Kartongen’s runeword rant and overambitious three septs.

[Kartongen]

Hello dear SPF.

This thread will be a wall of text. Or rather, it will be four walls of text all crammed into one thread. Since the four topics are all intertwined, I cannot find a good way to separate them. At first I thought of having them all in one post separate by individual spoilers, but that would still be too massive and scare people away. So I will release it in instalments with a few days between, hoping that makes it readable (and interesting) to some of you. Any and all commentary on my ramblings below are very welcome.


Since a long time now, I have not been able to fully get the bewildering 1.11 runewords out of my head. They are such an interesting concept with such a poor implementation. A while ago I got the idea to make a sept with each of them, with the hopes that I will then be able to get them out of my mind. My plan was to run such a sept in parallel with a untwinked sept, to make sure I get as little overlap as possible. This was then further complicated when I found interesting out-of-class uses for some of the runewords, instantly making me want to start yet another sept with out-of-class 1.11 runewords.

So, the four parts will have the rough content as follows:

Rune word rant – Where I give my reflection of the various 1.11 runewords.

1.11 Runeword sept – My thoughts on possible utilization for each of the 1.11 runewords, with requests for input. My aim and ambition are to try to make use of the less general parts of the runeword to greatest effect. So, no just utilizing the +2 skills (or at least a massive deduction on style-points if I do).
This will most likely be twinked (or at least “shared loot between the sept”.)

1.11 Runeword sept 2: The switcheroo – If I am to waste precious runes and bases on these runewords, I might as well utilize them. Besides, I found some (imo) fun and interesting ways to apply the bonuses of some of them. I’ll share my thoughts on possible utilization of the various runewords, with request for input.
This will most likely be twinked (or at least “shared loot between the sept”.)

Untwinked sept – A classical sept using FAM, GoMule and /players x. Here I am very interested in some input builds for some classes as well as which builds does not work untwinked. It is in this thread specifically since I would love to use a (more or less) unique build in each of the 21 characters in these septs.

Final build plan - A final plan for all 21 characters, based on my own research and any feedback and input recieved in this thread.

 

[Kartongen]

Runeword rant

Bone

Spoiler

Sol Um Um

15% Chance To Cast level 10 Bone Armor When Struck
15% Chance To Cast level 10 Bone Spear On Striking
+2 To Necromancer Skill Levels
+100-150 To Mana (varies)
All Resistances +30
Damage Reduced By 7


This to me is one of the better runeword designs of the 1.11 runewords, even if it is on the more expensive side.

The ctc aspect is good; fairly high chance to cast fairly high level spells. The bonespear might not be useful for many necromancers, but the bonearmour will be. And regardless, they are at least interesting.
Bonearmour will tank 110 damage unsynergized (absorbed damage * proc chance of 16,5), increasing to 710 damage absorbed (abs*proc of 106,5) with 20 points in bone wall and bone prison which will simultaneously synergize the bone spear.

The random bonuses (non ctc or skill) are also very useful. Two of them are the direct input of the runes used, but they are all very relevant and useful.

Verdict: expensive but useful.

Enlightenment

Spoiler

Pul Ral Sol

5% Chance To Cast Level 15 Blaze When Struck
5% Chance To Cast level 15 Fire Ball On Striking
+2 To Sorceress Skill Levels
+1 To Warmth
+30% Enhanced Defense
Fire Resist +30%
Damage Reduced By 7


To me this design had some nice ideas, but I have some issues with the implementation.

The ctc has high level spells, but with very low chance to cast. The spells will also be of limited use to someone who can’t synergize them in some way. (Apart from blaze making anyone look really cool.) With physical attacks, 5% ctc for what is essentially 162 damage (in some splash), is way too low. This one also has an o-skill, but for anyone with RWM insight blows this (warmth) out of the water (and is cheaper unless base in considered). So +1 warmth sounds good, but will probably make little difference in practice (even in vanilla imo).

The other random bonuses (non ctc or skill) are ok, but nothing amazing. Also, this costs a Pul.

Verdict: Expensive and almost useless. Possibly good for the skill bonus for a sorc.

Myth

Spoiler

Hel Amn Nef

3% Chance To Cast Level 1 Howl When Struck
10% Chance To Cast Level 1 Taunt On Striking
+2 To Barbarian Skill Levels
+30 Defense vs. Missile
Replenish Life +10
Attacker Takes Damage of 14
Requirements -15%


To me this one is poorly designed; I cannot even see what the idea was.

