Leveling an avenger

[Norrit]

Leveling an avenger

Hi!

I'm currently playing yet another avenger (love that build), but this time instead of twinking and rushing, I'm playing slowly through the game on hardcore. Things are going well and I'm about to reach hell mode (I'm on act 5 nightmare). Gear is all self found and I've been lucky enough to get a duriel's shell from nightmare diablo quest drop and a manald before (helped tremendously with mana leech).

I've made some good discoveries, such as how good spirit shield is for avengers; i'm amazed that no guides mention spirit as a main shield, since it gives a huge mana pool which helps a lot, +2 skills, bonuses to resists and huge fhr. I would say that it is a strong contender that gives HoZ a run for its money depending on the base shield, and at the cost of ridiculously easy to find runes and a pally shield that you can get with very high resists by the time you reach early nightmare.

I'm running an act 3 cold merc just for the novelty of it and I have to say I'm impressed. I would much rather have that guy than the act 2 holy freeze. Slowing targets cannot be compared to freezing them solid (especially against strong guys like lister and friends on baal's throne). also because of conviction, he only spews a couple ice blasts before creatures drop. I wonder if he will keep on being this effective during hell mode, so if any of you had the experience before, let me know.

but my question is how should I spend my skill points while leveling. I followed asmo's avenger guide and put a single point in vengeance, then built the resist auras to 10 each (just fire and lite, cold is at 1 point), and conviction to a level i'm comfortable with (15 hard points, I expect to have at least +10 to all skills by the time I finish hell). So far I haven't had any AR problems thanks to conviction, but my AR is like 1k reaching the end of nightmare more. Asmo says that around 3k at level 85 plus conviction (level 25) should be enough to keep me going through hell.

The question is: should I keep focusing on the resist auras, or now is a good time to invest more into vengeance till I max it? is the extra AR going to be needed in early hell acts seeing that I have around 1k and conviction at level like 19 (after items)? Also, do I get more damage by increasing synergies, or by increasing the skill itself?

as for my merc, I think the answer should be obvious, but he DOES benefit from +sorc skill items right? because I ran into a visceratuant shield that I immediately gave to him without thinking about it too much. Otherwise I'll have to build him up some str to wear a spirit monarch when the time comes, and that will suck. also, somebody said that he deals the damage listed under "damage" on his screen, and therefore I should give him a good SWORD to increase his damage. that is rubbish right? there's no way to know how much damage he deals through his screen? how do I know what skill level is his ice blast and/or glacial spike? finally, does his skills synergize with one another (meaning does his glacial spike levels are "base" damage or are they taking into account his own ice blast levels as well?)

I know its a lot of questions, but I would love if anyone could answer them. Thanks in advance!

 

[Scudstorm]

Re: Leveling an avenger

I'm running an act 3 cold merc just for the novelty of it and I have to say I'm impressed. I would much rather have that guy than the act 2 holy freeze. Slowing targets cannot be compared to freezing them solid (especially against strong guys like lister and friends on baal's throne).

Unlike cold spells, HF affects Cold Immunes, which you probably haven't encountered a lot yet. Equipping a HF merc with stuff like Kelpies would help enormously against single tough targets. Or you can always go with the good old Insight.

also because of conviction, he only spews a couple ice blasts before creatures drop. I wonder if he will keep on being this effective during hell mode, so if any of you had the experience before, let me know.

His damage is just about useless in Hell, meaning all he'll be good for will be freezing stuff up.

The question is: should I keep focusing on the resist auras, or now is a good time to invest more into vengeance till I max it?

Depends on your mana situation. More into Vengeance only if you're leeching enough mana to support it.

is the extra AR going to be needed in early hell acts seeing that I have around 1k and conviction at level like 19 (after items)?

I doubt you'll need more AR early in Hell. But generally speaking, AR problems are more often resolved with gear than with skills.

Also, do I get more damage by increasing synergies, or by increasing the skill itself?

Every point into Vengeance gives 6% in each element, while every point into a synergy gives 10% in that particular element. Vengeance wins unless you're focusing on one element in particular (such as using items like Griffon's Eye, Nightveil's Wing, or Crescent Moon. But I doubt you're using those ).

as for my merc, I think the answer should be obvious, but he DOES benefit from +sorc skill items right?

No. Only the A5 merc can wear a class-specific item and benefits from class-specific +skills.

Otherwise I'll have to build him up some str to wear a spirit monarch when the time comes, and that will suck.

