Level 45 anti-caster kicker?

[Matt]

Level 45 anti-caster kicker?

So, I figure I'll kill 2 birds with one stone, and, having 2 computers, rush my now dead barbarian, AND the cheap, anti-caster kicker I've been itching to make, all in one swoop. I'll probably get them both hell rushes, though possibly only a NM rush for the kicker.

So what's the best (barring nice charms... going budget here) build here? I was thinking:
Dual tucs
Guilliames (Gotta love CB)
2x Ravens (high sorcs usually will be using orb or blizzard... and CBF and mana never hurt anyone either)
Mahim oak Ammy... nice stats, some resists, you know.
Lionheart armor: Huge stats, good resists, easy to make, nice armor.
Rare wyrmhide boots
Not sure on gloves//belt... I was thinking maybe Bloodfists//....something.

So, my questions:

Belt?
Gloves? (not IK on either... wont need more than the 115 str for guilliames...)
Stay at 45 and use rare wyrmhide, or go to 47 and use Gore riders?
Is my amulet right?

Skills: Max out, or close to it, claw block.
1 Dragon Flight
Max Fade?
1+ shadow warrior

Yeah, you can see I'm all confused on mid level kicker skills......

Thanks very much for your help, there's probably at least 1 obvious mistake I'll see tommorow, or someone else will point out, but I'm dead tired.. time to go to bed.

-Matt

 

[Cleglaw_Himself]

ask bohe.

He recently made a successful 45 magekiller.

 

[Phantom_Man]

My input-
-IIRC, 47 is Saracen's also.
-I was always partial to Rockstopper for the DR, Vit, and Res most of all. You'll need them.
-Only need 1 Shaow Warrior. The minimal life bonus otherwise won't be useful.
-Be sure to have a Dwarf or two handy for the Fire Sorcs.
-Belt? What the hell Matt? TGod...No substitutions.

 

[AzaZaz]

dsdf

my anti-sorc char was never defeated, albeit i was 67 vs 45 so you have a few more obstacles to conquer. The suggestions of dwarf is handy, i'll suggest having 2 dwarfs, you will rarely need both fire/ice in the same duel, so get all the absorb you can. may as well use fade vs bos since you'll be using df and wont need bos run speed. Tgods, most definately. If you're going up vs blizz sorcs you're gonna need an excess of cold res. maybe a suggestion would be to find a rare claw with amp charges and maybe some other helpful mods to pair with tucs. Nothin' meaner then an asn who's amped. Always be aware of a sorc's merc...an intelligent pvp sorc wont restrict his or herself to magical dmg. As for gloves I used hellmouth gaunts simply because there was really no better option...but I can't remember what lvl req they are so thats a gametime decision on your part.

 

[bohe]

matt, my magekiller is super ghetto, looks an awful lot like the one you suggest. i built her for those super-annoying high sorcs that plague low hc duels.

my changes.

rockstopper/pruby
bladebuckle (was feeling uncreative lol)
bloodfist

dual tucs, -req/single resist jewels.

max dflight/dtalon 48% claw block with 1 point
no fade, but still max res in nm with 40% cold absorb or dwarfs.

base str/dex. 255 vit. 900 life before charms. i dumped absolute crap on her. she didnt do too badly. ive gotten no ears so far, but fluxed sorcs in the high 80's easily.

i think a titan kicker could be sweet. i just found a +2 MA 20 str ammy, but lvl 50 T_T and only +2.

anyway, theyre a hell of a lot of fun, and a super-surprise, esp if u duel in norm ^_^

simply by accident, i realized that i had a WHOLE LOAD of FHR from this. like 180% or something lol. look it over.

 

[CoW-Melvin]

I'm surprised no ones mentioned this before. You were aiming for 45, but at 47 gore riders are available. A little less damage,I believe they are xx-80 and whyrmhide are xx-100 or around there, but the CB and OW will benifit alot greater than the extra damage of the whymhide boots. Unless you load up on r/w charms you will be running pretty slow because no BoS so the 30% runwalk can help with that. For gloves and belt i'd go with IK. 30 ias, 20 str/20 dex, extra 200 defence or so ontop of the high defence on the actual items there a pretty good choice. Or also the combo of IK gloves/tgods for 40str/40 dex and the mods from tgods.

 

[Valar-Wrath]

Matt, I don't know about kickers much, but how the heck did your barb die? I spent SOOOO much time helping you. :lol: J/K of course

Edit: How's the teeth buddy? Unless it's not til tonight or tomorrow..