The ctc has interesting spells, but I wonder how it will work in practice. I guess the idea/effect is to get only one monster fighting you at the time, but I am unsure (and very curious about) how that will work in practice.

The random bonuses (non ctc or skill) are all really bad. None of these are things I would look for in a armour (possibly -req%, but not on a barb). Many are from the ingoing runes, but that is not a good argument in it’s defence (the designer could have picked more relevant runes). At least this is the cheapest runeword, and has a very low required level.

Verdict: Dirt cheap, but almost useless. Good only for +2 skills at low level/cost. (And I found a cross-class application I am excited about.)

Peace

Spoiler

Shael Thul Amn

4% Chance To Cast Level 5 Slow Missiles When Struck
2% Chance To Cast level 15 Valkyrie On Striking
+2 To Amazon Skill Levels
+20% Faster Hit Recovery
+2 To Critical Strike
Cold Resist +30%
Attacker Takes Damage of 14


This to me is one of the better runeword designs of the 1.11 runewords.

The ctc has very interesting defensive spells. 4% is a little on the lower side for slow missiles, but it is a very interesting spell. (Especially versus potion throwing slingers. ) And having a chance to get it off without the Amazon’s god-aweful cast rate is very nice. The Valkyrie is of high level (albeit 2 levels off the coveted rare warpike), and the proc-chance matters little once you have it up. However, the Valkyrie will not persist unless the wearer either have a hardpoint in Valkyrie or is wielding a Harmony bow (which has Valkyrie as an o-skill). But a 15th level Valkyrie is probably one of the best tanks in the game, so it should not be underestimated. The +2 critical strike as an o-skill is also very good, although somewhat eclipsed by how many sources of the very similar deadly strike.

The random bonuses (non ctc or skill) are also pretty good. Faster hit recovery is always nice to have and cold resist is also decent.

Verdict: Medium cost with some very interesting things. Even without a lasting Valkyrie I can see the Slow missiles, critical strike and faster hit recovery being a decent choice for many physical characters. (If Valkyrie persisted without softpoints, this would likely be a very popular runeword.)

Principle

Spoiler

Ral Gul Eld

100% Chance To Cast Level 5 Holy Bolt On Striking
+2 To Paladin Skill Levels
+50% Damage to Undead
+100-150 To Life (varies)
15% Slower Stamina Drain
+5% To Maximum Poison Resist
Fire Resist +30%


This… I… Who designed this!? This is by far the worst design in my opinion. It just feels like a bunch of random bonuses thrown together.
As the noob I am, I at least thought it was fairly cheap until I double checked how “high” a Gul is. Gul is the most expensive rune in all 1.11 runewords, and this is the most expensive runeword! So, what do you get from that.

The ctc is very interesting at first glance. 100% ctc – what an amazing design choice for one of these runewords to have that. However, they then took a 6th level highly situational spell of low skill level. So this adds around 44 damage to any undead you attack, or around 924 if you spend 40 skillpoints on synergies. If you can’t find a way to add more damage with 40 skillpoints… Well, you get the point. So the ctc is interesting, but virtually useless.

The random bonuses (non ctc or skill) are (with the exception of the life bonus and to some extent the fire resist) are all virtually useless.

Verdict: Very high cost with no redeeming factor. Only use if you absolutely need +2 skills on armour.

Rain

Spoiler

Ort Mal Ith

5% Chance To Cast Level 15 Cyclone Armor When Struck
5% Chance To Cast Level 15 Twister On Striking
+2 To Druid Skills
+100-150 To Mana
Lightning Resist +30%
Magic Damage Reduced By 7
15% Damage Taken Goes to Mana


This has some interesting things, but (like many of the 1.11 runewords) is missing things to make it compete with alternative armours.

The ctc seems to have the same idea in mind as bone. One secondary health pool when struck and one damaging spell when striking. They are both of good level (as with enlightenment), but the chance to cast is way to low (at least for the twister) and the damage of a 15th level unsynergized twister is about 45 (40 point synergy puts it at 227). So the twister aspect is pretty useless, but the cyclone armour is nice. 208 elemental damage absorbed with 0 synergy points is not bad (absorb*proc chance is about 10), and for a wind druid with 20 points in hurricane and tornado this will increase to 804 (abs*proc about 40).

