Life steal or damage reduced by %

ronalpdinho

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Dec 1, 2009
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Life steal or damage reduced by %

hello.
i have a 78 level zealer.im on hell act1....i really need resistances now...i used to have %40 life steal.but i switched some of em with resistances.now i have %24... and i have %48 damage reduction...should i put some life stealing item instead damage reductive ones....and how does life steal works?? i dont get it..is it up to my damage?...i have 2200-2600 hit. so when i hit 2600 does it bring me back %24 of 2600 ? its clear that it doesnt...can anybody explain this to me
 
Re: Life steal or damage reduced by %

Monsters have resistances too so the actual damage you deal is lower, and IIRC life steal is nerfed down in hell by certain percentage.
 
Re: Life steal or damage reduced by %

Iirc, life leech works at 50% in NM and 25% in hell. Some monsters in hell also have reduced drain effectiveness. For example, (I think all) end act bosses are unleechable.

If you swing 2400 damage, and the monster has 20% damage resistance, and is only 80% effective for leeching, then you get floor(2400*.8*.8*.06)=92 life.

I'm pretty sure that the LL nerf for NM/hell is different from the "drain effectiveness".
 
Re: Life steal or damage reduced by %

I'm pretty sure that the LL nerf for NM/hell is different from the "drain effectiveness".

I think you're right. If I remember correctly Baal has a something like a 50% drain effectivness on top of the life leach nerf in NM and hell.

So on the paladin, the life leach drain in hell on normal critters is actually 6% or a quarter of the listed 24%. On Baal it would be 3% leach. I think I did the math right.


Oh, and on skelatal undead and Meph LL doesn't work.


 
Re: Life steal or damage reduced by %

I think you're right. If I remember correctly Baal has a something like a 50% drain effectivness on top of the life leach nerf in NM and hell.

So on the paladin, the life leach drain in hell on normal critters is actually 6% or a quarter of the listed 24%. On Baal it would be 3% leach. I think I did the math right.


Oh, and on skelatal undead and Meph LL doesn't work.

yes you are right..so is there a cap for LS...so i can stack up to 60 and have 15 in hell....what about damage red.....should i depend on it..


 
Re: Life steal or damage reduced by %

No, I don't think there is a cap on life leech. Of course, if you have Dracul's Grasp (or a lifetap wand), then life leech isn't an issue.

DR% is really good. I'd recommend trying to have that too. Life leech is a must, whereas DR is just good to have. Of course, the more DR you have, the less LL you need. You're just going to have to balance it yourself as it depends on many factors. Try a lowish-LL/highish-DR setup and see if it works.

I've been puttering around with my kicker. She has 14% life leech, life tap from Drac's, 50% DR, and 25 iDR. She still needs healing pots from time to time since Life Tap isn't always on. Of course, dragon talon doesn't deal as much direct physical damage as zeal can.

What gloves are you wearing? You can try crafting some blood gloves.

Code:
Blood Gloves
Magic Heavy Gloves/Sharkskin Gloves/Vampirebone Gloves

Nef Rune
Perfect Ruby
Any Jewel

Crushing Blow (5-10)%
(1-3)% Life Stolen Per Hit
+(10-20) To Life

The life steal mod you get automatically stacks with any that get rolled. So you can get 6% LL on your gloves. It might take a lot of tries to get that, though.
 
Re: Life steal or damage reduced by %

Just remember that there are many unleechable. And damage reduction is universal (always works).

So if you play HC, damage reduction > leech anytime. However, if you play SC, it doesn't matter much at all.
 
Re: Life steal or damage reduced by %

Well, DR only works against physical damage, whereas leech replaces life regardless of how it was lost. ;)
 
Re: Life steal or damage reduced by %

You are taking different concept. Your assumption is that the char would survive the hit and leech life back. That's a big if in playing HC. You lose HP/mana, drink a potion and fight on. You got completely knocked out, there is no way to get back. Therefore, anything that can reduce the damage taken is always better than any option to lose the full amount at the first place. HC is about one thing, one thing only, that is - Don't die.

SC, death doesn't matter, you can play a total glass canon, and not worry about anything else.

I'm in no way saying HC is better than SC, just they are different game.
 