 

[thamuzdevil]

max dflight (to me at least) = a potential waste of skills. i know this - i have played a few sc kickers. dflight will only connect when they are running. if they are holding still and have a shield? no matter who it is, your chance of hitting them will be minimal. try this (and im serious):

2-4 more points in weapon block (an add'l 5-10% block chance)
1 in fireblast (prereq)
1 in wake of fire
as many as you can after that into mind blast

Seriously. Stun them with MB, WoF, dflight, dtalon as necessary, flux or death. I do this in sc all the time with my dueler asn. MB works wonders for killing anyone, and is vital to me killing anyone melee, so casters it is 10x as effective. MB stops them dead in their tracks when they are teleing all over the place. WoF puts them into hit recovery, making your chance of connecting very good.

I BED OF YOU - dont waste points in dflight!

And OW is your friend. If you have made a connection and OW takes effect on a caster, it will start doing good damage to em, especially the high level ones. if things start getting hairy and you need to get out of there, run a bit, mind blast em again, wof, dflight, dtalon, run, mb, wof, dflight, dtalon, and when theyre down to about 1/5 hp (if for some strange reason you cant knock em out in 2 blasts) that OW will mroe than likely kill them.

EDIT: i just noticed at the end of Bohe's post he mentions FHR. you will have great FHR with this build. the best fights I have ever come up against were trappers with maxed MB and great +skills and cast rate - they STILL cant stop you, and your resists should be very good. Don't forget that weapon block also doesn't work as good dodging magic attacks while you run - I never have much luck with it, but holding still while kicking will help you. it's been my savior against many a bone necro. Good luck, have fun, and I hope one of those sorcs/necros/hammerdins/windys forgets to turn his/her chickenhack on

EDIT#2: PLUS when the person is down to almost no hp (an issue in sc, probably wont be much of one in hc) mind blast makes a great finishing move

 

[CoW-Melvin]

I suggest 1 into MB any +skills can give it a lil more of a punch, but you can incorprate it into what thamuzdevill said. They run, you MB, WoF, instead of running to them, taking more time, just DF in and start kicking. Can save time and is definately worth the few points to get it.

 

[AzaZaz]

I suggest 1 into MB any +skills can give it a lil more of a punch, but you can incorprate it into what thamuzdevill said. They run, you MB, WoF, instead of running to them, taking more time, just DF in and start kicking. Can save time and is definately worth the few points to get it.

i'm gonna have to go with melvin on this one. MB very useful indeed. Very good at stopping a person cold and opening up block. However you can't mind blast and move/cast at the same time, so in the time it takes you to mb and switch to attack, a sorc will be able to remove herself from the area. (providing this sorc knows when to leave) Against a 'tool' you'll get em easily. MB is very good for stun lock which is what i think you're suggesting muz but its not overly difficult to get out of stun lock with a few attempts of tele

 

[Matt]

Matt, I don't know about kickers much, but how the heck did your barb die? I spent SOOOO much time helping you. :lol: J/K of course

Edit: How's the teeth buddy? Unless it's not til tonight or tomorrow..

I made another post about my dead barb w/ details there. The teeth..... hurt. A lot. and the holes are still bleeding, not so much fun.

-Matt

 

[bohe]

i have played a few sc kickers.......

Seriously. Stun them with MB, WoF, dflight, dtalon as necessary, flux or death. I do this in sc all the time with my dueler asn. MB works wonders for killing anyone, and is vital to me killing anyone melee, so casters it is 10x as effective. MB stops them dead in their tracks when they are teleing all over the place. WoF puts them into hit recovery, making your chance of connecting very good.

Thamuz, this is wonderful advice for someone who duels in sc. in my experience with hc dueling, no sorc is going to hang around to let you mb stun them, then throw traps, THEN df in.

And OW is your friend. If you have made a connection and OW takes effect on a caster, it will start doing good damage to em, especially the high level ones. if things start getting hairy and you need to get out of there, run a bit, mind blast em again, wof, dflight, dtalon, run, mb, wof, dflight, dtalon, and when theyre down to about 1/5 hp (if for some strange reason you cant knock em out in 2 blasts) that OW will mroe than likely kill them.

are you honestly advocating open wounds as an active strategy in hc pvp? have you ever heard of those thingies called full rejuvenation potions? people use those.

open wounds is one of those things that is just a little bonus factored in at the end, not something you depend on to help make a kill every time. so, thats why i believe gores are not the best choice here.

i dont claim that my build is the best, but your hope here is to get a 1-2 shot kill on a sorc, and i see the best way to do that by using a good lvl DF.

mb is a waste IMO. sure it stops em dead in their tracks, but whos gonna hang around in a game while they sit there stunned and dying? once again, stunlock with MB is an sc tactic. it is futile in hc pvp. sure its great to keep them on their toes, but its no major benefit in hc.



@melvin- my glove and belt choice were motivated by my desire to stay at base str, thus leaving me with stats for life, so i could cheap out on the charms. if you were to build a well-funded titan kicker, IK/tgod or IK/IK would be the way to go. i was able to pull base str/dex on my sin, so i could pump vit.