The random bonuses (non ctc or skill) are pretty good. The mana pool increase is good, making the armour nice for a caster (read: elemental druid). It is sadly missing some fcr, which could really have increased its usefulness greatly. So in the end, many nice to haves but (skills apart) hardly no need to haves.

Verdict: High cost. Skills, mana and a passive cast cyclone armour probably makes it good for a wind druid.

Treachery

Spoiler

Shael Thul Lem

5% Chance To Cast Level 15 Fade When Struck
25% Chance To Cast level 15 Venom On Striking
+2 To Assassin Skills
+45% Increased Attack Speed
+20% Faster Hit Recovery
Cold Resist +30%
50% Extra Gold From Monsters


This runeword is just boring… in the context of this thread. It is very well designed and have many interesting bonuses and uses. You have all probably heard about this one, while the others probably are more unknown. This one seems way too good compared to the other 1.11 runewords – a true outlier.

The ctc is well thought out, with two useful buffs. Fade is probably the most desirable one with massive resistance bonuses to resist all (60) and 15% physical damage reduced. However, venom is hardly useless either. If you can keep it up (reapply it every 10 frames) it adds about 787 damage per second. Very useful.

The random bonuses (non ctc or skill) are insanely good, mainly due to the options +45% ias adds to a build. But the FHR, and to some extent cold resist, are also very nice.

Verdict: Medium cost. Very useful for any melee character and hireling moron. Fade still makes it ok for casters, but better options should not be too hard to find.

In a few days I will post the next part, 1.11 Runeword sept, so please feel free to share your opinion on these runewords, and on my rambling rant above.

 

[Miron]

Very interesting concept and I'm going to follow this thread.

I have been in a same position for a long long time, probably side effects of playing vanilla.... anyway, here are my 2 cents:

Bone - not much to say here, very useful runeword can be utilized on any CtC build with fast or multiple attacks. Very good option even for a necromancer if you want to focus on melee.

Enlightenment - a bit problematic, interesting CtC but hard to utilize effectively. Other mods do not allow much freedom with other equipment slots limiting you even more. Haven't figured this one yet but leaning towards:
- Zeal/Convinction paladin
- FC druid with Ravenlore and as much FRW as possible
- Some Amazon with strafe as main/backup

Myth - go to 3:35

Peace - on this we are at complete odds, no idea how to effectively use this runeword.
Verdict - useless.

Rain - shamelessly copied from one of my pat threads:
Rain runeword is an item that is hard to figure out. For cater type druids it offers +2 to all skills, substantial bonus to manna and…. nothing more, no FCR, no resists, no FHR, nothing really useful.
It’s not getting better for melee type either with no real bonus for stats, AR, IAS or anything really useful. It does offer CtC level 15 twister but at 5% and un-synergized… have I mentioned it was hard to figure out?

In the end I went for melee druid with points in tornado to synergize both twister and cyclone armor.

Principle - , you said it all, really crappy item. Still no idea what to do with it. Maybe a ranger with Goldstrike Arch? Add BH as backup skill? No idea really...

 

[Pb_pal]

Treachery is great, the rest are fringe-niche-useable at best. They really feel like a bunch of stuff just kinda got thrown at the wall to see what sticks. I'm extremely thankful for Treachery as I've used it a ton, but the rest... meh.

I've tried several times to find a fun way to theorycraft them into a sept, but I could never figure out a way I'd like to incorporate them beyond just the general 'using them for the sake of using them'.

Happy and excited to follow along with your adventures though, maybe you can find some cool things about some of them that could encourage their use for other! Good luck!

 

[skoolbus]

I've never used Principle, so this suggestion may be moot, but the most useful way I can see to make an attempt at using it would be max prayer and try and use the healing aspect of holy bolt. It would heal about 45 per bolt if I calculate right?, coupled with Zeal and you could keep up a constant stream to heal the mercenary. I don't know how the game decides if it's a healing holy bolt or an offensive holy bolt (or if it's always just offensive) since you aren't targeting when you cast it.

I agree with all of your assessments, just thought I'd mention the healing route (if that even works), and best of luck! I'm interested to know your opinions on how to use some of these (especially Enlightenment, Myth, Principle, and Rain) after you've given them a go.

 

[saracen85]

Looking forward to this! Makes for an interesting read, especially with the non-specific class usage.

My 2 cents on the runewords:

Treachery:
Nothing to see here. Too obvious.

