Hydra or not to hydra???

Gahzban

New member
Hydra or not to hydra???

I was looking through the forum and didnt find anything interesting about this skill. Whats wrong with this skill with 1.11 patch? and does it is affected with fire mastery?

Here is my plan...

Blizzard max
Static Field 10+
Teleport 1
Hydra max
Fire Mastery ???
Rest in cold synergy

Any info will be very well appreciated thanx...

Gahz
 
Interesting, I'd go Frozen Orb (max), Cold mastery (-150 total), rest into hydra, fire mastery, static is ok with 1pt + skills, teleport, warmth...
 
Interesting, I'd go Frozen Orb (max), Cold mastery (-150 total), rest into hydra, fire mastery, static is ok with 1pt + skills, teleport, warmth...

Well I didnt mention it earlier but its for a naked sorc... so no +skills (thats why I said 10+ static)

And then I chose Blizzard because of Ice Blast that can kill things before I can get those Killer skills



 
I say dare to be different. I think most people don't use it because there are two synergy skills, plus the mastery to worry about. In order to do enough damage to really rock I think you'd have to put all your skill points in fire skills, which is dangerous if you're looking to complete the whole game. Then you throw on the 2 second casting timer and realize you can only have 5 of them at one time.

Edit: I bet it would be really powerful against act bosses, especially Andariel, though.
 
I put hydra on my tri-elementalist; I think they're pretty. Now obviously being a tri she is a bit short on other fire skills but I was disappointed. I certainly would like to make a fire sorc and see how much difference that makes.
 
If your going naked you should go for skills which are powerful enough without a heavy investment in synergies.

In the Cold tree you can go for Frozen orb. With 20 points in it and a few points in Cold Mastery it's a killer through all the game.

For the Fire tree you can go for Fire Wall. With 20 points in there and points in Fire mastery, this skill kills FAST. The problem can be aiming and keep monsters in line, but nothing some practice cannot solve.

With FO/FW you will have some spare points to invest as you like. Since you're going naked you can invest in Warmth (you are going to need it without equipment) and static field. Also you can invest in teleport, since without items your only defense will be distance from the enemies and teleport can be very mana intensive and that can be solved with some points in the skill.

Also, Fire Wall comes soon enough for the earlier parts of the game. And you can use blaze and inferno in the meanwhile you get Fire Wall. And at clvl 30 comes Frozen Orb and with it, total ownage all through hell :evil:
 
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I like to play unconventionnal build and I was wondering what skill I should try till I see that "never used" hydra skill (not even good info about that one in the forums)
 
The problem with hydra is that 2 second delay, preventing you from spamming hydra. It just takes some skill to use, but still it's a nice skill to use, it will just take time to the hydra to kill the enemies if there are too many since their shots will be aimed at different enemies.

If you go for Blizzard and Hydra remember that they come late in their skill trees and since you're going naked you could have problems in the early acts, especially with Duriel.
 
Bah, I wrote a long reply, but then I accidently clicked "back" and all was lost :P

Anyway, the post summed up in a few tips.
1 pt in static early on. Static can lower all monster including act bosses' hp to next to nothing in normal.

By eating multiple thawing potions at once, their duration will stack! So usually when im gonna face duri with a weak char, I eat like 10 thawing pots and I also give 10 to my merc, and voila we are both cold resistant for long enough to beat duri to a pulp. The same can be done vs andariel with antidotes, very helpfull.

By the time you reach duriel if you play on /p 8, you will be at least 24 if you havent skipped most monsters. That means you have at least 1 pt blizzard or hydra (I reccomend blizzard first, hydra maybe more as a backup)
Although, I would recomend orb over blizzard for untwinked hybrids, blizz costs so many points.

You will probably have big troubles reaching level 24 with a NAKED sorceress. If you are able to beat blood raven or reach level 8, you ger a merc, that could always kill for you, but I am not sure if your "naked" idea allows merc gear. If not I will seriously doubt that you will make it to duriel any time soon, killing /p8 monsters with only prequist skills aren't very fun and takes a long time, especially with the crappy mana you will have.

