Introduction and kwestion

[Merlin The Wizzard]

Introduction and kwestion

Yes, I'm brazen like that

First, let me introduce myself. I'm a long time Diablo player, prolly going on to 7 years now. I have played dozens of characters, most of those I have deleted at one point or another. I have LoD of course, and play with 1.11 No mods, no twinks, no donuts, no nothing. Just me, my computer, diablo II and a sixpack of coca cola

Now, If I could get a nickle for every HC barb I started in SP mode, I'd have enough dough to buy... well, err, a beat up dodge. But then again, it was only a nickle a game
No seriously, I must have started over 300 barbs, and almost all died at one point or another. I still have one alive (Act 1 nightmare, Sword mastery) but I so desperately want to get a Mace mastery barb into hell (and get IK gear (hehehe... don't see that happening even when I get there, but hey, a guy has to dream, doesn't he?))
I almost always die in Act 3 (sometimes in act 2 at duriel). I made it about 4 times past Diablo, but I got wasted by those blasted cowfaced minotaurs (I hate their frenzy!)

How do I handle my problem?
My basic strategy is as follows:

I like Find Item so much I usually spend 5 stat points (first lvl) in mana. It gives me a bit of playroom so I can fondle guts
Then I raise strength about 10 points, even out my dex with my vit, and then raise them pretty evenly. Basically my STREX:VIT are increased in a 4:3:3 ratio. I raise Dex because of the AR, and because I always have an alternate weaponset with a good Resistance and block shield.

As for my skills :
Warcries
Howl - Taunt - FP - 1
Shout - 1 (I'll raise Shout later)
Find Item - 3 or 4.
Battle Cry - 1
If I manage to get there, I'll pump Battle Orders for 3 or 4 points at least, and then raise shout as well.

Combat Masteries : Mace mastery usually around 3 or 4, the other non weapon skills all 1 (Sometimes Iron skin 2)

Combat Skills
Sometimes I also use the Double weapon subtree, but usually I dont. Bash - Stun - Leap - 1 Leap Attack - 1 or 2 Concentrate 3 or 4 eventually.
If I get there, I put at least 2 to 3 points in Berserk.

Act I I just traverse asap. I always select a fire bowmercenary, because I REALLY really like the find item skill (I know, it's lame, but it's like an addiction, so what can i do?)
For weapons I usually seek out a vicious sceptre, for max damage.
By the time I get to Andy, I'm usually lvl 16.
I usually do several Countess runs, at least until I have the runes for Malice together. I rarely ever find good uniques. I usually go for good rares. High def, Resistsance to lightning and/or fire, FHR, +to life and mana. I try to steer clear from cold damage, but if I get a good weapon with a cold damage on it, I will use it. The main stat I look for on my weapon (the most important item IMHO) is damage, although attack speed is nice as well.

Act II I try to finish around lvl 24. For that reason I usually do all of the Tombs. Also, I like to do a couple of Andariel runs and see if I get anything useful (rarely, but I once got a very nice rare Jawbone cap with a +3 to mace mastery and high light res amongst others)
Duriel I detest. As you have read, I sometimes die here. When I enter, I immediately cast a TP, and then engage him hand to hand with my weapon (usually I gambled a maul or got Malice in a maul). I keep drinking Reds to keep my health rising all the time. If I have double swing, I always use that skill.

Act III is the dealbreaker for me. I hardly ever die in the flayer jungle anymore ( i always switch to alternate weapon with a shield and a one handed weap). It's usually the undead dolls that do me in inside Mephisto's lair. The council etc. are little to no problem. Neither is Mephisto, if I manage to get to him

This is a very broad general outline of how I usually play my barb. Over the course of time (And CERTAINLY after acquiring 1,10 ) I learned its prolly best not to run into unexplored rooms with my HC char. Even more recently, I discovered (Hey, I'm not saying I'm the brightest star on the filament of barbarian heaven) of Taunt, and I use it quite often.

So, is this enough info on my gameplay? Or at least, enough to tell me what I'm doing wrong? Or am I just aiming too high?

Thanks for all the help in advance, and ehm...
Hello
Willem

 

[Colorless Green]

First things first: Welcome! Check out the stickies at the top of the forum, there's huge amounts of useful information there.

