Necro Summoner Guide (Incontestable Greatness)

[mephistophilis]

Re: Necro Summoner Guide (Incontestable Greatness)

You forgot 3 fixes.
1) mana charms (you have more free space because of the setup, you need less resist)
2) mana pots
3) hard points in energy

I guess, but then you want to spend a fortune on those items just to have to use mana potions or energy points?

The mana charms are an ok choice but wouldnt you rather more mf or more life if you have freed up space?

I think energy points/pots/charms are more of a burden than a fix especially when you are asking to substitute easy to find gear for extremely pricey items like a really nice necro circ.

Nothing should have to be 'Fixed' on a really outstandingly geared character.

 

[AnimeCraze]

Re: Necro Summoner Guide (Incontestable Greatness)

Well, if you think about it, the crain shard is also a fix on the FHR. I mean, no reason to use it instead of HotO if that's what you care about.

 

[mephistophilis]

Re: Necro Summoner Guide (Incontestable Greatness)

Well, if you think about it, the crain shard is also a fix on the FHR. I mean, no reason to use it instead of HotO if that's what you care about.

Ok so you continue to use carin but now you lose shako. By doing that, you lose 2 skills for teleport bringing your cost to cast back up. You also lose 2 skills for Bo and BC. Yes you make those up with maras, but then you lose mana and mana regen that you would get automatically on a fcr Ammy.

You also have the ability to get some really nice mf out of shako. This is afterall a pvm build. even if you IST your circlet, you come up short against shako.


Not to mention your circlet (even if it has 90 mana) is going to bring your mana up a little higher than shako would, but to make up for the life shako has you are going to need to have that on your circ too. I hear the cashregister going off for a Necro circ that has

2 necro
20 fcr
Life
Mana
Strength
Resistance

 

[AnimeCraze]

Re: Necro Summoner Guide (Incontestable Greatness)

Ok so you continue to use carin but now you lose shako.

You misunderstood me. I am saying that the reason why carin is used at all is because you wanted higher FHR, which to me is simply a fix, just like how mana charms is a fix.

 

[mephistophilis]

Re: Necro Summoner Guide (Incontestable Greatness)

You misunderstood me. I am saying that the reason why carin is used at all is because you wanted higher FHR, which to me is simply a fix, just like how mana charms is a fix.

No its not a fix. There isnt a bad feature on it.

It has
Life
Mana
Skills
Replenish Life
FHR.
+ability to get open socket.

Its not a fix, its an optimal piece of equipment.

What does hoto have?
Dex
Damage to demons
Attack Rating to Demons
Mana Leech
Raven Charges
Oak Charges (too low to be a viable oak in hell)

thats 6 Useless mods.

Sure it has 5 good ones
but
Carin has 6 useful ones.

(they share +50% damage to undead as a useless mod so I didn't include that)

The ONLY wand that is better than Carin does not exist on ANY realm to my knowledge because the only way to get it is roll an elite wand with 6 perfect skulls 5 times

That is
2 Necro
+3 RS
+3 SM
20 FCR
Life
Mana
2 Open socket

Rare wand.

With that you could get fhr/res jewels and you'd have the ideal wand. But since thats like 1 of a kind, we need to base the build off something a little more practical.

 

[mephiztophelez]

Re: Necro Summoner Guide (Incontestable Greatness)

Untill someone tries this and gives feedback that warrants proper debate, you wont see me on this ****ty forum again.

goodbye, good riddance. i doubt you'll be missed.

if you can't accept the perfectly reasonable criticisms levelled at your build, don't post builds.

seriously, reccommending an infinity iron golem, that i can almost understand, but recommending a 2/20fcr ammy for a PVM BUILD? thats just ridiculous. especially for a summoner.

go back to your sycophants at jsp if you can't handle it here.

all your doing at jsp is making taulbourg richer.

 

[mephistophilis]

Re: Necro Summoner Guide (Incontestable Greatness)

goodbye, good riddance. i doubt you'll be missed.

if you can't accept the perfectly reasonable criticisms levelled at your build, don't post builds.

seriously, reccommending an infinity iron golem, that i can almost understand, but recommending a 2/20fcr ammy for a PVM BUILD? thats just ridiculous. especially for a summoner.

go back to your sycophants at jsp if you can't handle it here.

all your doing at jsp is making taulbourg richer.

Believe me, If I could find a better site, I wouldnt be on jsp. Paul is an absolute dbag. But the style of the forum is better than here even though the mods totally suck.

I would wear a 2/10 ammy with other mods if I could find my 2/3/3/20 rare wand but I cant so I am forced into my 2/20 ammy.