Good luck and lmk if I forgot something important :grin:


Ps, I think hydra looks cool, but I never dared to try it, maybe if it had no timer and a little higher damage output :P
 
Im already lvl 13 and yes im allowed to equipped merc according to the naked tourney rules and yes I intend to do P8 full clear except for act bosses who will be taken at P3 so Dury wont be a problem according to static and blizz...

I just didnt started the fire three... thats why I asked question... about Hydra.

Thanx alot for your constructive reply... Im still undecided taught...

Gahz
 
I wouldn't use hydra with +20 skills. I agree with arreat: FIREWALL rocks. My sorc uses tals set and has I think +10 to fire and it kills very well on p8 (7800 dmg/ -15% res) so I would think it could handle hell on low players fairly well. Also since firewall only takes 40 points to max, and does very well for those 40 points, you can add extra to static/CM/icebolt without sacrificing your other tree. My sorc is fw/orb and seems very balanced damaged wise, whereas my blizzard/nova sorc could use a few light charms.

A p8 clear on hell is 'possible' I guess, but you'll need a good merc for firewall (I use defiance) or some nice moves (fw, run along it, repeat.) whereas with hydra you could just cast and run around in circles (but take 5x longer to kill).

Sorry for the long post, best of luck.

-edit- also firewall is gotten at lvl 18 (act1) and is useful. And if you're not going to max a synergy before 30 hydra probably won't do squat.
 
I actually built sorceress around hydra skill, hoping it would provide some challenge. Sadly, that wasn't the case and my sorceress went all the way to guardianship without any difficulties :sad2:(http://www.purediablo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=515048 - link to thread). Hydra is a really useful skill, its really safe. You can scout with it, also you can get troublesome monster stuck on some corner and kill him easily.
 
Firewall at point blank range, then teleport to one end of it. Works better than running. Or you can work your angles and ranges, but that takes practice and is hard to describe.
 
I've been wanting to make a hydra sorc for a while. Hydra can do a descent job when synergized. Obviously we're not looking for tons of power here.

My biggest suggestion for you is go with Frozen Orb instead of Blizzard. Both Blizzard and Hydra rely heavily on synergies. Frozen Orb does not. You'll have two seriously underpowered skills (and Hydra is already underpowered), and I think that might get frustrating.

My suggest is max Frozen Orb and put 1 in CM. Put the rest into the fire tree. The FO will deal well enough with all non cold immunes (a little slow, but it will get the job done), and the Hydra will take care of all cold immunes (a little slow, but it will get the job done).

Thats the way the naked tournament is though. Slow and easy does it!

I actually plan on making that build some time, but not naked.

Good luck! :thumbsup:
 
I've tried Hydra and both liked it and disliked it. It actually gives good damage output, but over time. Each hydra lasts 10 sec and puts out lots of bolts, but each bolt does only a little dmg. It won't kill quickly, but it will kill steadily. It is also useful for scouting and can pick off enemies before they ever have a chance to hurt you.
I actually have a hydra sorc in the works right now, and she will use FO as a backup. Unsynergized it is a much better bet than Blizzard (just like everyone else already said) She is still low level right now, and has put a few pts into Firebolt. Once she gets to lvl 12 she will put pts into Fireball and that will be the skill of choice until lvl 30, when FO becomes available. She will max FO before getting hydra because FO can get you through NM and it is a good skill even at low lvls, where hydra doesn't shine untill it reaches higher level with better synergies. Of course 1 pt wonders of static, telekinesis and teleport. It goes without sayin gthat you should plan your skill points carefully so you can place pts appropriately at each lvl. I'm thinking the final distribution of skill points will be something like: 20 FO, 5 CM, 10 Fb, 20FB, 20 Hydra 10 FM. A skill planner for max dmg out of hydra might be a good idea. :idea:

good luck
 
Nice thing about hydra is that you can use it safely. It's a slow game... but you can get through it with orb and hydra, and never get close enough to an enemy to ever get hit. If you learn to dodge missles, you might never even take damage.
 
Having messed around with a skill calculator, I can say that Hydra can in fact put out good numbers. I tried a pure fire sorceress, with 20 Fire bolt, 20 Fire ball, 20 Hydra, and 20 Fire mastery. With some skills, each bolt the hydra spits out does around 1k - 1.2k, which is rather nice, and those synergies give yourself one killer fireball. For a hybrid, I went 20 hydra, 20 fire mastery, 20 fireball, 20 frozen orb, and the remaining points into cold mastery. With 5 hydras out, each spitting out salvos of three bolts, each doing 1k or so each, you do some good damage. You have frozen orb as a fire-immune backup skill, and a merc of your choice, doing damage too. All in all, it seems very effective.

