Naked Sorc - suggestions?

J

jrsilva

New member
Naked Sorc - suggestions?

Hello all. I am to make a single player naked sorcie and I need some advise on skills. I am still not sure about some rules I will impose my char, namely the use of charms on her or merc items. I will see about that. What i am sure is that she will use no items on her (not inventory or stash, talking about helms, shields, weapons, and so on).

Nevertheless, skills are my main concern. This is a 100% solo char. I would want to be ranged, since I will not be using any items. Also, even if my merc will use items, those items can only be found/made in that game. So I recon making an Infinity or Insight is kinda out of the question! So I will need at least 2 killing skills, the way I see it.

First great question is using TK/ES. It could be my only protection, so I would be inclined to say yes. But with no +skills, could I use only 1 point in ES and max TK? Also, in the Lightning tree, could static be viable with say 5 points? And Warmth at what level?

Some dual skill combos come to mind. Nova/FO, Hydra/FO, FW/FO.

Nova sounds tempting, because I would make the most of spending points in the Lightning tree (TK, ES, Tele, Static...) and it has no synergies aside LM. But I would need to stand close to minions. The usual Lightning sorc is out of the question, because of the huge synergies necessary for effectiveness.

In the Fire tree, FW and Hydra come to mind. Only Hydra has 2 synergies, which makes it hard. FW would require FM to be maxed, but with the the use of Lightning skills, we could dump the Cold Tree.

FO is the only Cold skill that sounds interesting. I used in the past, maxed yes, but with only some more points in CM (I didn't use it as a main attack, so no points spent in the synergy). Blizzard would sound nice, but I never used it and it seems a weak skill if not synergized.

So with what I know now, I would go something like this:

- FO 20
- CM 1
- Warmth 5
- Static 5
- Teleport 1
- Nova 20
- TK 20
- ES 1 (more after all the above)

All the help from you experts would be more than welcome! :smiley:
 
A complete lack of FCR loses my interest. Most underdog builds intrigue me, and I've tried quite a few myself, but this one doesn't beg my attention at all :(
 
I understand what you're saying, but this would be like the ultimate chalange... At least that's how I am facing it...:grin:
 
I play exclusively in SP, and the problem with TK/ES is that it leaves so few additional skillpoints if you need two viable killing skills from two different trees (and you DO, unless you want to rely upon your merc all the friggin' time, which quickly becomes cumbersome and boring). Another problem with ES/TK is mana-burn - one hit and then the monsters are tagging you with your low-life - and you won't have the FCR/FHR/FRW to escape. BTW, don't expect to skip sections with immunes - since you're naked your FCR will be too slow to teleport past anything reliably, so you'll have to fight almost everything, which means you will need dual-tree.

First up, I think you'll really want to have the cold tree in there somewhere. The chilling/slowing will make a huge difference for you, especially with your slow casting speed. Frozen Orb is certainly the best low-investment-but-kill-things skill from this tree, but another skill that I would strongly consider for crowd-control is Frost Nova. Even at level1, you'll still get 2 seconds of chill duration in Hell, which I suspect you'll find very useful. I'd even consider a few extra points in this FN for the added duration since you'll be casting everything at 13-frames (i.e. about 0.5 seconds per spell cast), which doesn't leave a lot of time for other spells, and obviously you won't be spamming FN to kill anything. Of course, the cold armours aren't bad single-pointers too.

From the lightning tree, I'm not so sure about Nova. Yes it's damage-per-skillpoint-spent is pretty decent, but the mana costs are outrageous. My most recent nova sorc had over 600 mana, and that was no where near enough (this was with an Insight merc and ~18 soft-points in Warmth). Having learned from that experience, I'd consider 1000 mana a minimum for a Nova sorc (with an Insight merc) - which is going to be tough to achieve while naked. I'd stay away from Nova and just use a single-point Static + merc.

From the fire tree, if you're looking to kill things, then Firewall >>>>>>>>> Hydra. Hydra is a nice early-warning spell that you can cast at the edge of the screen and see if there are monsters ahead, but it's a fairly slow killer without a lot of +skills (which you won't have). Firewall is viable with only a single-point mastery, but it really does kick butt with those 20 points in FM. Strategic use of teleport + tanking merc + firewall can actually provide a very effective (and safe) killing strategy.