Regarding your barb problems: First, do you know about the "/players X" command? Open up the chat window (enter IIRC, I haven't consciously thought about it in so long that I don't actually remember what it is that my fingers hit) and type in "/players 8" (without quotes). This will simulate 8 players (unpartied) in the game, which will give increased exp, drops, and monster health. Set it back down to p1 for bosses, but go p8 while just regularly questing. I bring this up because I usually hit 24-25 by the end of A2 without doing any rerunning whatsoever, and running past basically anything I can get away with. Questing at p8 for normal/NM tends to keep your level at what seems to me to be the optimum spot in relation to monster level.

General playing-untwinked advice:
-Gamble as much as possible. My favorite gambling targets are boots, belt, and gloves, but really, just go for whatever slot you need upgraded most.

-If you can afford it, get some MF early on in your career. Chipped topazes into armor/helm work, and MF can spawn on magic/rare items at very low levels. In that you're playing HC, you probably want to balance this with some extra +life from rubies or something.

-Malice is nifty, but I tend to get more mileage out of Steel and Strength for low-level weapon runewords. Also, try to pick up Stealth, Rhyme, and/or Nadir when possible. Stealth and Rhyme are just spiffy in general, and Nadir has Cloak of Shadows charges that can be extremely handy.

-When you manage to make it that far, you might try rerunning mephisto a few times in an attempt to get Sigon's boots, belt, and gloves. They're all easy to find and, when combined, provide excellent low level melee bonuses.

-It looks like you favor two-handed weapons. If you're having as much survivability problems as you seem to be, start using a shield. They are extremely useful defensively (yay block), and are a spectacular source of resists.

-Mercs: Fire rogues are great for A1, but be sure to switch to an A2 merc as soon as you kill Andy. My recommendation for normal would be the defensive merc, which provides a defiance aura, giving you better defense and a good tank. When you solve your survivability problems, you could try offensive which gives blessed aim (better AR), or when you survive to A2NM, switch to offensive (might) or defensive (holy freeze).

-Regarding late normal: by this point, try to have max resists, or at least 50+ to each one. A shield with pdiamonds is a good way to do this. As far as frenzytaur swarms go, just be quick with howl when they get close, try to stay behind your merc, get a good block rate, and get as much life as you can come up with.

-About skills in general: Pretty much every barb in the history of ever should have maxed battle orders. Every non-weapon skill in the mastery tree should get a minimum of one point, and personally I don't recommend raising them beyond that one point until very late game, if ever. When playing untwinked, I find it handy to put one point in sword, mace, and axe masteries (only one point), because those are the three weapon types where it's easiest to get a useful weapon untwinked, and the versatility of having three options at my disposal far outweighs the two lost skill points. As for main killing skill, with few exceptions, what you want to do is to pick your route at the beginning, then focus on maxing that killing skill as soon as possible. Leave everything else (besides BO) at 1 until you manage this.


What I'd recommend for you right now is to look at the barb guides in the stickies at the top of the page, or maybe some of the guides in the barb forum (but they tend to be bnet-centric and say you will absolutely never get anywhere without eBotD and other silly claims). Pick out one particular type of build you're interested in, and try it quite a few times in a row. Every build plays differently, and if you switch it up every time you die without even clearing normal, it'll be harder to learn from your mistakes. If you choose to do this, be sure to let us know what build you've picked so we can give more specific advice.

Good luck!
-CG

 

[CoolDarkDragon]

Get a good merc to tank for you against the dolls, they aren't affected by their little boom, and I'd say if you really need the attack rating, go with the angelic set ammy and 2xrings, may cut you skill levels some, but getting a crapload of ar easily is fun, (each ring gives my barb about 5k ar), just enough dex if your going for max block, later on energy isn't much of a problem. also if you have any problems with large groups, a little singer might help ya out, few points in war cry will stun em for a few seconds,.. and they wont be able to do anything (though this does tend to kill mana a lot) and since you're sp, you cant get an insight runeword. but just hope you try out some of these ideas, and best of luck to ya. =D

 

[Yaotzin]

I'm not much of a barb player, but I would think no block + no vit = death. Either go base dex (and ravenfrosts/angelics/whatever for ar), or go shield with enough dex only for 75% (no less either!)