In an Eth shield if you can, but even then that's a lot of str. Lidless will do if you find one.

also, somebody said that he deals the damage listed under "damage" on his screen, and therefore I should give him a good SWORD to increase his damage. that is rubbish right?

Mostly rubbish. He does that damage when he swings his sword. Which is about... never.

there's no way to know how much damage he deals through his screen? how do I know what skill level is his ice blast and/or glacial spike?

No way to tell in-game, but there are charts in the Statistics forums.

finally, does his skills synergize with one another (meaning does his glacial spike levels are "base" damage or are they taking into account his own ice blast levels as well?)

Yes, they do.

 

[cralz]

Re: Leveling an avenger

No. Only the A5 merc can wear a class-specific item and benefits from class-specific +skills.

I remember reading in a merc guide here that the Act 3 mercs benefit from the +skills on Ormus' Robes, if it's for one of their skills. Although, since you're playing untwinked, you probably won't be getting that.

 

[Ragnarod]

Re: Leveling an avenger

I remember reading in a merc guide here that the Act 3 mercs benefit from the +skills on Ormus' Robes, if it's for one of their skills. Although, since you're playing untwinked, you probably won't be getting that.

After seeing that a +3 FB Ormus adds the skill levels to FB to any class using Trang's set I'm inclined to think it would work in the same way for mercs, sounds reasonable :scratchchin:

 

[Asmodeous1]

Re: Leveling an avenger

Hi!
but my question is how should I spend my skill points while leveling. I followed asmo's avenger guide and put a single point in vengeance, then built the resist auras to 10 each (just fire and lite, cold is at 1 point), and conviction to a level i'm comfortable with (15 hard points, I expect to have at least +10 to all skills by the time I finish hell). So far I haven't had any AR problems thanks to conviction, but my AR is like 1k reaching the end of nightmare more. Asmo says that around 3k at level 85 plus conviction (level 25) should be enough to keep me going through hell.

Fear not. Because at this stage you only have one hard point in vengeance which is why your AR is so low. Vengeance also boosts AR as well as the damage. The order of spending skill points I suggested means that you are essentially leveling up Vengeance thru hell difficulty which is where you need the AR and even then, it's really against the bosses of act 5 hell where you need an AR of 3 kay. Conviction's effect on target defence is that good.

The question is: should I keep focusing on the resist auras, or now is a good time to invest more into vengeance till I max it? is the extra AR going to be needed in early hell acts seeing that I have around 1k and conviction at level like 19 (after items)? Also, do I get more damage by increasing synergies, or by increasing the skill itself?

Nows the time to build up vengeance. Another reason to avoid building up vengeance early is because of the mana cost. Low level = low damage weapon = low mana leech. By high level you should have enough physical damage for mana leech to effectively run a high level of vengeance. Hence why I suggest to build up vengeance synergies first. You get the most bang for your buck for mana cost when the amount of mana returned from leeches is low. You'll find now as you put the points into vengeance that your damage and AR will scale up very nicely.

Enjoy.

 

[Kurumi]

Re: Leveling an avenger

Do avengers (and tesladins) even have AR troubles? If they stick with using Conviction as the main aura, then enemies will have crap defense scores anyways right?

 

[Norrit]

Re: Leveling an avenger

Thanks for the answers so far, they've been very helpful. I have reached level 71 and I'm currently on act 2 hell. I have maxed vengeance and conviction (figured I wouldn't have +10 all skills by the end of hell; +5 seems much more likely so maxed conviction was the way to go) and now I'm working on maxing resist lightning, then resist fire. So far, everything is ok but my killing speed is starting to suffer a bit. That is to be expected as we all know that avengers are very dependant on their weapon.

I've come across both pul and lum runes, and I have access to the pgems necessary to upgrade one of my exceptional unique weapons to its elite version. the question is, which one? my options are: The fetid sprinkler, Plague bearer or Fleshrender. I'll post the rest of my gear so you can help me on that choice:

helm: rare visionary/2 socket helm
ammy: Highlord's wrath
Armor: Duriel's Shell
shield: "Spirit" royal shield with base resists
glove: crafted with 20 IAS/crushing blow
Rings: manald heal and str/resists rare
belt: rare with 24 FHR and resists
boots: waterwalks