If I were to attempt this, I would build a plain-ole FO/FW sorc, with a little FrostNova. On the plus side, using timered spells makes your lack of FCR a little more tolerable. As mentioned above, I'd also stay away from ES/TK, which means you could put all/most of your stat points into Vit (a few in NRG might not be a bad investment). Here's what I'd pick:

20 Frozen Orb (primary skill)
5-15 Cold Mastery
20 Firewall
10-20 FireMastery
1-10 FrostNova
1 point static, teleport, warmth, frozen/shiver and/or chilling armor... maybe a little extra in teleport to lower it's cost.


As for equiping charms and/or your merc... IMO a tanking merc will be required to make this viable - period. Naked mercs don't tank well, so you'll want to equip him. Charms obviously will make a big difference too, but it might be surviveable without them (obviously you'll need a lot of patience in any case, but that goes without saying).


Good luck - be sure to let us know how it turns out. BTW, you could always first try this untwinked, but wearing equipment. You'd still have a tough time, but it would allow you to fine-tune your approach for the naked attempt.
 
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I forgot to mention earlier - if you do equip your merc, put a Delerium helm/circlet on him (i.e. Delerium = 99% of the crowd control that you'll ever need).

... your naked sorc just became viable. :tongue:
 
Thanks a lot for your input! I think I will go with most of your advise, although I am still wondering about TK/ES. Being naked it would be my only line of defence (except for a cold armor at level 1!) from... well, everything! But your arguments do make all the sense, and perhaps my need for 2 different killing skills might make my doubts dissapear. :azn:

My merc, if not equiped will not exist, period! With FW, I gather that a merc would be most important to make minions stop, while I cast FW on their heads. But, even if I do use a merc, I will only use stuff I find in that game, no twinking. Any ideas for a cheap but viable merc gear? I assume a high def armor with life, cheap runeword for helm (maybe even armor) and a decent damage pole with LL (and IAS if I am that lucky!).

Thanks!:wink3:
 
True, I am not so familiar with the new runewords, because I only recently came back to the game :wink3:

Still, 2 problems might occur. One is that Insight does not provide LL to keep merc alive, so only if I find an help with some LL can Insight be an option. Plus, I think Insight is a ladder only runeword, so I should not be able to do it in SP, should I?
 
Yeah thats true but i think you can download some mod to enable Ladder Runewords in SP. And For a LL helm you cold try to get Tals Mask, they drop like crazy and have nice leech.
 
Heya,

I think I'd go with Hydra or Meteor (though Hydra would be my preference for naked). Very safe to play, and will track things on its own. Gives you time to walk around and pick up loot. Also auto attacks while your merc, if you have one, is going after someone. It's single player and will kill all through hell so long as they're not FI. That gives you room to grab your other attack. I would not bother with ES at all, you will not have the mana to truly take advantage of it, and your life will be low as well as basically no hit recovery or blocking chance, so you'll just be in constant recovery animation from being hit and die anyways to something strong enough to be a threat at range. Instead, just use TK (1 point) to fetch potions as they drop, and that's it. Use your points to get another attack skill from another tree. I would go for something low end that gets powerful as you pump it, like lighting. Orb is great but it's level 30 as well as Hydra. I would go with lighting. Maybe Lighting and then points into Chain Lighting for example. It's single player, so you will do fine damage wise with it, and your Hyrdas can do the LI's. Chain is a great spell since you can hit one and it will zip off to hit others at range. Again, safe.

Cheers,
 
There is not really anything that makes CL more viable naked on SP than it would on the Realms, so I'm not sure I understand MalbeauX's arguments.