If you arent going to build it to try it, at least come up with specific reasons why your ideas are better. I just showed you why Carin/shako is better than hoto/rare circlet.

 

[mephiztophelez]

Re: Necro Summoner Guide (Incontestable Greatness)

Believe me, If I could find a better site, I wouldnt be on jsp. Paul is an absolute dbag. But the style of the forum is better than here even though the mods totally suck.

bugger off back to jsp if the "style is better"

I would wear a 2/10 ammy with other mods if I could find my 2/3/3/20 rare wand but I cant so I am forced into my 2/20 ammy.

huh? your not "forced" into a 2/20 ammy. you CHOOSE to use a 2/20 ammy.

if I had a +2nec/20fcr ammy, i would be using it on a pvp bone or poison build (or trading it off for something stupendous), not a pvm summoner who can solo their way to guardian without an ammy at all.

you don't "need" a 2/3/3/20 wand either. in fact, you don't need ANY equipment at all on a skellynec for any part of regular play (granted, i wouldn't take a naked summoner in to tackle uber trist).

If you arent going to build it to try it, at least come up with specific reasons why your ideas are better. I just showed you why Carin/shako is better than hoto/rare circlet.

no, i'm not going to build it. i have a summoner i'm quite happy with tyvm, i even posted a link to it. it probably cost me less than a HR to build. he started with whatever i had laying around and i slowly built up his gear as i found better stuff to use on him. these days, he's pretty gosu.

to be honest, the only thing in your build i think is downright "wrong" is failing to max out Corpse Explosion. on a pvm build, corpse explosion is the best area-clearing skill in the entire game. to my mind, giving it a measly single point is nerfing your overall effectivness in a big way.

using things like infinity iron golems and faith mercs and 2/20 ammy's is surplus to requirements and, in all, totally uneccessary. summoners certainly don't need that kind of kit to be effective. if i was into the whole "turning runewords into golems" side of things, i'd make an insight golem instead of an infinity one. thats at least acheivable by players who choose to avoid the dupestream.

overall, it's more your holier-than-thou, i-am-the-all-knowing-one-to-disagree-is-to-invite-hellfire-and-brimstone attitude which is getting you offside than anything else.

that and using a screenname very, very similar to mine.

so listen up, KID, either accept that the criticisms of your build have merit, or bugger off back to taulbourg. i'm sure he'd love to sell you some FG. (on that note, a LOT of members here are here because this forum does NOT condone the trading of pixels for ca$h. this forum also does not condone the use of hax. unlike jsp whos whole raison d'etre is the selling of both hacks and pixels. (for real profit. fairly solid rumour put taulbourgs monthly profit from jsp at ~$50,000+ during D2's heydays))

 

[mephistophilis]

Re: Necro Summoner Guide (Incontestable Greatness)

You are so stuck on NEED.

OBVIOUSLY YOU CAN RUN THE GAME NAKED THATS NOT THE POINT!

ITS NOT A 2 NECRO/20fcr AMMY its a 2 SUMMONS/20 FCR AMMY.

USE THAT ON YOUR BONER.

The point is not to make a scavanger. The point is to make a maximized efficiency model summoner. So gtfo if you cant understand the logic cuz right now you are acting more noobish than anyone I have ever met on a forum.

 

[mephiztophelez]

Re: Necro Summoner Guide (Incontestable Greatness)

The point is not to make a scavanger. The point is to make a maximized efficiency model summoner. So gtfo if you cant understand the logic cuz right now you are acting more noobish than anyone I have ever met on a forum.

there are several ways "efficiency" can be defined.

for some, efficiency is determined by the amount of %MF they can carry, for others, it's how survivable the build is, for some it's how cheap the build is. for others, it's how many runeworded itamz they can cram into their build.

as i've said before, this forum isn't populated by sycophants who will go "oooh, ahhh" over any build guide published. this forum has a proud tradition of shredding pretty much every build guide posted. sensible guide writers listen to the criticisms and accept there is more than one way to do pretty much anything.

you, however, seem to be stuck on the idea that your way is the only way and your build is the best build.

IT ISN'T. it's merely ONE way of doing things.

if you can't accept perfectly reasonable criticism, gtfo yourself. i doubt this forum is going to change it's habit on the screening of guides anytime soon. certainly not at the behest of a 22 post member who seems determined to ignore any and all reasonable advice offered.

"Incontestable Greatness" you called this build. well, it is most definatly contestable how much "greatness" this build offers.

ITS NOT A 2 NECRO/20fcr AMMY its a 2 SUMMONS/20 FCR AMMY.