Oh and you can use the ladder runewords with the RWM, though insight probably wouldn't help much as barb's base mana is so pathetic.

 

[CoolDarkDragon]

though insight probably wouldn't help much as barb's base mana is so pathetic.

yeah but i figured after a few points in battle orders you can get a couple hundred mana to work with then, and it's a pretty decent dmg wep for mercs since infinity=useless for barbs (and way too expensive for nl play)

passion'd be interesting for a merc... if they could actually make use of the zeal on it.

 

[Merlin The Wizzard]

Thanks for the quick answers guys :
Yaotzin - That's what I want BO for... Besides, in the long term plan I would seriously start raising vit say around 40 or so... problem is, I never get there As for special items, I hardly ever find uniques (SP untwinked...). I think I've found only two pair of Ravenfrosts in my entire Diablo career (both with my lvl 88 sorc). Same goes for CoolDarkdragon. Great advice, but getting specific unique/set items is not really an option in HC untwinked SP... at least not for me. I just use what I get (I must say I got surprisingly good usage out of Stoutnail once though)

Colorless Green - Wow. Thanks! Great tips, especially that first one! I had no idea I could fiddle with the player number in SP! Neat!
I will also try the Act II merc then. My reasoning behind act I merc is that if I use a Melee char, I like a Non melee merc and vice versa.
As far as Malice vs. Strnegth and Steel goes, well, When I find mauls with sockets they almost always have 3 sockets. If I find a two socket one, I'll make steel
Question... are the rune drops better/higher with 8 player? Because two of the words you suggest, Rhyme and Strength, use runes I haven't seen drop in SP HC normal so far... (Amn and Shael)
I'll go BO
But your suggestion completely ignores the Warcries Skill tree (Until BO)... Is that on purpose? Howl, Taunt ans Shout are nice, right?

Also, how useful is Grim Ward? Does any1 use it?
But thanks for all the advice you all!
it's much appreciated!:grin:
Willem

 

[Colorless Green]

Some more advice/replies:

(1) I understand using a non-melee merc with a melee char, but there's two problems with this in realistic play: first, the act2 merc's are vastly, vastly overpowered compared to A1/3 mercs (still OP compared to A5 mercs, too, but less so), and second, non-melee stuff can't tank for you and therefore can't do anything at all to stop you from dying.

(2) I recommend forgetting about mauls for the moment. You can't use a shield and a maul at the same time, and right now, your problem is survivability. I know mauls have big fancy damage, but they're also slow, so you can do pretty well over the same period of time using a faster, lower-damage weapon. But, really, the real reason is so you can use a shield. Survivability FTW.

(3) Regarding number of sockets, I believe there's an equal chance of a socketed item in normal of having 1, 2, or 3 sockets (assuming it can get 3 sockets). So, that's just luck. Plus, if you use something that you can shop in act 2 where shops sell socketed items (can't currently remember what weapon types spawn in A2, but it's not like steel is something that's hard to throw away when you outgrow it), you can just reset the shopkeeper repeatedly by leaving town/coming back until you get what you want.

(4) Drops at higher player settings: At higher player settings, the chance of a monster dropping nothing shrinks dramatically. Indirectly, this means more runes. The exception to this is the countess, who has some bizarre mechanics to her drop. She will drop the most runes on P1 instead of P8, because when she rolls a no-drop in the regular item generation portion of things, it can be replaced by a special countess-only rune drop.
Short version: P8 is better for runes everywhere except the countess, where P1 is best.

(5) Shael/Amn: These aren't too hard to get in late (A5ish) norm and early NM, plus the NM countess will readily drop both of them. Basically, don't worry about them through normal (but by all means celebrate if one of the runes drops there, because they can), but by the time you're in NM, you might want to consider stopping by the countess again. Just remember to set it back to P1.

