Justification for cheating?

[Daemonaz]

Hrmm you never got killed by an amazon shooting guided arrows at you then i take it in 1.09? I lost 2 characters 90+ in hc because of that trigger hack. And I woulda lost another 3 if it wasnt for the chicken feature on mh.
I wouldnt let that hack dictate in which games i play in or not...i shouldnt have to. Bnet is supposed to be hack free.

Oh does anyone remember the talk about mf on bosses when 1.10 first came out? The talk that was coming from blizzard was that they nerfed it. It was later found out that mf still worked on bosses. How was this found out? Code searchers. Without this information people would have assumed it was this way...but either by a mistake of bnet or purposely (who knows) it was left as was...so what happens? People go mf meph and others yet again. Also the bug associated with andariel and her drops being always the 1st quest drop (which is better in quality). This was a bug in the game that WAS NOT INTENDED. NO WHERE DID BNET OR AREAT SUMMIT POST THAT THIS WAS THE WAY IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE. THIS "STUDYING" LED TO AN EXPLOIT THAT WASNT!!!!!!!!! INTENDED. So tell me ... if you were told by the teacher to study for certain things...and told you not to study for other things...and later you found out he lied...so you studied for the parts you needed to .... this isnt cheating by finding out what the teacher didnt want you to know?

It wasn't found out by someone reading the code. It was VERIFIED by someone reading the code. Anyone with at least 2 brain cells could see that Mephisto still dropped as good as before, if not better.

You are as out of your mind as Lord Chaos. Both of you reason from some serious flawed logic. In fact you are just trying to justifiy the reason for cheating.

 

[Azonian]

Wrong. You again lack understanding of a key difference. Mpq files do not require decompilation, and therefore reading them does not violate the EULA. Changing actual game code does violate the EULA, and it's completely different from reading info that is in .mpq files.
The first dupe did not require altering the code but it did require causing large amounts of server-side lag, in effect, a DOS attack through Diablo. The second dupe, the larger one, required third party software called 'd2hackit' to work.

Cheating requires breaking a rule. The creators of this website did not break any rules.

I can't stress enough, you have no place arguing here until you have read the whole thread. All of your inane arguments have been addressed at least once before.

Interesting..the last time i clicked on the .mpq file it didnt do anything but ask for a program to open. Oh so its a rule that now you're saying. So finding out a bug in the game - hellforge quest back in 1.09 - and how to get it multiple times wasnt cheating? I mean it didnt break any eual rules? We've already discussed that cheating is not about only rules. You should follow you own advice and read the posts about how cheating isnt limited to just breaking rules. You knew it was wrong (not the games intent) and still did it. Just because a country might not have a law against harrassment - we know its wrong and we shouldnt do it.

And i will ask again how they found out what to attack with that dos attack and how? They read the code. This forum does host information that came from code readers. This information is made availible to people. Decompilation ... fine..a different word for looking...It doesnt matter how you decompile or read information ...you're still pulling information that the normal layman does not have access to. This information and ANY WAY that you get it is still cheating because the average user will never have the resources and KNOWLEDGE of how to do so. Calling me an idiot is i feel just an attempt to pull the focus off my legitimate arguements because yours are wrong

 

[Lord Chaos]

You don't have to repeat yourself again. You've done it already too many times. It almost seems your bumping this thread.

I wouldn't have to repeat myself if people didn't constantly make things up.

 

[Azonian]

It wasn't found out by someone reading the code. It was VERIFIED by someone reading the code. Anyone with at least 2 brain cells could see that Mephisto still dropped as good as before, if not better.

You are as out of your mind as Lord Chaos. Both of you reason from some serious flawed logic. In fact you are just trying to justifiy the reason for cheating.

Read my part about andariel

 

[Lord Chaos]

2 Reasons why Blizzard and other companies would never go after something like this.

1. They CAN'T...it is simply impossible to do anything about, and you wouldn't know who would be reading the information or not. They could shut down the site...but hey Paramount tried that once and look what a disaster that turned out to be.

2. They would be attacking two sides at the same time, effectively fighting a too vast majority of players...so the easiest to go for is the one they actually have even a remote chance of detecting and doing something about.

 

[Azonian]

2 Reasons why Blizzard and other companies would never go after something like this.

1. They CAN'T...it is simply impossible to do anything about, and you wouldn't know who would be reading the information or not. They could shut down the site...but hey Paramount tried that once and look what a disaster that turned out to be.