Have fun! I know I did.
 
This should answer most of your questions.

My opinion is that a naked sorceress with not enough skill points in Hydra and it's synergies will not complete hell difficulty. I found you needed 50 skill points minimum in hydra, fire mastery and a synergy including good skill boosting equipment, +8 or more to fire skills.

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A guide to the Hydra using Sorceress.
Written for Diablo II/LOD V1.10
By Asmodeous.

Introduction.


Hydra. For a level 30 Spell, Hydra has always come last in the "mostest" damage spell contest amongst the Sorceress's many spells. And for this reason, few players will choose this spell in v1.10. This, I can't understand why. Is it just too hard to create, to play, Or maybe people don't truly understand this spells potential? I think, Its time for a guide to help blow all the myths about this spell away, and replace them with Hot, firey Facts. Sit back, and enjoy this guide. At the end of it, Decide if the Hydress is for you. Believe me, after I wrote it, I said yes to that very question.

How does Hydra work?

Hydra, is a three headed firey dragon, that appears from the ground where you cast it.
from the three heads, it fires bolts of fire at any monster or target with in range.

Duration 10 seconds.
Active Duration 8 seconds.
Casting Delay 2 seconds.
Maximum number of fire bolts fired 24 in total, 8 from each head.
Total rate of Fire 3 fire bolts per second.
Range Approximately 9 yards (3/4 of screen at 800 x 600 res)

Basically, when you cast a Hydra, it takes one second to animate and begin working. It then begins firing at any available targets. It then will fire at any targets for 8 seconds, before taking one second to disappear. Combined with the casting delay, this means that you can have up to 5 Hydra’s on screen at any one time, but only 4 of them will be active at any one time.

The Hydra will fire up to a total of 24 bolts of fire, each bolt does fire damage at the listed damage for the spells level. As all fire spells do, the damage is increased with Fire mastery. Hydra also has two Synergy spells to further increase its damage, but more of these later.
The spell will not fire unless is has a target, so its possible to cast the spell, and have it fire less than 24 bolts, this is a maximum that is only fired if the spell does not run out of targets.

Damage.

I highly recommend that the spell be used with Fire mastery and if you plan to utilize this spell and at least 10 skill points in any one synergy. You will need to spend a total of 20 points both on Hydra and Fire mastery in order for the spell to be useful though out the game. So, im going to assume that this is what you will do when using this spell. Its pretty much useless any other way. The Initial Damage figures include 1 point in Fire Bolt and Fire Ball as these are Pre requisites.
In the Brackets, We have the damage figures for the synergy skills, Fire Bolt and Fire Ball. Both grant a damage bonus of a lousy 3%, so you can mix these any way you feel fit. The number represents the total amount of either synergy skill.

Damage for Hydra/Fire mastery c/w 1 Point Fire Bolt & Fire Ball.

Level 20 = 361 - 427. (15 = 493 - 585 / 20 = 624 - 711 / 25 = 596 - 706 / 30 = 647 - 767)
Level 25 = 562 - 653. (15 = 769 - 894 / 20 = 848 - 986 / 25 = 912 - 1060 / 30 = 1007 - 1172)
Level 30 = 827 - 947. (15 = 1132 - 1296 / 20 = 1249 - 1430 / 25 = 1366 - 1564 / 30 = 1483 / 1698)
Level 32 = 954 - 1086. (15 = 1305 - 1486 / 20 = 1440 - 1640 / 25 = 1575 - 1794 / 30 = 1710 - 1948)
Level 34 = 1088 - 1234. (15 = 1489 - 1688 / 20 = 1643 - 1862 / 25 = 1797 - 2037 / 30 = 1951 - 2212)
Level 35 = 1158 - 1310. (15 = 1584 - 1791 / 20 = 1748 - 1978 / 25 = 1912 - 2163 / 30 = 2076 - 2349)
Level 36 = 1230 - 1389. (15 = 1682 - 1900 / 20 = 1856 - 2096 / 25 = 2031 - 2293 / 30 = 2205 - 2490)
Level 37 = 1303 - 1469. (15 = 1783 - 2010 / 20 = 1968 - 2218 / 25 = 2152 - 2426 / 30 = 2337 - 2634)
Level 38 = 1379 - 1552. (15 = 1886 - 2123 / 20 = 2081 - 2343 / 25 = 2277 - 2563 / 30 = 2472 - 2782)

And if you Manage to spend 80 skill points on Hydra, Fire Mastery and both synergies?