FO/FW all the way. They are the only spells that pack enough punch without all the gear, and without too many skillpoints. Getting to level 30 naked shouldn't be much of a problem. Another option could be enchant/FO, although this would be much more merc reliant.
 
stephan said:
There is not really anything that makes CL more viable naked on SP than it would on the Realms, so I'm not sure I understand MalbeauX's arguments.
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Well, it wasn't mentioned the player setting, and chain lighting is a fantastic skill when you're playing through the game, and not just baal'n or something with infinity. If he's on /players 8 all the time, that's a different story, but it wasn't mentioned that I noticed. When I think naked/single player, I basically just revert to HC habits. Safe spells, range, and not playing most of the game in the hardest areas right away for exp, but rather, for the Quest, then back to the safe areas to kill.

Reading back through other comments though, FireWall is a fantastic skill still. It's just not a `super fast baal runner' skill, so it's less used on the realms. Definitely a great choice for a one-skill-maxed-does-lots-of-damage approach. If you get a freeze spike in there, you can hold 'em and fry 'em.

Cheers,



 
The trouble with FW is that you have to either find some way of getting the monsters to stay in the fire, which means either tanking them or building a very tough merc, or spend ages running backwards and forwards to drag them over the wall. It's pretty powerful, and you get a lot of bang for your 40 skill points, but it's hard to safely get the maximum effect out of it.
 
Lots of ideas indeed. I must say I did like the FO/Hydra idea, for the sately of the Hydra usage. Since my lil merc will only be using gear found at the game, I have some doubts regarding his ability to tank things while I fry them with FW. I have to think some more about it.

What I know so far is that I will be using maxed FO (don't know about how many points in CM), Static and Tele (1 point each, maybe 1-5 to make them safer/cheaper), and one fire skill (FW or Hydra). No TK/ES, because of all the great arguments you guys stated (mana cost, FHR absence). I will raise Ene to 50+ and the rest on Vita.

If I go with FW, then I will max FM and place 10-17 on CM. If I decide to go Hydra, then maybe CM 5 and then... Max FM and some points in Hydra synergies? Or just 1 FM and the rest in synergies?

I don't have much time to play, so progression will be slow. Nontheless, I will start tonight (GMT) and let you guys know the progress of Banzai (the lil sorcie's name).

Cheers :azn:
 
fw/fo is one of my fav sorc caster builds.

Little tip for firewall.

put a point in glacier spike. Freeze n Fry em :) (edit , crap already mentioned , but works great!)

also get used to walking the wall and learn "vertical firewall" instead of just the horizontal castings

I wish you luck on whats going to be a long and difficult journey.
 
Ermmm... "walking the wall and learn "vertical firewall" instead of just the horizontal castings"? Walking the wall is like casting FW and then following your own FW, making minions to be on the fire? How on earth do you cast vertical firewalls? :shocked:

Sorry for my ignorance, but I have not used FW in like 5 years!

Thanks! You guys are being a tremendous help!:thumbsup:
 
jrsilva said:
Ermmm... "walking the wall and learn "vertical firewall" instead of just the horizontal castings"? Walking the wall is like casting FW and then following your own FW, making minions to be on the fire? How on earth do you cast vertical firewalls? :shocked:

Sorry for my ignorance, but I have not used FW in like 5 years!

Thanks! You guys are being a tremendous help!:thumbsup:
Click to expand...

instead of namelocking the enemy and casting which will create a firewall that goes from left to right , Click the ground just to your left or right. this makes the wall go in a line in front of you. (sorta like inferno's pattern). harder to explain the do in game. essential skill though to make fw work well.

fw ----------------enemy----------------



instead

!
enemy
!
!
!
!
!
! you



 
As for cheap, untwinked, ready made, and effective merc equipment:

For the helm and armour, there are really only four options:
1. Shopping Vendors
2. Crafting 'Blood' items to attain lifeleech
3. Lucky drops
4. Running an area boss a few times.

... use whichever combination of those 4 things that works for your resources. FYI your merc might survive ~ok without any leech in Normal difficulty, so don't be over-obsessed with it early on.


Weapon.
Normal Difficulty
Early on, there is a cube recipe that creates magical polearms with a 'savage' prefix (66-80% ED). I've used this recipe EVERY time I've played untwinked. If you're lucky you'll get a nice suffix and a decent base-type polearm. The recipe is: Diamond (any quality) + 1 Staff (any type and quality) + 1 Kris (any quality) + 1 Belt (any type and quality) = Savage Polearm Class Weapon.