I went 1 pt BOS, none fade, this, i see is a potential mistake. u can get a +3 shadow hat/ammy and claws to get lvl 13 BOS or fade with only 1 point invested. i went the damage route.

 

[Full_Circle]

Gloves: +3 MA / 20% IAS?

 

[AzaZaz]

mb is a waste IMO. sure it stops em dead in their tracks, but whos gonna hang around in a game while they sit there stunned and dying? once again, stunlock with MB is an sc tactic. it is futile in hc pvp. sure its great to keep them on their toes, but its no major benefit in hc.

Gonna have to disagree. Mind blast + traps = stun lock, and whether or not a person stays in the game is irrelevant to the fact that without mb, they can run through them. So It's a "rather safe then sorry" scenerio. Dont know how familiar you are with trappers (honestly I dont know), but if you are, you'll agree that some ppl, despite being caught in a trap will try to potion their way out of it....MB will make this ineffective.

I will agree with you that if you hope to stand there and blast a sorc with repeated mb to try to "own" her movements, that is futile. However one point as a diversionary technique, or a skill used to allow you that split second the asn needs to get within melee range is vital. Countless wins for my dragon claw asn came from that MB + DF + dragon claw combo. It has it's uses in hc is all i'm trying to advocate.

Cheers

 

[HelzCaretaker]

open wounds = useless, crushing blow vs a lower life char = ptless. Basically I'd suggest 20% ias +3 ma gloves if you can get them. Dtalon is a bit slow with fade and no ias . Shael the right tucs (that would be your main claw for adding bonuses to talon), rest of gear looks decent. If you wanna fight bone necs merc+shadow is very helpful, theres a stack bug so if you tele on top of a bspirit nec and they keep shooting nothing will hit. Personally I wouldn't suggest taking on high lvl sorc's try and stick with 70 and below, even a mf sorc with right skills + duel knowledge would wreck you. My suggestion is practice with her vs a friend on tele then landing kick b4 they can escape (bo friend naturally). With your set up you're looking at a 600-700 max dtalon kick with 5-6 kicks (considering no ma charms). I'd say rockstopper over guilliams (crushing blow is nice but most of your targets won't even have 1000 life). Getting to 200% cold resist in norm is recommended to overcome -cold resist from mastery.

 

[thamuzdevil]

Ok looking at the fact that we are in HC:

OW - I suppose is useless, they will juv up (like it was mentioned) when they start getting low.
CB - you are a caster killer, most targets wont have much hp, go for increased damage through +skills, etc.
MB - I still think the best bet to stop a caster, from my practical experience, is MB with WoF to put them in stun lock. They sit there stunned unless they have really good fhr.

Dflight is bugged, which is why i dont recommend any more than 1 in it, and really it should only be used for getting in close. if someone is fast teleing around, your dflight will miss almost all the time (80% at least). the only time i ever have success with dflight is when the target is running or when they are in stunlock from mb+wof. Im not kidding about this guys, dflight is sadly a 1 pt wonder. it suffers severe desynch issues, so even if they are running or in lock you will miss occassionally. I admit I was off about the OW thing in HC, but MB+WoF is your best bet to catch a caster. You wait til they cast something, spam MB, put WoF behind or right on top of em, and if necessary MB again to make sure they are locked. Then dflight to get close (may or may not hit, doesnt matter) then spam dtalon. Another good strategy is to put WoF around on a random pattern and wait til they start going off (when caster teles into one, etc), MB and they are locked.

And fade in my opinion is not the best bet. sure you get more res, but are you really going to be sitting around taking hits? youll die like that, res or not. and maxing fade has severe diminishing returns after about 7 pts, so its another assassin 1 pt wonder sadly. bos usually allows you to dodge the elemental attacks with the increased speed, and fade probably will slow you down enough to allow them to hit you easier. Use your speed to your advantage. I would suggest no more than 3 in either fade or bos.

And by all means, watch out for bone necros! If they build like me, they max 1 attack - either spear or spirit, spear being my favorite because it is very useful both pvm and pvp - and max wall, prison, etc and use a marrowalks. That is one massive bone armor that even a fully stacked kicker can barely touch.

Im sorry for just talking a ton about this, but ive dueled quite a lot with a kicker (in sc of course), and ive found most success in having massive speed, and a strong MB. dflight honestly is not worth it to put more than 1 in. I have maxed it on an assassin, and only put 1 in it on one, and they both work almost exactly the same. my MB/WoF(1 pt)/Dtalon dueler beat the dflight/dtalon dueler any day of the week against casters. If nothing else, MB and dflight without the WoF if they have good fhr/fast tele.

Good luck killing casters

 

[bohe]

i think im going to have to agree with za on this one. its a 1 point wonder, suitable for occasional use. definitely not worth maxing.

 

[Mert1]

I suspect making a char that cant get ears is a waste of time