and the most popular software to record videos and stream.

Out of curiosity, what is your intention in knowing this information?
I will consider downloading OBS. Guess there's no harm in it.

The info will help me optimize items for my untwinked throwbarb's journey to level 99 (level 93 now)
 

NoBozos

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Oct 16, 2020
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The info will help me optimize items for my untwinked throwbarb's journey to level 99 (level 93 now)
That's awesome work, I just clvl 40 with mine and just killed normal Diablo for the first time. I should be in hell by the end of the weekend, I'm looking forward to sharing notes. I'm not UT though, I've used rare throwing weapons I've had on donkeys.
 

Zenigma

New member
Oct 12, 2020
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That's awesome work, I just clvl 40 with mine and just killed normal Diablo for the first time. I should be in hell by the end of the weekend, I'm looking forward to sharing notes. I'm not UT though, I've used rare throwing weapons I've had on donkeys.
I was pretty active in the untwinked 99er thread for a while on the old forum, at least really on until somewhere around... Page 60? Can't remember offhand. This character has seen his shares of highs and lows. But with the newly acquired warshrike, I figured it was finally time to sort out some of the questions I had gathered along the way. Taking a break from the character for a little bit as I've been drawn in by other d2 untwinked projects.
 
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NoBozos

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Oct 16, 2020
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I was pretty active in the untwinked 99er thread for a while on the old forum, at least really on until somewhere around... Page 60? Can't remember offhand. This character has seen his shares of highs and lows. But with the newly acquired warshrike, I figured it was finally time to sort out some of the questions I had gathered along the way. Taking a break from the character for a little bit as I've been drawn in by other d2 untwinked projects.
My hc ladder throw barb build that I've been playing around with for several years I'm rather proud of, and in following the old forum's UT thread I think I've figured out the easiest way to 99 it on /p8. Though the character I'm working on is a test run and is not UT, the build is certainly powerful enough and relatively easy to make gear wise. When he gets into hell I'll likely start a progression thread with discussion, videos and screens.