2. They would be attacking two sides at the same time, effectively fighting a too vast majority of players...so the easiest to go for is the one they actually have even a remote chance of detecting and doing something about.

Agreed. That doesnt excuse us self righteous people Not shutting this website down doesnt mean its not cheating. Correct me if thats your thought also?

 

[Lord Chaos]

I would just define as giving an unfair advantage....which is the whole point about why MH is bad, it gives an unfair advantage.

Labelling it is just a word.

 

[Usufruct]

Interesting..the last time i clicked on the .mpq file it didnt do anything but ask for a program to open. Oh so its a rule that now you're saying. So finding out a bug in the game - hellforge quest back in 1.09 - and how to get it multiple times wasnt cheating? I mean it didnt break any eual rules? We've already discussed that cheating is not about only rules. You should follow you own advice and read the posts about how cheating isnt limited to just breaking rules. You knew it was wrong (not the games intent) and still did it. Just because a country might not have a law against harrassment - we know its wrong and we shouldnt do it.

Sigh... I am pointing out the difference between reading the parts of the game code that determine monster level, treasure class, area level, etc. and changing the game code. Bugs exist in programming, not in data files which are essentially just glorified databases containing game information. Are you familliar with how people find bugs in programming? They run the program. It is entirely possible to find many many bugs by trying things in the program. Whether or not the bugs were found by decompiling core game files, I can't say and nor can you. But yes my definition of cheating was flawed, it's not all rules - it has to do with morals and other factors as well, such as duping in Diablo 1.

And i will ask again how they found out what to attack with that dos attack and how?

You don't understand what the first 1.10 dupe was. Multiple corpses and disconnects were used to cause server-side lag. This lag equated essentially to one person leaving the game with an item that another person had. It required no code reading.

This forum does host information that came from code readers. This information is made availible to people. Decompilation ... fine..a different word for looking...It doesnt matter how you decompile or read information...you're still pulling information that the normal layman does not have access to.

Decompilation is much more complicated than reading, or even decoding. It means to deconstruct a program - to reverse engineer - to find core game code. And any normal layman does have access to what is read in some of the files on purediablo.com

This information and ANY WAY that you get it is still cheating because the average user will never have the resources and KNOWLEDGE of how to do so. Calling me an idiot is i feel just an attempt to pull the focus off my legitimate arguements because yours are wrong

No, I am not drawing focus from your "legitimate" arguments. You are failing also to make the distinction between people who use third party programs and people who visit purediablo.com. There is a difference whether you choose to be ignorant of it or not.

 

[Frenzied Bovine]

Simple solution that would erase part of the need for maphack..

1. Allow characters to LOOK at other characters and see their equipment. I mean, you're supposed to be standing right next to them in game, why can't you open your eyes and see the specifics of their gear (but not their pack)?

2. Enable full map display for areas based on quest completion. ie, show the entire map - but not the monsters - for Durance 2 and 3 if Meph quest is done.

3. Allow users to define their own colors for item drop labels based on the item type and item level.

That's pretty much all I can think of that would come in really, really handy and make D2 so much more fun for me. As it is, I have to settle for Blizzard's vision, which is fine but somedays is decidedly un-fun.

In a way I can see what that guy is saying. There's some nice aspects to Maphack that wouldn't be too overpowering if they were just added into the game.

I strongly disagree with just about every other kind of hack, dupe etc out there though. And I happen to think the idea of no-trade Annihilus and Gheeds charms is just pure stupidity in it's most volatile form.

 

[Azonian]

Hrmm..well since this thread is only for fun..i talked with a good friend..he understands what i'm saying and talked to me about the exact same things that have been discussed on this thread. You want a distinction between people who visit d2.net and people who hack. Well..i've already stated that the average layman isnt capable of doing the reading/decompiling analyzing of code, mpq and such. So what does he do? Go find someplace that does this for him. Now as i already stated ... most people dont know how to use the programming/utilities that allow them to look at the info. Given these basic facts..We got people who also want that "unfair" advantage or just to over simplify...get an advantage. Some people will search the web for 3rd party programs that do it for them. Others search for forums with the people who HAVE the know how to read mpq files, read source code to confirm etc. Both of these people have sought the same thing- they want to be better then what they are in the game playing mechanic. One person uses a site to dl programs to do the work for them (these people have to know the code of the game in order to make effective programs) They get the program OR the information on how to exploit the game...another has found another site that the people did the work for him for reading the files and mechanics of the game and is confirmed by the people reading the code. This person is doing this for himself and thinks that he isnt hurting anyone...except he now has increased his character capabilities and is now able to more effiently mf and kill monsters...this effect isnt the same as the mh? We've already discussed what the mh does for people...what you've just done is find a different way to mh with the help of others who in the spirit of a communitity shared information that wasnt known, wasnt communicated from the "partent business" of the game. Oh sure you dont have a background program running in your background .. but hell who needs it now that i'm armed with this information that was obtained by a 3rd party program method and yes just testing -(usually confirmed by source code reading) that "everyone" has access to-uhh just like mh...