Re: Life steal or damage reduced by %

Keep in mind too that you'll only leech off the physical damage you deal to monsters, so if part of your damage is elemental that'll reduce the amount of life gained after each successful hit too, on top of what everyone else said already.
 
Re: Life steal or damage reduced by %

Keep in mind too that you'll only leech off the physical damage you deal to monsters, so if part of your damage is elemental that'll reduce the amount of life gained after each successful hit too, on top of what everyone else said already.

o.o i didnt know that.i have +205-455 cold ,the rest is physical...

my gloves are venom grip
+60 poison over 4
%5 LS per hit
%5 crushing blow
and else


 
Re: Life steal or damage reduced by %

Do you have the ExepUnique armor Shaftstop? If not, I'd recommend getting that. It'll reduce damage by 30%. The belt String of Ears is great too, with life leech, MDR and PD%. There's also the Vampire Gaze helmet with LL, ML and DR%.
 
Re: Life steal or damage reduced by %

ronalpdinho:

Those are decent gloves, but crafted blood gloves can be much better. You should try some.

DeathMaster:

You are taking different concept. Your assumption is that the char would survive the hit and leech life back. That's a big if in playing HC. You lose HP/mana, drink a potion and fight on. You got completely knocked out, there is no way to get back. Therefore, anything that can reduce the damage taken is always better than any option to lose the full amount at the first place. HC is about one thing, one thing only, that is - Don't die.

SC, death doesn't matter, you can play a total glass canon, and not worry about anything else.

I'm in no way saying HC is better than SC, just they are different game.

Well, I didn't mention HC; I was talking about your first statement.

My point was about elemental damage, which DR doesn't help. You said that DR always works, which isn't exactly true. Life leech restores life no matter how it was lost, so if you're taking lightning damage, life leech is obviously more beneficial than DR.

I don't play HC, and I don't know if the OP does, but I'd have to guess that 50% DR with no (or very low) leech only delays the inevitable. You'd agree that life leech helps keep you alive, right? If you don't have enough life leech on a melee character, even one with 50% DR, you'll run into trouble, right? I never said that DR wasn't important, only that it alone isn't enough, and you have to balance it with other mods (like leech).


 
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Re: Life steal or damage reduced by %

Your also not factoring in block percentage. For a Zealer, I'd say it is 75%, so in that case Life Leech will be better overall. 1 point in sanctuary also makes Leech easily effective as undead can now be leeched from.

Then we have to inquire about normal mobs or boss packs with Amp, might, fant, extra strong, etc. Those are when %reduction shines through for those hard hits, but the normal hits, the leech will be more enough since block is maxed.
 
Re: Life steal or damage reduced by %

SnickerSnack said:
My point was about elemental damage, which DR doesn't help. You said that DR always works, which isn't exactly true. Life leech restores life no matter how it was lost, so if you're taking lightning damage, life leech is obviously more beneficial than DR.

Well, not exactly true in game of HC. The point is (for HC), if you need life leech to stay alive, you are not planning as the best as you could. I could argue that if you need leech to stay alive, it is only matter of time you see the deed screen. In HC, it is important that never count on leech.

SnickerSnack said:
I'd have to guess that 50% DR with no (or very low) leech only delays the inevitable.

If you keep playing with the same char, it is only matter of time, the game will always come up with something and you would make mistake if you play the same char long enough. Other than that, I do not agree.

SnickerSnack said:
You'd agree that life leech helps keep you alive, right?

Depending on what do you mean, I would both agree and disagree. LL is only help to keep alive better, this is true. But you shouldn't count on it to stay alive.

SnickerSnack said:
If you don't have enough life leech on a melee character, even one with 50% DR, you'll run into trouble, right? I never said that DR wasn't important, only that it alone isn't enough, and you have to balance it with other mods (like leech).

Everyone runs into trouble soon or later. Melee without LL is totally fine. While play HC, you shouldn't jump into mid of boss pack, you separate them, fight one or two at a time. LL is much less important. Where DR could save you from deed.

Give you an example, I'm no where near 1337, my pally melee with a lawbringer PB, his aura is conviction. So effectively no leech what so ever.
 