Level 38 = 1379 - 1552. (40 = 2862 - 3222)

As you can see, Hydra really needs those Synergy Skills. And, It needs those Items that Boost your Skill levels. 18 to Fire skills is a very hard ask but it is possible.

Damage per second.

Simple maths. 24 fire bolts over 8 seconds is 3 bolts per second. At level 35 with 30 synergy skills points this is about 6,637 points of fire damage per second. When compared to spells such as Firewall and Meteor the damage seems very low. But keep in mind how this spell works. You can have up to four Hydra's working. It also actively targets where as Firewall and Meteor are dumb, area effect spells that work only when a monster runs/walks or hopefully stands in these spells.
If a monster runs through a 7,000 point firewall, only spending ¼ of a second actually in the firewall, that’s not a great deal of damage. Like most spells available to the Sorceress, there will always be times when one spell is more effective than another, and Hydra is no different. We will look at some strategies useful for Hydra later on, and see how versatile this spell can be.

The Fifth Hydra.

You can have five Hydra's on screen, But only four of them will be active. Can you have a Fifth active Hydra? Well, Yes. Its called Fire Ball. You've spent the skill points on the skill as well as Fire Mastery. With poorly selected synergies for Fire Ball, the damage isn't great, about the same as Hydra's actually. Equip some fast cast Items, hot key the skill and spam while waiting for those casting timers. You are the Fifth Hydra.

The Second Element.

Ok, You have spend the skill points in buying and building Hydra, Fire Mastery and 20 points on Fireball as a nice synergy/Fifth Hydra. That's just cost you 63 skill points. Assuming a level 85 Sorceress in the heavily XP nerfed V1.10, you have 33 skill points left. Not a lot is it?
For this reason, You really only have one choice of Elements for your Second. And only three viable choices of spells for those few skill points left over.
But first, Lets have a look at a couple of other must have choices we need.

Static Field. No Sorceress can do with out her Static Field. Or can she? Consider even this single point expenditure. Why? Act Two Mercenary, Pole arm weapon, Three sockets, Shael, Um and Tir Runes for the Cresent Moon rune word. Consider very carefully.

Warmth. One pointer. Our huge boosts from items will make up for the short fall of any mana regeneration we need.

Teleport.No skill points should be spent here. Teleport needs two skill points to aquire and this skill is better to get another way. Three socket armor with the runes Jah, Ith and Ber.
This is the Enigma rune work which grants +1 to teleport as well as +2 to skills and many other useful attributes. Its going to be tough levelling with out Teleport untill you can equip the Enigma Rune Word, so you might buckle and spend the two skill points. Its your choice. If you really want the meanest Hydress around, you will make the sacrifice. Hey, other classes make do with out Teleporting. Some use item charges and so can you.

Ok, so assuming you want a skill point in Static field, we have 32 skill points left to spend for a final character level of 85. Here is how we spend these.

Frozen Orb.No surprise this one. Needs 26 skill points for the typical level 20 forb/1 Cold Mastery. 6 points left to use either to boost Cold Mastery, Hydra synergy, or perhaps a bit of both. It is a good partner spell for Hydra, except that it too is timered.

Blizzard. Now this could be a better choice. 25 skill points, 7 to spare, but the reason to choose this skill over the much loved Forb is the way this spell works. Its a Blizzard. A big area full of chilling, Slowing cold damage. Park a couple of Hydra's amongst all those poor, slowed monsters and watch the body count grow.

Glacial Spike. 23 skill points, 10 to spare. Not a great choice because its a real mana chewing spammer. You dont really have the mana nor the regeneration to really support this, well, you do. Just don't use it all the time. Its great here and there. Spike a monster and freeze it. Park a firey three headed buddy next door. Can it get any easier?