USE THAT ON YOUR BONER.

you state quite clearly in your "rich mans setup" the following:

Amulet: 2 Necro (or Summons)/20 Faster Cast Rate/Strength if you can get it

aside from offering no alternatives, you havn't stated anywhere, that i can see, that YOUR ammy is +2summon instead of +2nec.

now go back to your sycophants at taulbourgs place if all you want is a bunch of gushy "ooh, ahhhs, infinity golems are gosu" replies to your build ideas.

in any event, congrats, you have just joined Ce Olba on my ignore list.

well done, child. Olba had over 3000 posts and is acknowledged (even by me) as being very knowledgeable about D2 and various builds (BvC's especially). it took him WEEKS to piss me off to the point i added him to my /ignore list.

you'r obviously adept at making friends and influencing people. kid.

 

[mephistophilis]

Re: Necro Summoner Guide (Incontestable Greatness)

I never said there wasnt other ways to do it. You have you head up your *** if you think that. I said this was the best.

Efficiency is maximizing your overall potential as a character. a perfect balance of EVERYTHING. Find a better gearset for that and Ill leave. till then **** you.

 

[Wizdomm]

Re: Necro Summoner Guide (Incontestable Greatness)

now go back to your sycophants at taulbourgs place if all you want is a bunch of gushy "ooh, ahhhs, infinity golems are gosu" replies to your build ideas.

LOL. I went to d2jsp to check out his posts over there. Did a quick search for his username in google and got this same guide over there and ALOT of negative replies there....basically due to his attitude. The guy calls every other summons necro build a "cookie-cutter crap necro."

He knows how to make friends.

 

[mephiztophelez]

Re: Necro Summoner Guide (Incontestable Greatness)

I said this was the best.

and others have disagreed with you. a fact you seem incapable of dealing with.

Efficiency is maximizing your overall potential as a character. a perfect balance of EVERYTHING. Find a better gearset for that and Ill leave. till then **** you.

"efficiency" in a computer game is a subjective measure depending on the individuals goals.

from here on, i'll contempt you with the ignore you deserve.

LOL. I went to d2jsp to check out his posts over there. Did a quick search for his username in google and got this same guide over there and ALOT of negative replies there....basically due to his attitude. The guy calls every other summons necro build a "cookie-cutter crap necro."

i'd rather avoid jsp altogether thanks.

He knows how to make friends.

so i gathered.

 

[AnimeCraze]

Re: Necro Summoner Guide (Incontestable Greatness)

Sure it has 5 good ones
but
Carin has 6 useful ones.
With that you could get fhr/res jewels and you'd have the ideal wand. But since thats like 1 of a kind, we need to base the build off something a little more practical.

It's not the number of mods that counts, it's how good the mods are. I mean, enigma is still better than every armor out there even if it has only 1 single mod, teleport. HotO has a few ridiculously good mods, while carin only has more OK mods.

LOL. I went to d2jsp to check out his posts over there. Did a quick search for his username in google and got this same guide over there and ALOT of negative replies there....basically due to his attitude. The guy calls every other summons necro build a "cookie-cutter crap necro."

He knows how to make friends.

Ouch!

 

[IntellectSucks]

Re: Necro Summoner Guide (Incontestable Greatness)

Look man, I think your build is a pretty damn good build but even I'm getting a little irritated at your constant insistance that this is the BEST summoner build. It's the best for YOUR play style. Not everyone will play the game the way you do. I play a summoner who focuses on WAY different things than you do and I'm perfectly content to sit in the back as my minions rip the monster mobs apart, even if it takes longer. If I want to tele around really quickly and do lots of damage, I'll play my light sorc. Nothing against your play style, just that it's not the reason why I specifically play a summoner. I think a lot of people have given valid points as to areas where this build would not fit THEIR play style. You've defended every one of your choices for every aspect of your build mutiple times. By this point everyone has made up their mind. If some people don't think that your build is the greatest, who cares?
Anyway, I think that everyone in this thread needs to chill out a little.

 

[McCain123]

Re: Necro Summoner Guide (Incontestable Greatness)

So you guys dont like the site that gets you massive stuff dirt cheap and thats fine, I think you should because you would be a lot more liberal in your play since you could get better gear cheap and have more fun.

I think that was adressed to me, so it deserves an answer. It is incredible easy to make profit on a site where there are so many clueless kids. I know it, because I have made some profit there and equipped my SC chars with all that elite stuff. Afterwards I realized, that the game had become boring, because I had all I could need and just sold everything I found. I switched to HC and in the new environment I was dirt poor and you know what? It felt great to get that first Shako, Occulus or other stuff, that would have given me absolutely no satisfaction in SC.

 

[slimejocke]

Re: Necro Summoner Guide (Incontestable Greatness)

I would use AoKL to summon, then switch to something more useful, like HotO, or even wizard spike. Carin shard doesn't have the resist to make it remotely useful IMO.

