Justification for cheating?
- Thread starter Mr Evil
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Azonian said:
It seems like you are either a friend of Lord Chaos, or you are trolling just like him, OR you ARE him. Please go to www.battle.net where they support cheating. Here we don't.
Azonian said:
Ok I say this one more time. I've said it already too many times, but since you are as stubborn as Lord Chaos: people who read message boards or other pages that give information can hardly be called cheaters. it's called RESEARCH. People LIKE YOU however who have to use a THIRD PARTY PROGRAMS that ALTER the game are cheaters. I don't understand what's so difficult about it. You use MH, you cheat.
Lord Chaos
New member
Daemonaz said:
Lets try the EULA again, since you guys love it so much:
(ii) publish and/or distribute the computer images, sound,
files, fonts, graphics, clipart, animations, photographs,
databases or other content of the Program (including without
limitation, for resale printed materials for your personal
or business use (e.g., flyers and brochures) and on your
personal and business website); use any of the computer
images related to identifiable individuals or entities in a
manner which suggests their association with or endorsement
of any product or services;
Clearly state you cannot distribute CONTENT of the program on websites...just because Blizzard doesn't enforce it doesn't make it any less part of the rules.
Lord Chaos said:
You do understand right that many of the information gotten from the game has been done on a testing bases, like IAS tables etc. I'm not saying that EVERYTHING has been extracted like that, but certainly many things have been.
Anyways, again you are trying to justify the reason for cheating by saying when we read a page with information about the game, we're basically cheating too. Again you ignore the fact that MH is a THIRD PARTY PROGRAM which specifically means you have to install it on your PC and run it, unlike browing internet, which requires nothing.
Lord Chaos said:
I hope you are aware of the fact that you have just effectively destroyed your own argument by quoting this. As Usufruct has told you repeatedly, you do not have to disassemble MPQ files to read them. Heck, I can read the MPQ files right now if I want to.
The statement you quoted above is concerned with copyright infringement with the intent to profit. That means ripping off portions of the code with the intent of making it one's own, then profitting off of it.
Mod-making is a major part of Diablo 2 -- it's perfectly legal, even encouraged by Blizzard itself (With 1.10, Blizzard rewrote a lot of their own code with the intent of making things easier for mod-makers). If you want proof of that, head on over to the Phrozen Keep and check it out.
Again, mod-making is legal as long as it is a free service, Blizzard is properly credited and acknowleged as the owners of the orginal source code, aaaaaaaand the mod is not used to replace or modify the original game as played on Closed Battle.net.
In summary, you are taking the EULA out of context. If you want to argue pro-maphack, don't quote it.
Of course, I understand that you are arguing a different point here (the sharing of information as an unfair advantage) -- unfortunately, you are wrong here, especially if you are talking about how MPQs are manipulated. You can always email Blizzard and ask about this.
OT: I like your new sig, Usu. :lol:
Sein Schatten
New member
" hope you are aware of the fact that you have just effectively destroyed your own argument by quoting this. As Usufruct has told you repeatedly, you do not have to disassemble MPQ files to read them."
"unfortunately, you are wrong here, especially if you are talking about how MPQs are manipulated."
how? tell me how do you view the code and gain useable information?
he has a point. you are not allowed to use a prog to view the mpqs.
"unfortunately, you are wrong here, especially if you are talking about how MPQs are manipulated."
how? tell me how do you view the code and gain useable information?
he has a point. you are not allowed to use a prog to view the mpqs.
Lord Gargoyle said:
You can look at the files on your computer all you want, Lord Gargoyle, that is not illegal. It becomes illegal under certain circumstances when you try to alter the source code. Using a reader to look at them does not alter them.
The argument that all third party software is somehow illegal is fruitless. Windows is third party and you use it to run the game. Heck, whenever the game is patched you need to use Notepad to read the patch.txt. Notepad is obviously third party. Neither of those programs alter anything worth mentioning. Neither does a reader.
As far as gaining useful information, a mod-maker or someone who is actually well-versed in reading and understanding this kind of stuff will have to explain it for you. Reading MPQs is not one of my hobbies.
tl988 said:
I can deal with it. This discussion interests me again.
I'll pick up with this discussion again tomorrow night. Tonight I'm getting together with my mates to play.
SquareRootOfBob
New member
I've never understood how people can actually try to legitimize the use of maphack because there are worse hacks out there. That's like saying that stealing is okay because people commit murders... >_>
And I'm surprised that this thread hasn't been closed yet.