(6) Warcries: Howl, taunt, and shout are more than nice, they're (IMO) vital. However, howl and shout are both pre-requisites for BO, and you'd already said you use taunt. I very strongly recommend one point in each of them as soon as they're available. Howl/taunt should be left at 1 point forever (extra points only slightly boost the flee distance for howl and the -def/dmg for taunt, but neither skill is useful for it's numbers rather than it's effect on the AI). Shout is a good candidate to max eventually, but definitely do not put more than the first point in until you have BO, a weapon mastery, and your main killing skill (plus any synergies, if applicable) maxed. In other words, you shouldn't start pumping it until somewhere around level 70. We can deal with endgame strategy when you get there.

(7) Grim ward: IMO, purely a novelty thing. Isn't worth the skill point unless the entire point of your char is being able to say "hey, look, I used grim ward!"


-CG

edit: addendum to the drops-at-higher-players-settings section: Just to be clear and complete, unique/champion monsters (by unique i mean bosspacks of regular monsters that drop 4 potions and 1-2 items, not act bosses, the countess, or anything else that has it's own set of drops) are not affected in any way by the players setting, so you will not get any more runes or items *from them* by running them at higher levels. You will, however, get more out of their minions and whatever other monsters are in the way. This only matters if you decide to sit down and run the same target repeatedly (say, for example, hell pindle when you get there), since your kill speed would suffer without any real gain in items. For questing and whatnot, P8 = many more items and runes.

 

[yiuman]

I think being on players 8 most of the time will help greatly (being a higher level than the monsters around you makes a big difference). I also second getting an act 2 one, you'll find life much easier.

With a HC character, raise vit lots. As soon as you can. Basically put enough in str/dex for your gear (more dex if you go max block) and everything else in vit. Don't put any in Energy, I know you like the mana for find item, but seriously, just buy the blue pots.

The runes will come, as will the items with the right number of sockets. Just be patient.

Rune drops are higher in /players 8, but I think Amn and Shael can't drop until Act 4 or so (could be wrong here though).

With my HC barbs I max my skills in this order, BO, whichever combat skill I'm using (most people use frenzy, concentrate or whirlwind), then synergies, then whichever weapon mastery I'm going for (if you don't know which one you will be useing you can leave this till you find a great weapon or like someone said earlier, just put one point in the mastery that you are currently using). Each non weapon mastery gets one point only. Each war cry (apart from BO which gets 20 and grim ward which gets 0) gets one point only. If I have any spare skill points left at the end they go in shout.

Always try and keep BO/BC and to a lesser extent shout up and running.

The warcries are nice, but one point (unless its BO or a synergy) is usually enough for me. Battle Cry makes life much easier and stacks nicely with the stun from War Cry, howl and taunt can be great crowd control skills too.

Some people like grim ward, i've never got on with it myself. But go with what suits your play style.

Don't forget crafting. Even a crap Blood Axe craft has a guaranteed 35-60%ED and 1-4% lifesteal and you could also get some nifty mods on it. Likewise the savage polearm recipy can make a nifty merc weapon (or indeed for you).

Lastly, an untwinked HC melee character is always going to be hard as you are much more reliant on gear than a caster character.

 

[salvo]

Take it slow, take it safe. Have a distance, taunt, lure back, war cry, smacks, rinse and repeat. I like to rely on Crushing Blow for damage because find a weapon with boatload of damage is hard for untwinked play. Take a look at the SPF chars guide, you might find the vitabarb build suits you or you might modify it a bit to your taste.

welcome to SPF

 

[yiuman]

I tried to make this point in my earlier post but I was really tired and not sure it came across so well.

The key to making a success of most characters in this game is focus. By which I mean that you need a plan when you start out. Reading your post, you seem to put a few points here, a few points there with no real plan in mind. I'd advise that you do things in the following order

1) Pick which combat skill you will be using (I'd recommend Frenzy, Conc, Beserk or Whirlwind).
2) Max BO and that combat skill with BO being the priority, getting one point in all non-weapon masteries and other warcries and one point in Beserk for PIs and areas where there are OKs. Don't be tempted to put points in things that won't help you later on. Save them so you can work on your combat skill and BO at the same time.
3) Work on synergies and weapon mastery.
4) If you have any points left over, put them in shout.

With regards to stat points, as much str/dex as you need for your equipment/blocking (if you go block) and the rest in vit. No points in energy. Ever.