Re: Life steal or damage reduced by %

Well, not exactly true in game of HC. The point is (for HC), if you need life leech to stay alive, you are not planning as the best as you could. I could argue that if you need leech to stay alive, it is only matter of time you see the deed screen. In HC, it is important that never count on leech.
The same could be said for any other mod including %DR (if you rely on %DR to stay alive, what are you going to do when amped?). The difference between HC and and SC is not that of properties on items you use.



 
Re: Life steal or damage reduced by %

stephan said:
The same could be said for %DR (if you rely on %DR to stay alive, what are you going to do when amped?). The difference between HC and and SC is not that of properties on items you use.

Which is very true. however, I never said you need damage reduction to stay alive. My point was, at least for HC, damage reduction is better than leech. So if you have choice between leech and reduced damage, it is safer to go DR.

There are times, you could get unlucky, which would kill most of HC. However, having some DR may reduce the chance. eg. a doll died at point blank range, and you are amped. In the worst case, it will deal over 900 damage before amp. If your build do not have over 1.9k life, and you were unlucky to take the full blow. It will die, there is nothing you can do about it. However, if you were lucky to have some %DR, even 10% may save you if you have more than 1.7k life, but not yet 1.9k.
 
Re: Life steal or damage reduced by %

I don`t agree. I find leech to be better than DR in HC. Leech makes you able to play your characters more aggressively and you will deal more damage in a given time frame. First off, without leech your health pool will drop faster and you will probably not be at full health the majority of the time in a battle. Leech will keep your life bulb full at all times. This means that the DR can be offset by the fact that you might have 10% less life at the impact of destruction.

Also, nothing in the game should be able to one-shoot a melee character if you`re playing sensibly. Dolls, charging Zombies and a few other creatures have the potential to do it, but one should not really engage them in combat withouth having a summon or merc to take the blow. This means that 99% of the time, leech is much better than DR. The other 1% the DR might not even help.

I wold say go for leech, unless you have a real planned out build where the extra DR% would help you.
 
Re: Life steal or damage reduced by %

Thomh said:
Leech makes you able to play your characters more aggressively and you will deal more damage in a given time frame.

First, there is a different between aggressive (which is required sometimes) and reckless. By going aggressive, leech may help (consider non leechable), but there is nothing you cannot achieve with smart use of potions in that situation. If aggressive became reckless, nothing will help, you will have your character killed sooner or later.

Thomh said:
First off, without leech your health pool will drop faster and you will probably not be at full health the majority of the time in a battle.

That's not true. One key to stay alive in HC, is to separate tough packs. I can keep HP pool full most of time without any leech. All it requires is some tactics and if needed, a few potions that drops faster than you can drink.

Thomh said:
Leech will keep your life bulb full at all times. This means that the DR can be offset by the fact that you might have 10% less life at the impact of destruction.

Both are not true, and you will never offset DR by leech. Take my example of doll, how can you offset that?

Thomh said:
Also, nothing in the game should be able to one-shoot a melee character if you`re playing sensibly. Dolls, charging Zombies and a few other creatures have the potential to do it, but one should not really engage them in combat withouth having a summon or merc to take the blow.

Yes, there are many things can. Particularly door trap with multiple boss packs. And, in small space, it is not always possible to have your merc take all.

Thomh said:
This means that 99% of the time, leech is much better than DR. The other 1% the DR might not even help.

If you have to split, a realistic number might be 60%/40%. If I ask for advice for travel, would you say "in country danger land, you may get from A to B by helicopter faster, but there are 20% chance it will be shoot down or crash. if you travel in a tank, you would get there slower, but you only have 5% chance to get hurt. I highly recommend you go by helicopter"? Myself, I take the tank any day.
 
Re: Life steal or damage reduced by %

If you have to split, a realistic number might be 60%/40%. If I ask for advice for travel, would you say "in country danger land, you may get from A to B by helicopter faster, but there are 20% chance it will be shoot down or crash. if you travel in a tank, you would get there slower, but you only have 5% chance to get hurt. I highly recommend you go by helicopter"? Myself, I take the tank any day.

What about if it's Airwolf?

*mid-80s TV gag*



 
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