And I'm surprised that this thread hasn't been closed yet.
Sein Schatten
New member
"You can look at the files on your computer all you want, Lord Gargoyle, that is not illegal."
okay, i am defeated. and viewing with a mpq extractor is allowed, too?
"Windows is third party and you use it to run the game"
no, windows is the needed os. a shell to run the programm. notepad is third party.
"And I'm surprised that this thread hasn't been closed yet."
why shoulf it be closed? because you dont like it?
okay, i am defeated.
and viewing with a mpq extractor is allowed, too?"Windows is third party and you use it to run the game"
no, windows is the needed os. a shell to run the programm. notepad is third party.
"And I'm surprised that this thread hasn't been closed yet."
why shoulf it be closed? because you dont like it?
Lord Chaos
New member
Hey, then Maphack isn't bad ether...all it does is read game information and display it on the screen...*grins*
Lord Chaos said:
Where does it say we're not allowed to read guides or tutorials for the game?
Since we're all playing ONLINE, EVERYONE has equal access to the guides.
Now, where does it say Maphack is allowed in the game? It DOESNT. In fact they've said numerous time ITS NOT ALLOWED.
Idiot
Lord Chaos
New member
Slayer193 said:
Wow nice namecalling...*shrugs*...they are not unfair if they're part of the game. You yourself said things are not unfair if everyone has access to them.
Okay you two dolts (<--not serious), I'm back for one more post this morning, and I'm coming to shoot your dogs and dump over your trash cans. 
Yes, and do you know why? An mpq extractor or whatever it is does nothing to alter the game code, it simply allows you to read it. Same with Notepad -- which is pretty much standard issue software that comes with Windows. So nice try, you are defeated. One down and one to go.
WRONG BUCKO! Maphack doesn't just read game code you silly goose, it alters it to change the way the items display.
Game code = Runes are colored white.
Maphack = Runes are given new colors.
Game code = You have to pick up a grey item to see # of sockets.
Maphack = The # of sockets is shown to you while still on the ground.
Now, if those features were being used on a Mod, it's perfectly legal. On BNet however, those are some fairly fundamental changes to the game code; thus they violate the EULA/ToS.
Now how about an MPQ reader thing:
Reader = Lets you read all sorts of compiled information about TCs, monster levels or whatever. The key word here is read -- not alter -- READ!
YOU HAVE BEEN PWNED, J00 N00B! :surprise:
Keep trying, I like this debate. Try it from a different angle though.
Though the discussion heats up sometimes, it has remained civil. There is no reason to lock it. Besides, no one has ever tried to argue that this entire site is a cheat-factory before. Quite the brazen statement I must say.
Lord Gargoyle said:okay, i am defeated.
Yes, and do you know why? An mpq extractor or whatever it is does nothing to alter the game code, it simply allows you to read it. Same with Notepad -- which is pretty much standard issue software that comes with Windows. So nice try, you are defeated. One down and one to go.
Lord Chaos said:
WRONG BUCKO! Maphack doesn't just read game code you silly goose, it alters it to change the way the items display.
Game code = Runes are colored white.
Maphack = Runes are given new colors.
Game code = You have to pick up a grey item to see # of sockets.
Maphack = The # of sockets is shown to you while still on the ground.
Now, if those features were being used on a Mod, it's perfectly legal. On BNet however, those are some fairly fundamental changes to the game code; thus they violate the EULA/ToS.
Now how about an MPQ reader thing:
Reader = Lets you read all sorts of compiled information about TCs, monster levels or whatever. The key word here is read -- not alter -- READ!
YOU HAVE BEEN PWNED, J00 N00B! :surprise:
Keep trying, I like this debate. Try it from a different angle though.
SquareRootOfBob said:
Though the discussion heats up sometimes, it has remained civil. There is no reason to lock it. Besides, no one has ever tried to argue that this entire site is a cheat-factory before. Quite the brazen statement I must say.
Lord Chaos
New member
Except no files are being altered by maphack in these instances. (but yes, it does alter the running code). And please just refer it as Blizzards rules they ban after...EULA is still irrelevant.
Lord Chaos said:
Yes, you are correct there. Sorry it sounded as though I was inferring differently. Maphack does change the running code and not the actual database files. That's why it makes it difficult for Blizzard to track. It still violates the EULA. Perhaps we should take a closer look at that much-discussed document. Maybe when I'm through playing tonight ...
Lord Chaos said:
Rephrase this line, it doesn't quite make sense to me. I'll get back to this in the morning.