Now all three weapons are right now giving me about the same average kill speed. Plague bearer is the fastest (-10 base speed) and adds a ton of poison damage, which halts monster regeneration. Fleshrender has average speed (0 base) and provides crushing blow, open wounds and deadly strike (none of which applies to vengeance, I know, but it does make boss killing a lot faster). Finally the fetid sprinkler gives me +2 pally skills (which brings conviction to level 25) and half the poison dmg that plaguebearer does, but it is the slowest of them all (10 base speed)

Considering that I only get to upgrade one of those to its elite version, and also considering that I have a shael rune and a socket quest to spend, which of those should I go for? Or, if anyone can present another option, i'll be glad to hear it. Just remember that i'm going untwinked, self-found only, which means that if I haven't seen it drop with my very own two eyes, I won't use it. That means that donations are out, as are any form of trading. the only way i'll take something from someone else is if that person was in the same game as me and playing in the same area when the item dropped

So what should I do? should I upgrade one of the above? should I do endless pit runs hoping that something good will drop? I have exactly zero mf, and doing a single pit run can take up to half an hour because I'm such a slow killer right now, however I wouldn't like to spend my only lum and one of the two puls I have for something that will be useless down the line. I don't really expect to find a good unique like heaven's light anytime soon, or a mal rune to make myself an eth oath so those will probably be out of the question. So, is it worth it to upgrade any of those three weapons above?

 

[Scudstorm]

Re: Leveling an avenger

Since you have two Puls, how about making 'Crescent Moon'?

In a Pb, you'd reach 8fpa (fastest possible) with your current equipment (40 off-wep ias), and in a BA you'd reach 10fpa with your current equipment. I'm guessing you haven't found any BAs yet so those are out, but Pbs drop fairly often.

 

[Norrit]

Re: Leveling an avenger

Since you have two Puls, how about making 'Crescent Moon'?

In a Pb, you'd reach 8fpa (fastest possible) with your current equipment (40 off-wep ias), and in a BA you'd reach 10fpa with your current equipment. I'm guessing you haven't found any BAs yet so those are out, but Pbs drop fairly often.

So basically I want to make a crescent moon with the first elite sword/axe that I find, right? basically from what I saw, it's either going to be 10 frames (0 base speed like zerker axes/mythical swords), 9 frames (-10 base speed like cryptic swords/war spikes), or 8 frames (phase blades only) as the average damage on those weapons aren't really that different (I know technically some are more efficient than others slightly, but beggars can't be choosers here). I just need to know that other than speed, pretty much any elite 1 handed sword/axe will do. is that correct?

 

[Scudstorm]

Re: Leveling an avenger

Pretty much, yes.

Pbs do have another advantage over the others, besides its speed: it's indestructible so you can spend more gold gambling.

EDIT

Though in my experience Puls are much rarer drops than elite swords, if I were you I'd be patient and wait for a Pb to drop.

Unless you're doing single pass?

 

[Norrit]

Re: Leveling an avenger

no i'm not doing single pass as that would make it damn near impossible. it's already hard enough as it is (being hardcore and all).

The problem I see with the pb is the low base damage, isn't that a little detrimental to vengeance damage overall? I of course see the advantages of higher speed and indestructibility, but are those worth the lower damage overall? am I going to be able to finish the game properly with it (as in, am I going to be able to kill or i'll just stand there whacking at things for hours, which is pretty much what's happening now) ?

 

[Scudstorm]

Re: Leveling an avenger

Disregarding ctc Static and CB (which favors faster weapons), and disregarding whether you one-hit a monster or not (aka overkill damage, but that shouldn't be a factor for you anyways), here are the DPS ratios between the best base weapons of the 3 speeds:

Pb (best 8 fpa) vs BA (best 10 fpa):
4.125 : 4.75
or
1 : 1.151515151515152

Pb (best 8 fpa) vs Cryptic Sword (best 9 fpa):
4.125 : 4.555555555555
or
1 : 1.1043777104377

As you can see, the BA the Cryptic Sword have respectively 15.6% and 10.4% more dps than the Pb. Imo it won't make or break the game for you, but it really is your call

Another advantage of the Pb is resale/reuse value (Dreamadins and Shockadins like those).

But I do think if you find either of those weapons with 3o's, it's good enough for its purpose.

 

[Norrit]

Re: Leveling an avenger

well white mythical swords are dropping like crazy, while a 3os pb might take a while to actually drop. I'll keep looking for a day or two, if I can't find a white pb that I can roll 3os on or a 3os pb I think i'll make it in the mythical. thanks for the help scud, the pb really sounds a very solid option (thing is, untwinked is untwinked and I can't really hope to find anything )