Peace:
+2 CS reminds me of Insight. Insight reminds me of Chargers. This sure has some use with non-Barb melee builds with huge damage potential.
On an Amazon, I love the CTC Valk when I used the RW on my Plagueazon. It allowed me to max Decoy which I frequently used to heard mobs before throwing Plague Java. Plus the Valk would be fully synergized (albeit no killing power whatsoever).

Myth:
Never used this outside of a low level Singer.
On melee builds, Taunt is basically a free -5% enemy damage, I guess?

Rain:
Typical +2 skill body armor for a Druid.
But the CTC Cyclone Armor and healthy Mana bonus screams ES Sorc.

Bone:.
On a Necro, useful for +skills and CTCs when going melee.
Outside of it, it's a worse/expensive Lionheart/Smoke.

Principle:
I still refuse to make one of these.

Enlightenment:
Typical +2 skill body armor for a Sorc (though a Vipermagi is worth the +skill difference imo).
I actually used this on a Fireworks strafer. Nothing special really, but the effects were on theme.



Good luck and all the best on this project!

 

[Kartongen]

Thank you all for the comments. This had way more replies than I thought it would have. Really pumped up my excitement for this.

[...]
Peace - on this we are at complete odds, no idea how to effectively use this runeword.
Verdict - useless.
[...]

A lot of interesting insights here, and I feel we have the same general idea about most of these. But peace is one of my favorites of the batch, one of the few I might use outside of a sept/just +2 skills. Really fun to see someone with such a different take on it.

[Most of the runewords] really feel like a bunch of stuff just kinda got thrown at the wall to see what sticks. [...]

Yes. So much this!
To me it kinda looks like they were working on them in the order of the campfire (As, Am, N, B, S, P, D), and ran out of time somewhere halfway into necro (and just copypasted the necro concept for druid). Treatchery is amazing, Peace is pretty good, Bone(/Rain) has some nice to have (but is lacking need to have) and the rest are just so... unfinished.

I've tried several times to find a fun way to theorycraft them into a sept, but I could never figure out a way I'd like to incorporate them beyond just the general 'using them for the sake of using them'.

Haha, yeah. This has been on my mind for so long, but I just cant let it go. So I figured that maybe if I just grit my teeth and finish them, I can finally let it go?

@skoolbus Yeah, I have thought about the healing too, but you would need to position yourself so the bolt hits the merc first (I think it decides on impact whether to heal or damage). I just thought of melee at first, but maybe with a bow it could work. It would need constant repositioning though. Thanks. This gave me 2 "not good but what can you do, it's Principle" ideas to compare to eachother at least.

@saracen85 Lots of nice input here - much of which I thought about myself, but some new ideas aswell. Interesting.
Like I mentioned somewhere above in the huge wall of text I plan to try to utilise them for more than the +2 skills, so no singer for barb (even if that was my first thought aswell). So that leaves... Well, not much at all for like half of the runewords.

 

[saracen85]

I just remembered that at one point I tried using Bone on my Abbott-Charger.

Didn't really turn out that well though; The %CTC feels too low for it to be considered a reliable PDR substitute. Eventually I went with Iron Pelt.

 

[Kartongen]

Bonus: Builds of interest​

Here are some builds I am insterest in trying. Bold indicates strong interest, parenthesis indicate some interest. (A added some "|" to separade bold|normal|parenthesis since the bold is no vague on the forums.)
Feel free to suggest builds not listed here for the various septs though, as I may have missed some interesting way to build a character.

What I would love some help with is which character works well untwinked, input on which character you think can utilize the 1.11 runewords etc.

Assassin
Phoenix, fury, kicker | | (Trapper)

Amazon
Medusa, Magezon | Bowazon, Pure lightning | (Spear, Passive, Proc-a-zon… The list goes on, I love amazons.)

Necromancer
Bone, Poison | Melee/Golem, P-dagger | (Summoner)

Barbarian
Whirlwind, Frenzy | Berzerk, Concentrate, Singer | (Any with high find item, combined with one of the former if possible)

Sorceress
Enchantress, CL/FO (or other dual element), Executeress/Avenger, ES sorc (temped at melee, until I read up on manaburn) | | (and more)

Paladin
Tesladin (or cryodin), Zealot | | (Hammer, avenger)
I need more ideas here. Never was much for paladins.