Skill Points for Hydra.

The usual just enough Strength for Items applies here. Consider building your Dexterity up to 75% shield blocking levels. It's not that you really need it given the range of Hydra. You can keep out of the action quite well. But, for the same reason, you dont need a huge amount of Vitality. The spells you will probably be using are mostly Timered so you wont need a huge amount of Mana either. for these reasons, Dexterity for Shield blocking is a good idea. Consider Base dexterity if you want to use a Staff.

Formula for working out blocking rates.

Required Dexterity = 15 + (required block %) * (level x2)/(listed shield block).

For Example, level 70 Sorceress with an upgraded Visceratuant Shield.

Required Dexterity = 15 + (required block %) * 140/.

Equipping for Hydra.

As you can see from the Damage tables, this spell loves levels. Just compare the damage between level 32 to level 38. If you plan to use this spell, your main item requirement is items that add to the Fire tree Skills as well as items that add to Skill levels in general.
I consider a level of 32 in total to be the absolute minimum, and the spell begins to get very nasty at level 36+.
Apart from that, there is little else that the spell requires. Its cheap to cast mana wise and is timed, so no special amount of mana or regeneration is required. Pretty much any sorceress will be able to cast hydra continuously.
Some fast cast is a good idea for the "Fifth Hydra" Fire Ball spamming and this set up provides this as well.

Suggested Set Up.

Heart of the Oak Rune Word (Flail), Echuta's Temper or Mang Song's Lesson.
Enigma Rune Word (Archon Plate) or Ormus robes.
Upgraded Visceratuant Shield (heater).
Harlequin Crest.
Mara’s Kaliedascope or Tal Rasha’s Adjudication or Rare Amulet.
Mage Fist.
Stone of Jordan. (1 or 2)
Arachnid Mesh Belt.
Silk Weaves or Boots of Your Choice.

This set up will give you 13 -15 to fire skills assuming one Stone Of Jordan. You should be able to gain another 3-5 to fire skills from various skill charms in the back pack which is going to make a rather nasty pet Hydra. You can increase your Hydra damage even further with a good Echuta's Temper. with an extra 20% fire damage please. Or, grab a Mang Song's Lesson. The negative to monsters fire resistances works much the same way, in that increases the amount of damage monsters will take from your Elemental attacks.

Hydra Strategies.

Here are a few techniques to get the most of your Hydra spells!

1). Hydra in a Box. I love this trick. Used in dungeons with rooms such as the Jail in act 1, or the tombs of Radament in act 2. Teleport into a closed room. Cast a Hydra. If there isn’t too many monsters in the room, you might want to stick around to cast another, otherwise, simply teleport out of the room, leaving any monsters, to play with a 3 headed firey Hydra. I’m sure they will appreciate it!
2). Hydra scout. If your running through open fields, such as the cow farm, cast a Hydra at max range in the direction you are going. If the Hydra begins firing, you know you have monsters ahead. By the time you arrive close to the first Hydra, your ready to create a friend for it. In another 4 seconds, you have 4 Hydra’s blasting away at the monsters and odds are, few of them you will ever get to meet you in person.
3). Corners. Now, this is a good reason for this spell alone. Got a bunch of monsters
just around the next corner? Yeah, simple isn’t it? Cast your hydra in the corner and let the first thing the monsters see of you, is your pet three headed friend.
4). Casting thru walls. If you know that there are monsters on the other side of the wall or door, then cast a Hydra on the wall or door. Usually, the hydra will be split by the wall, with 1 or 2 heads appearing on the other side. Continue casting Hydra’s to your hearts content. This might be a game bug, It might not. matters not. Reap this quirk for all its worth.
5). Hydra Path. On the run from a particularly nasty beastie? Well, as you run away from the monster, assuming it will follow you, simply cast Hydra’s ahead of you.
By the time the Hydra activates, the monster is in range and runs head on into its bolts.
6).Ring Around the Hydra. Simply run circles around an area, casting Hydra’s where ever you please. As the monsters follow you, the Hydra’s will spit fire at their sorry butts as they try to catch you.
7). LEB Toast. Ouch! Just encountered a LEB? Well, let the range of Hydra do the dirty work. Beat a retreat until the LEB is of screen and cast Hydra’s at range in its direction. By the time the lightning bolts reach you, they will be so far apart, it will be child’s play for you to avoid.