Save your chipped diamonds and some gold and you should be able to make ~10 of these by the time you get the cube in Act2 (Shop Fara and Drogan for plain staves/krises in Act2). With a little effort and luck, you should be able to make something to get you through to NM difficulty. If you're really lucky you'll get something that will hold up somewhat into NM. But don't be expecting a nice polearm loaded with great stats and damage to get you through the entire game - that ain't likely to happen (a Savage Partizan of the Leech would probably be the closest you'd get to ideal, and that would probably only work until late NM/early Hell).

Nightmare difficulty and beyond:
In act5 and early nightmare, start picking up and saving a few polearms from different areas. Cows, in normal difficulty, is a great place to find a base polearm too. After you have some, use ATMA (I'll respond to your PM in a bit) to check some item levels and compare them to this list to see which ones will give you 4 sockets from Larzuk's socketing quest (which you should have saved from Normal difficulty).

The Countess in Nightmare can drop all of the runes you need to make Insight. In fact, finding a 4-socket polearm is usually the hardest part (I've quested all the way into Hell difficulty without one because one didn't drop and I didn't have the socketing quests to spare on the merc).

One other polearm/spear that is sometimes overlooked is a 'Honor' runeword. It has pretty decent stats, but again, finding the right polearm/spear to make it in can be difficult sometimes. On the positive side, the runes aren't impossible to find.


... usually if I'm playing untwinked (which probably means I'm playing hardcore), this is pretty much the path I take to get the merc towards endgame. In any case though, this equipment does start to slow down late-game. Often by then I'll be high enough level to go back to Nightmare and do a few Meph and/or Baal runs to hopefully find a nice set/unique/rare item or two to make an improvement.
 
MalVeauX said:
Heya,

I think I'd go with Hydra or Meteor (though Hydra would be my preference for naked). Very safe to play, and will track things on its own. Gives you time to walk around and pick up loot. Also auto attacks while your merc, if you have one, is going after someone. It's single player and will kill all through hell so long as they're not FI. That gives you room to grab your other attack. I would not bother with ES at all, you will not have the mana to truly take advantage of it, and your life will be low as well as basically no hit recovery or blocking chance, so you'll just be in constant recovery animation from being hit and die anyways to something strong enough to be a threat at range. Instead, just use TK (1 point) to fetch potions as they drop, and that's it. Use your points to get another attack skill from another tree. I would go for something low end that gets powerful as you pump it, like lighting. Orb is great but it's level 30 as well as Hydra. I would go with lighting. Maybe Lighting and then points into Chain Lighting for example. It's single player, so you will do fine damage wise with it, and your Hyrdas can do the LI's. Chain is a great spell since you can hit one and it will zip off to hit others at range. Again, safe.

Cheers,
Click to expand...

Currently I have a hydra sorc that I am MPing with 2 other people (so it's not quite single-player, but the monster life isn't too high). We're playing untwinked HC, so my equipment is hardly fantastic (and it's based on survival more than +damage/skills). From my experience, and counting synergies, I would say that a ~30-point Firewall is about ~3 times faster at killing things than my ~70 point Hydra. Yes Hydra's better for range, but IMO the difference in kill speed is just too big to compensate for, especially considering the number of skill points. I will confess that every time I've tried Firewall I've always had mercs that can really tank, so getting a monster to stand in a firewall wasn't as much as an issue as it likely will be for jrsilva (still, Firewall is so powerful that your merc will only have problems with swarms - individual monsters don't last long in a firewall).

And, I do see your points about CL (I agree with most of them), but IMO it also needs too many skill points (and costs too much mana) to be effective. I had a quick look at a damage calculator, and with 20 CL, 20 LM, the average damage is ~550. Spend another 20 points into the Lightning synergy, and the average damage becomes ~980. If you factor in monster resistances, that damage won't amount to much, even with 60 points spent into the Lightning tree. FYI, Lightning's average damage was tolerable at 60 points spent, but it was still under 2k. IMO that's simply too low once you factor monster resistances, and it takes too many skill points.



 
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