Noob Question: JWhy do people use AOKL to summon when you switch don't the summons dissappear?

 

[Greyeagle]

Re: Necro Summoner Guide (Incontestable Greatness)

Noob Question: JWhy do people use AOKL to summon when you switch don't the summons dissappear?

I hate to bring this thread to the top, so I suggest followup questions be posted in a new topic.

While the extra summons you can make disappear, the remaining ones retain their extra life/damage. So, it is the extra life/damage people are looking for.

 

[HafidzMD]

Re: Necro Summoner Guide (Incontestable Greatness)

Hmm.. I used to play a fast-paced summoner as primary attack, tele on top of monsters to and at the same time cast bonespears ( I had skillpoints leftovers ), once I had two or three corpses, I CE till everything cleans.

It was very very quick baal runs, as time of essence, hence I was top 2 necro on battlenet to reach level 99 (those were the days). Most of the time, everyone just tag along and I did all the killings. I had stopped D2 eversince.

During that time, this was 1.10; (and I know you would contest the marrowglitch and all, I was both a summoner and caster, and FCR was never an issue, even for those quick teleport to Throne).

I had an Act2 Merc and IM was the major problem but it happend 5% of the time and I think only say 50% of the 5% was a really major problem. In PvM, getting the first two corpse is not that hard and you can survive with <100 FCR)

My gear selection was more conservative and when you had done >4000 baal runs I had all the gear I wanted, through trading and all.

I did use Hoto, SoJ, Enigma, Shako, Mara, Arachnid. It was very quick and safe clearing crowded TPs especially with the clay golem. I remember a few occasions at 98 when surrounded by frenzy axe monsters (forgot their names already) and FHR wasnt of much problem really since the skellys would be my shield on teleing. The bigger problem (>75% of the time) is the skellys bug where when I tellied, they stayed at one location and my necro was on top and will get the first hit.

I never really had major issues on mana potions (this is with 0 in energy) because during lower levels I used the meditation polearm and changed to pride later, but was unhappy and I sticked to meditation.

Anyways, I think your Act 1 Merc is of Ok choice but I hate Act 1 Merc because they take their time because they will need a few seconds getting to safe location after u tele and then start shooting compared to Act 2.

And if your playing HC, the more tanks you have the better. You can never have more tanks. Heck, if I wouldnt trade my tank for anything. Especially because you would be teleing close to monsters.

 

[Damae]

Re: Necro Summoner Guide (Incontestable Greatness)

I'm of the school of thought in D2 that instead of number crunching all day long, you should try builds out yourself. I have a feeling that many of those number crunchers leave many aspects of a build out of the equation. Pure DPS numbers are not the only defining factor in a good necro build.

I just tried this build on open BNet and I have to say that it's EXTREMELY impressive PvM-wise. I tried dueling a wind druid and got my *** handed to me (which sucked cuz I lost that infinity golem), but no matter. Running Chaos was pretty much the equivalent to running around in the norm Blood Moor; your summons devour anything in sight. Also, to people who were whining about the dreaded FIRST BODY, your golem and a1 merc are also a force to be reckoned with and getting those bodies takes mere seconds. I was actually expecting her to just be a "walking aura", but she can easily take out Champion Venom Lords in a few seconds (by herself). Diablo himself was a joke.

My beef with this build comes from the act 1 merc, but not in a way that's been mentioned here (probably because too many people were busy number crunching to do any real tests, tsk tsk). The problem comes when the merc gets too far away from the action; the fanaticism/thorns auras no longer affect the party. This sucks because it's hard to get her back in the game when she's happily shooting monsters and not getting hit. When you try to tele to adjust, you run into the problem of your summons having to get back into killing mode which sucks with a bunch of angry oblivion knights surrounding you and already in attack mode.

The other problem I'm having is with the bugginess of multiple auras on the merc. I equip bramble first, then the faith bow, but USUALLY only the last one you equip will take effect. A few (wonderful) times, both were activated, which made the party even more fun.

An important thing to note is that you are NOT invincible by any means. Teleing into a pack of monsters is extremely dangerous, and what I like about this build is that it requires a lot more thinking than most necro builds. You need to tele then RUN, especially when the thought of shelling out for 2 more ber runes hangs over your head. Also, don't get cocky and try to duel anyone (or try to be brave if some *** hostiles you). This is not not not not NOT a PvP build at ALL and I guarantee you'll regret it when that golem dies.

So, in conclusion, this build is very impressive. It's expensive, yes (I wouldn't make it at the beginning of ladder, that's for sure), but for people who want an exciting and fun necro build that's pretty unique, this build won't let you down.