I'm back!!! Warcraft III: Frozen Throne is fun too
I suppose that you can find the program that people used to read the mpq files then in the diablo II program? Or on the cd's? Or on battle.net?
I dont think you ever understood my previous posts...I've said that using mh was wrong..and that I DONT use it anymore. The reasons i used it was listed previously and you didnt read it. Besides..i'm not a big fan of 3rd party hacks that act directly on d2 client. I've always detested triggerhacks, drop hacks, runeduping..etc.
Testing to find information is an interesting issue. People have been testing the reams for a long time. To see how they can manipulate the realms. Granted that they use programs that may or may not watch the code of the game. They use the information they find to crash the realms and find exploits they can use for their own profits.
Now the people who "test" the realms in a non maglignant manner. Lets use tracking D clone as an example. This forum has hosted the information on this discovery though does not host the actually ip tracking. I would ask how the testers discovered their information. They would have to track sojs sold and the ip adresses of the servers they were on. Oh sure that the ip tracking seemed innocent enough...all you were doing was just getting the ip adress right? WELL..lets look at the events that followed. People who read this forum and other forums that tracked the server #'s. They then proceeded to try to log onto the servers that were hosting the soj selling games. That server being flooded with people on it started to become unstable. Battlenet in response (escpecially the first few days of this discovery) started to disconnect people from these servers. In essence we had an attack server(caused by the massive number of players trying to get onto the server) which was in many cases getting as bad as other previous attacks that the realms had gone through from other hackers using "3rd party hacks" Furthermore blzizard warned against tracking server #'s on their hosted forums.
Results-using netstat (just a simple command prompt)-still an outside dos program within windows and A 3rd PARTY PROGRAM which does not change code or add it...used in order to obtain knowledge that was NOT disclosed by blizzard for the personal gain of individuals. Bnet got pissed and disallowed this server tracking on their servers-hrmm...sounds like they think its wrong dont you? Well...the command prompt is just a program within windows and already installed...according to your arguement and so many of others..this perfectly legitimate..I think i've shown its not...And the fact that this forum provided information that blizzard and battlenet have shown a dissapproval for shows that we are "cheating" - all of us that read this.
Get off your self righteous arse and just face the facts
Daemonaz said:
I suppose that you can find the program that people used to read the mpq files then in the diablo II program? Or on the cd's? Or on battle.net?
I dont think you ever understood my previous posts...I've said that using mh was wrong..and that I DONT use it anymore. The reasons i used it was listed previously and you didnt read it. Besides..i'm not a big fan of 3rd party hacks that act directly on d2 client. I've always detested triggerhacks, drop hacks, runeduping..etc.
Testing to find information is an interesting issue. People have been testing the reams for a long time. To see how they can manipulate the realms. Granted that they use programs that may or may not watch the code of the game. They use the information they find to crash the realms and find exploits they can use for their own profits.
Now the people who "test" the realms in a non maglignant manner. Lets use tracking D clone as an example. This forum has hosted the information on this discovery though does not host the actually ip tracking. I would ask how the testers discovered their information. They would have to track sojs sold and the ip adresses of the servers they were on. Oh sure that the ip tracking seemed innocent enough...all you were doing was just getting the ip adress right? WELL..lets look at the events that followed. People who read this forum and other forums that tracked the server #'s. They then proceeded to try to log onto the servers that were hosting the soj selling games. That server being flooded with people on it started to become unstable. Battlenet in response (escpecially the first few days of this discovery) started to disconnect people from these servers. In essence we had an attack server(caused by the massive number of players trying to get onto the server) which was in many cases getting as bad as other previous attacks that the realms had gone through from other hackers using "3rd party hacks" Furthermore blzizard warned against tracking server #'s on their hosted forums.
Results-using netstat (just a simple command prompt)-still an outside dos program within windows and A 3rd PARTY PROGRAM which does not change code or add it...used in order to obtain knowledge that was NOT disclosed by blizzard for the personal gain of individuals. Bnet got pissed and disallowed this server tracking on their servers-hrmm...sounds like they think its wrong dont you? Well...the command prompt is just a program within windows and already installed...according to your arguement and so many of others..this perfectly legitimate..I think i've shown its not...And the fact that this forum provided information that blizzard and battlenet have shown a dissapproval for shows that we are "cheating" - all of us that read this.
Get off your self righteous arse and just face the facts
TFreshStyle
Banned
I dont think maphack hurts anybody, though you can be banned for using it. I dont use pickit because I hate when ppl do and ppl hate when you do
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