Druid
Fury, Wind, Summoner | Fire, Rabies, Fireclaw [probably fireclaw mauler] |

 

[Kartongen]

1.11 Runeword sept​

In this sept, I will try to make use of the runewords to an as great effect as possible. Since +2 skills is a generic bonus on all of them, it gives low stylepoints. The more I can make each bonus be a part of the build – even if it somewhat (but not completely) reduces my overall efficiency – the better.

Treachery Assassin​

This runeword is so good I feel like it works almost any assassin build. I will likely use this as a “whichever build I don’t need to fill another sept gap” sort of thing. My initial thought was my Phoenix striker having this one, as she will then have plenty of skillpoints for synergies (saved on fade and venom), and benifit nicely from the +skills. This is also a runeword I dont mind making many of, in armours of increasing quality, and might make for the untwinked character aswell.

Peace amazon​

With 1 hardpoint in valkyrie, this runeword will give a great tank (saving many skillpoints), apart from the +skills greatly benifiting a non-physical attacker. I am thinking of giving this to a magezon, so that I can focus almost exclusively on the elemental arrows and synergies.

Bone Necromancer​

As the title suggest unintentionally, a bone necromancer is one of the two options I am considering. The other option I am considering is a melee-mancer with a bonehew (bone spear procs) and a strong golem (maybe made from a bonehew? I own 0 of them at the moment though). The second would "waste" the mana boost but use the bone spear proc nicely.

Myth Barbarian​

I am at a loss when it come to this one. This is on of those runewords which design give you no way to utilize it to satisfaction, in my opinion. A singer would benifit from the +2 skills, but not from anything else. A melee-fighter might have use of the procs... but I can just as easily see them becoming an annoyance with enemies running away. Very eager for suggestions here.

Enlightenment Sorceress​

This, like myth above, is a hard one for me. I am considering an enchantress for this, just to synergize the blaze a bit. It feels like very few stylepoints, but I cant really see how to benefit from this apart from the +skills otherwise. Perhaps use hellslayer (ctc fireball) and some other proc items, and make her a proc-based enchantress? (But then, what about fire immunes?) Very eager for suggestions here.

Principle Paladin​

Like myth and Enlightenment, this has very few things going for it apart from the +skills. A hammerdin would benefit from the +2 skills, but not from anything else. However, how can I actually use anything else in this runeword? The holybolt to heal a merc was mentioned, but would likely give a fairly small constribution.
If anyone can find any redeeming factor (apart from the skills) on this runeword, and/or has an idea which utilizes more of the runeword, am I extremely eager to hear it.

Rain Druid​

The ctc twister seems to weak to facilitate proc-melee, both in chance to proc and in damage, so my plan here is a straight wind druid. The ctc cyclone armour should give some nice survivability, and apart from the lacking faster cast rate it seems like a good wind armour (well, with the constraints given at least).

Questions is summary:​

• Myth on Barbarian. How can I utilize it apart from the +skills?
• Enlightenment on Sorceress. How can I utilize it apart from the +skills and maybe synergize blaze?
• Principle on Paladin. Can anything apart from +skills and life be made useful?

 

[Arjan]

1.11 Runeword sept​

In this sept, I will try to make use of the runewords to an as great effect as possible. Since +2 skills is a generic bonus on all of them, it gives low stylepoints. The more I can make each bonus be a part of the build – even if it somewhat (but not completely) reduces my overall efficiency – the better.

Treachery Assassin​

This runeword is so good I feel like it works almost any assassin build. I will likely use this as a “whichever build I don’t need to fill another sept gap” sort of thing. My initial thought was my Phoenix striker having this one, as she will then have plenty of skillpoints for synergies (saved on fade and venom), and benifit nicely from the +skills. This is also a runeword I dont mind making many of, in armours of increasing quality, and might make for the untwinked character aswell.

Peace amazon​

With 1 hardpoint in valkyrie, this runeword will give a great tank (saving many skillpoints), apart from the +skills greatly benifiting a non-physical attacker. I am thinking of giving this to a magezon, so that I can focus almost exclusively on the elemental arrows and synergies.

Bone Necromancer​

As the title suggest unintentionally, a bone necromancer is one of the two options I am considering. The other option I am considering is a melee-mancer with a bonehew (bone spear procs) and a strong golem (maybe made from a bonehew? I own 0 of them at the moment though). The second would "waste" the mana boost but use the bone spear proc nicely.