When Hydra is not so hot.

1).
Very fast monsters. For example, Stygian dolls. The bolts from Hydra are fairly slow, and are fired at the location the beastie is at the time. Odds are, the beastie won’t be there by the time the bolt arrives. even head on, when these dolls “retreat”, the little buggers are so fast, they outrun the Hydra’s bolts. Not the best way to deal with such monsters.
2). Solitary Hydra. One hydra is not so hot. Two is ok, three is good and four is an Aussie summer bar-b-que. Enough Burnt meat to feed an army. It takes 9 seconds before you have 4 Hydra’s actively blasting away. When you are in the thick of things, that’s going to seem an eternity.
3). PvP. Worth a mention. Pretty much any fire spell is useless except fireball versus a decent PvP player. Granted, that Hydra is better than the rest, as an opponent has to keep moving to avoid the bolts, but the skill is pre requisite heavy and there are far better ways to spend 60 odd skill points for PvP. watch out for PK murderers, Low life’s love to stack this spell on way points for you to appear right in the middle of. Cheap, real cheap.

Mercenary.

Just about everybody will tell you the best Mercenary for a Hydress is the Holy Freeze Act Two Town Guard. Well, this is a pretty good suggestion. But, there is another worthy of your consideration.
The Cold Iron Wolf from Act Three. Why? Glacial Spike. You cast the Hydra's, Mercenary casts the Glacial Spikes to freeze monsters solid giving your Hydra's a nice easy target.
Ok, it isn't that great an idea because the mercenary isn't smart enough to change targets once the monster is frozen and Hydra's is having it for lunch. Pity. Just for once, I would love to endorse a mercenary for any character build instead of an act two town guard.

Conclusion.

The Hydress really demonstrates how important item selection can be in V1.10. The bulk of these toys are rather hard to get and therefore expensive. Even then, The Hydress isn't the true uber killing machine Sorceress we all miss from V1.09. No. To Build a Hydress is to build a character to have fun with. It's a bit like building a melee Sorceress, Beastmancer, Singer Barb or Ranger. Its fun. A challenge is always fun. This is where the Hydress is. A fun, challenging Build. Veteran players will cherish her for that alone. Playing one is a bit like a Trapasin or Zoo keeper. Avid Sorceress fan die hards should all have a Hydress in their stable. It just seems right. Can you brag that you have a Matriarch Hydress? No? Time you got started then.
 
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I'll confess I didn't take the time to read all the replies, so I apologize for any repetiveness or redundancy.

Hydra would be ideal for a naked sorc, and a high level static field will be critical. I would suggest going for 12-15, possibly even maxed (around 15 you can hit most things on the screen, at least in the horizontal direction). Max Hydra and Fire Mastery... without a lot of plus skills the damage will be a bit low, but with static field half their health will be gone - even more in lower difficulties. In fact, if you pump static field first, it can be your main attack skill (combined with melee and the merc) until you get to level 24/30.

As for the cold tree, I would suggest using Frozen Orb over Blizzard for a few reasons. First, it has a shorter casting delay. Secondly, it compliments hydra well because it is a direct attack that you control. Blizzard is as well, but I find it can be hard to hit stationary enemies sometimes. Frozen orb doesn't have this problem, and when released on an enemy at the right distance is very powerful.

Conversely, Hydra is an indirect attack because it is cast to a specific spot and fires at whatever enemy is closest, and enemies move around and can be immune to hydra. However, it also allows you to cast around corners and kill enemies without them ever having a clear line of sight on you (gloams, anyone??? I cannot tell you how much gloams are not a problem for my hyrda sorc). Also, ice blast is a great way to keep enemies still while your hdras kill them.

Hydras are definitely viable; not as fast as some fire sorcs, but they can pack a punch with all 4 out at once. They work even better with a high level Static Field, and I highly recommend you try it out and have fun.
 
Nice guide Asmo.

Us SPFers can ignore the stuff about enigma and what not, but the rest of it, including the number crunching, is invaluable. Thanks.

Chromatic Ire is the perfect weapon for those doing this build "on-the-cheap". They can be picked up for Pgems, and provides those juicy skills that the Hydra-Lord needs.
 
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