The way my friend put..is it the gun that kills people or the people that kill people? I'm saying its the gun and the people

 

[Wuhan_Clan]

We can spend the rest of our lives justify cheating as the thread is titled. The bottom line is that even if cheating is justified, cheating by its very definition is not allowed.

Of course everyone is trying to gain some kind of advantage or another. Whether the the advantage is fair or unfair, right or wrong is beyond the point since it is the means by which you obtain that advantage that matters. Blizzard bans people for using MH. They don't ban you for reading some mpq files or coming to this site.

We do not pay for battle.net. Blizzard pays for the server so Blizzard has the ultimate say on the law of battle.net gameplay.

And they didn't live happily ever after ...

THE END

 

[Lord Chaos]

Thats still a moot point, because Blizzard CAN'T ban people for that, even if they were paid a million dollars for every person they banned for it...they would have no way of knowing.

 

[Azonian]

hrmm is it me or is that turtle fellow trying to say i am justifying cheating? Well i was sorta with the whole chicken thing back in 1.09 but currently i'm just saying we all basically cheat to an extent. Never said anything to justify it (currently)..err not that I know of.

 

[Usufruct]

Again, and again, and again and again, you miss the point. Maphack, is against the rules, and gives players who use it an unfair advantage illigitimately. Reading strategy guides, and any information you could POSSIBLY find on this website is completely legitimate, and *EVERYBODY* has legitimate access to it, if they wanted.

Think of it as Scrabble.

Reading Scrabble Bonus Word Techniques is not cheating.

You're saying that using a word descrambler or anagram builder is the same as reading Scrabble strategy/tactics guides.

 

[Wuhan_Clan]

The explain where in the EULA or any other Blizzard released document that says that Maphack is allowed or that reading mpq files are not allowed? If you can provide thorough justification for either, then I'll be content.

 

[pliu]

I use MH at 1.09 for very simple reason. To check if the char I duel in public use ITH or super bugged items or not( such as bugged eyes). I stop using MH at 1.10 because the word from Blizzard and there suppose no hacked items anymore. MH is not that bad in D2 it is bad in W3 :drink:

 

[Lord Chaos]

that reading mpq files are not allowed?

A. Subject to the Grant of License herein above, you may not, in
whole or in part, copy, photocopy, reproduce, translate, reverse
engineer, derive source code, modify, disassemble, decompile,
create derivative works based on the Program, or remove any
proprietary notices or labels on the Program without the prior
consent, in writing, of the Licensor.

You cannot read an MPQ without disassembling it.

 

[Azonian]

Or translate..lol i think hes gonna say that they dont decode or anything like that..that somehow the mpq just suddenly transforms into words that we understand..after we double click on it...it'll discover the hidden program within the blizzards cd's that no one knows about. Cuz for me it keeps asking me to find a program to open it with...doesnt seem to know of any programs that actually reads it... >< Believe me, i've tried with what the "average" user has.

 

[Azonian]

Again, and again, and again and again, you miss the point. Maphack, is against the rules, and gives players who use it an unfair advantage illigitimately. Reading strategy guides, and any information you could POSSIBLY find on this website is completely legitimate, and *EVERYBODY* has legitimate access to it, if they wanted.

Think of it as Scrabble.

Reading Scrabble Bonus Word Techniques is not cheating.

You're saying that using a word descrambler or anagram builder is the same as reading Scrabble strategy/tactics guides.

LOL its against the rules to read it while you play the game fool. Thats part of the scrabble rules too. Besides we all know that there are forms of cheating that are not written. There are also ways of cheating without altering code to the game. This you know too as well...the only reason that maphacks arent allow is...as Lord chaos stated....its easier to detect and a more "solid" reason to be able to ban...If a rule isnt written down and a ban is threatened DOESNT MAKE IT OKAY

 

[Daemonaz]

I wouldn't have to repeat myself if people didn't constantly make things up.

It is YOU who is making things up, no one else.