Myth Barbarian​

I am at a loss when it come to this one. This is on of those runewords which design give you no way to utilize it to satisfaction, in my opinion. A singer would benifit from the +2 skills, but not from anything else. A melee-fighter might have use of the procs... but I can just as easily see them becoming an annoyance with enemies running away. Very eager for suggestions here.

Enlightenment Sorceress​

This, like myth above, is a hard one for me. I am considering an enchantress for this, just to synergize the blaze a bit. It feels like very few stylepoints, but I cant really see how to benefit from this apart from the +skills otherwise. Perhaps use hellslayer (ctc fireball) and some other proc items, and make her a proc-based enchantress? (But then, what about fire immunes?) Very eager for suggestions here.

Principle Paladin​

Like myth and Enlightenment, this has very few things going for it apart from the +skills. A hammerdin would benefit from the +2 skills, but not from anything else. However, how can I actually use anything else in this runeword? The holybolt to heal a merc was mentioned, but would likely give a fairly small constribution.
If anyone can find any redeeming factor (apart from the skills) on this runeword, and/or has an idea which utilizes more of the runeword, am I extremely eager to hear it.

Rain Druid​

The ctc twister seems to weak to facilitate proc-melee, both in chance to proc and in damage, so my plan here is a straight wind druid. The ctc cyclone armour should give some nice survivability, and apart from the lacking faster cast rate it seems like a good wind armour (well, with the constraints given at least).

Questions is summary:​

• Myth on Barbarian. How can I utilize it apart from the +skills?
• Enlightenment on Sorceress. How can I utilize it apart from the +skills and maybe synergize blaze?
• Principle on Paladin. Can anything apart from +skills and life be made useful?

I just made the peace runeword this afternoon and gave it a go. It spawns that Valkyrie much more often than I would have thought. Haven't seen the slow missile one yet but I kinda like the idea of not being hit enough to get used to it...

The cry that Valkyrie gives when she is recasted is scary as hell. I eh just wanted the +2. made the end of normal a walk in the parc

 

[Miron]

I strongly suggest using Myth on throw barb. Use

1.11 Runeword sept​

In this sept, I will try to make use of the runewords to an as great effect as possible. Since +2 skills is a generic bonus on all of them, it gives low stylepoints. The more I can make each bonus be a part of the build – even if it somewhat (but not completely) reduces my overall efficiency – the better.

Treachery Assassin​

This runeword is so good I feel like it works almost any assassin build. I will likely use this as a “whichever build I don’t need to fill another sept gap” sort of thing. My initial thought was my Phoenix striker having this one, as she will then have plenty of skillpoints for synergies (saved on fade and venom), and benifit nicely from the +skills. This is also a runeword I dont mind making many of, in armours of increasing quality, and might make for the untwinked character aswell.

Peace amazon​

With 1 hardpoint in valkyrie, this runeword will give a great tank (saving many skillpoints), apart from the +skills greatly benifiting a non-physical attacker. I am thinking of giving this to a magezon, so that I can focus almost exclusively on the elemental arrows and synergies.

Questions is summary:​

• Myth on Barbarian. How can I utilize it apart from the +skills?
• Enlightenment on Sorceress. How can I utilize it apart from the +skills and maybe synergize blaze?
• Principle on Paladin. Can anything apart from +skills and life be made useful?

Myth - I strongly recommend using it on throw barb, combine it with grim ward to abuse the game AI.

Principle - How about building around %ED to demons & undead? You can go melee or ranged

 

[Maltatai]

Peace is the most important of the 1.11 runewords to me as it basically grants a level 15 valkyrie for a one point investment, and you are guaranteed to find the runes in any playthrough. Standard equipment for any amazon not maxing valkyrie. I would like to try if a zealot could keep the valkyries coming fast enough to use it as a temporary distraction.

Myth would be nice to use for a barbarian with very spread out skills. If you don''t have many other sources of skill levels it will grant a lot of bonuses. Personally I am very fond of regeneration as well. I would make something like a singer/frenzy/berserk hybrid barbarian fo that runeword. I agree that the taunting seems most useable for a throwing charcter.

Enlightenment is quite nice in my opinion if you go for a caster party because a Pul rune is not so easy to make use of in that case. Fire resistance and PDR are nice bonuses to have along with it. An archmage with only timered main skills might make good use of it, as faster cast rate won't be so important.

Treachery, apart from obviously being great for many assassin builds, is hilarious to overchage poison javelins with and probably equally so for poison dagger.

 

[Kartongen]

I just made the peace runeword this afternoon and gave it a go. It spawns that Valkyrie much more often than I would have thought. Haven't seen the slow missile one yet but I kinda like the idea of not being hit enough to get used to it...

The cry that Valkyrie gives when she is recasted is scary as hell. I eh just wanted the +2. made the end of normal a walk in the parc

Yeah, I saw that in your thread. Nice to see, I think it's a really good one for amazons. That thing about the valkyrie death sound was something I had forgotten until you posted. You don't hear it often if you just invest in the skill, bit with that runeword... I guess that's one con I forgot to mention.
Edit: I can actually hear the sound in my head now, even though I have not played an Amazon with a valkyrie in 7-ish years.

@Miron Regarding myth, getting some actual use our of grim ward does sound intriguing. I'll read up some in throwbarbs. Cheers.

@Maltatai I had a similar idea about using temporary valks some 10 years ago, but I have a vague memory they despawn instantly. Still, could be worth checking out.

Regarding treachery's venom, I think you will see in the next post (runeword sept 2 - the switcheroo) that we had some similar thoughts.

Lastly I just wanted to say I really appreciate all the feedback and input from all of you.

 

[Mrc_North]

Thanks for this discussion. There is some really interesting ideas in this thread

 

[Maltatai]

The unstable Peace valkyrie despawns instantly if a mercenary triggers the casting but if the main character does it she can stay around for a short time. Still seconds and not minutes, but possibly enough for the fastest attackers to make use of it. In practise it is more like a chance to cast an Amazon decoy rather than a valkyrie, a temporary but durable distraction.

 

[Kartongen]

The unstable Peace valkyrie despawns instantly if a mercenary triggers the casting but if the main character does it she can stay around for a short time. Still seconds and not minutes, but possibly enough for the fastest attackers to make use of it. In practise it is more like a chance to cast an Amazon decoy rather than a valkyrie, a temporary but durable distraction.

Thanks for this. It should indeed help to take some heat off them. If I recall correctly (I cant double check, and I have a kid in my arms) valkyrie has a really high AI priority too. Surpassed only by decoy.

Do all summons from "non-skill sources" (ctc, charges etc.) despawn similarly? Iron golem in charges for instance.

 

[Maltatai]

No, charged minions remain until you exit the game or they are destroyed or you unequip or weapon switch from the item with charges. So think twice before comitting too nice items to creating a godly Metalgrid* iron golem... And yes, valkyries are exceedingly attractive. I've been able to bypass seas of monsters flinging themselves at the poor fellow.

*From one thing to another, Metalgrid could easily be used to parody the old Judas Priest song "Metal gods", which thematically also suits the iron golems.

 

[Swamigoon]

I need more ideas here. Never was much for paladins.

Would you consider a vengeance paladin with resist auras? I really enjoyed playing one last year. Rather than an avenger with a conviction aura, he's more of an "angel" styled paladin with defensive auras.

Your paladin's vengeance would hit hard, because of his very high elemental damage synergies. With Salvation or other resists auras, he would easily reach 85% resists to each element. With a Principle runeword and enough poison resist in other gear, he should be able to push his poison resist to 80% as well.

Also, the 100%-chance-to-proc Holy Bolt on striking is the clearest (that is, brightest and loudest) evidence you can get for each successful hit. Those audiovisual confirmations can help you, as a player, to more easily judge just how effective is your attack rating, and let you better decide whether you should put points into dex instead of str or vit at the paladin's next level-up.

(Principle is a disappointing runeword, I agree with you. These are are desperate grasping-at-straws attempts to find a way to make it useful.)

 

[Kartongen]

@Swamigoon A very interesting idea. I will look into avengers a bit more. While I know conviction is considered the genu anthophila, playing something a little less cookie-cutter sounds intriguing. Then again, I will have to make sure I don't cripple myself too much. The paladin might be using principle after all.

The point about using Holy Bolt as a hit indicator is both hilarious and brilliant. This forum never disappoints when it comes to finding creative ways to utilize things.
I even considered using it as an example for work when we were asked to show "what is an innovative environment for you". (But could not find the right way to frame it. Also, they meant more in terms of physical environment, technically.)

[...]
These are are desperate grasping-at-straws attempts to find a way to make [them] useful.

Never has a more accurate statement been made. I think I will make this the new name of my sept.