How NOT to make your upcoming Counsil Horker

[Arkardo]

How NOT to make your upcoming Counsil Horker

So yeah, I was making this titan whirler when I learned of 1.13 and the increased rune drop rates. I decided it would be nice to have a horker right away. I made this guy in 1.12 and have not converted him to 1.13 yet; no use in losing a Fortitude and other goodies to a patch I might not like in the end.

Anyway...

Name: Snoeihard
Class: Barbarian
Experience: 820813815
Level: 82

Naked/Gear

Spoiler

Strength: 415/425
Dexterity: 42/57*
Vitality: 25/35
Energy: 10/10
HP: 277/622
Mana: 91/91
Stamina: 173/253
Defense: 10/2061
AR: 195/540
*Yes, this 'titan' has points in Dexterity. He needs them for his upped Ribcracker and Blades of Ali Baba. :whistling:

Resists:

Spoiler

Fire: 177/137/77
Cold: 127/87/27
Lightning: 173/133/73
Poison: 127/87/27

More stats...

Spoiler

MF: 82
Block: 6
GF: 288
FR/W: 25
FHR: 70
IAS: 110
FCR: 25

Skills:

Spoiler

Bash: 1/2
Leap: 1/2
Double Swing: 0/0
Stun: 1/2
Double Throw: 0/0
Leap Attack: 1/2
Concentrate: 1/2
Frenzy: 0/0
Whirlwind: 20/21
Berserk: 1/2

Sword Mastery: 0/0
Axe Mastery: 0/0
Mace Mastery: 20/21
Pole Arm Mastery: 0/0
Throwing Mastery: 0/0
Spear Mastery: 0/0
Increased Stamina: 0/0
Iron Skin: 1/2
Increased Speed: 0/0
Natural Resistance: 1/2

Howl: 1/2
Find Potion: 1/2
Taunt: 0/0
Shout: 20/21
Find Item: 2/3
Battle Cry: 0/0
Battle Orders: 20/21
Grim Ward: 0/0
War Cry: 0/0
Battle Command: 1/2

Inventory & Stash:

Spoiler

Tome of Town Portal
Fingerprint: 0xd2caa3d2
Item Level: 11 These actually have item levels? :scratchchin:
Version: Expansion 1.10+

Fine Small Charm of Anthrax
Small Charm
Required Level: 36
Fingerprint: 0x8e1ef468
Item Level: 58
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+3 to Maximum Damage
+14 to Attack Rating
Adds 50 Poison Damage Over 6 Secs (150 Frames)

Small Charm of Vita
Small Charm
Required Level: 39
Fingerprint: 0x7ad6dbec
Item Level: 76
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+19 to Life

Small Charm of Vita
Small Charm
Required Level: 39
Fingerprint: 0xae60fbf
Item Level: 85
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+18 to Life

Stalwart Small Charm of Vita
Small Charm
Required Level: 40
Fingerprint: 0x567547cc
Item Level: 80
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+20 Defense
+20 to Life

Sharp Grand Charm of Sustenance
Grand Charm
Required Level: 23
Fingerprint: 0xbacc1334
Item Level: 99
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+9 to Maximum Damage
+73 to Attack Rating
+23 to Life


Gheed's Fortune
Grand Charm
Required Level: 62
Fingerprint: 0xdbb06b53
Item Level: 87
Version: Expansion 1.10+
88% Extra Gold from Monsters
Reduces all Vendor Prices 12%
32% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items

Sharp Grand Charm of Sustenance
Grand Charm
Required Level: 53
Fingerprint: 0x8642b542
Item Level: 99
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+8 to Maximum Damage
+57 to Attack Rating
+33 to Life

Sharp Grand Charm of Life
Grand Charm
Required Level: 21
Fingerprint: 0xfb3007b
Item Level: 80
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+7 to Maximum Damage
+60 to Attack Rating
+11 to Life

Shimmering Small Charm of Fortune
Small Charm
Required Level: 25
Fingerprint: 0xe76c15ee
Item Level: 80
Version: Expansion 1.10+
All Resistances +4
5% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items

Amber Small Charm of Vita
Small Charm
Required Level: 39
Fingerprint: 0xa80133b8
Item Level: 80
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+18 to Life
Lightning Resist +11%

Sharp Grand Charm
Grand Charm
Required Level: 21
Fingerprint: 0x50cdce7f
Item Level: 99
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+10 to Maximum Damage
+66 to Attack Rating

Gear! Now it gets interesting.

Spoiler

Ribcracker
Stalagmite
Two Hand Damage: 315 - 472
Durability: 130 of 130
Required Level: 56
Required Strength: 63
Required Dexterity: 35
Fingerprint: 0x20619b3f
Item Level: 86
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+70% Increased Attack Speed
+50% Faster Hit Recovery
281% Enhanced Damage
Adds 30 - 65 Damage
50% Chance of Crushing Blow
+100% Enhanced Defense
+100 Defense
+15 to Dexterity
Required Level +7
+100 Maximum Durability
1 Sockets (1 used)
Socketed: Shael Rune


Fortitude <-- Hurray for Lower Kurast!
Archon Plate
ElSolDolLo
Defense: 1572
Durability: 60 of 60
Required Level: 63
Required Strength: 103
Fingerprint: 0x714aad2c
Item Level: 85
Version: Expansion 1.10+
20% Chance to cast level 15 Chilling Armor when struck
+25% Faster Cast Rate
300% Enhanced Damage
+200% Enhanced Defense
+15 Defense
+123 to Life (Based on Character Level)
Replenish Life +7
+5% to Maximum Lightning Resist
All Resistances +25
Damage Reduced by 7
12% Damage Taken Goes To Mana
+1 to Light Radius
4 Sockets (4 used)
Socketed: El Rune
Socketed: Sol Rune
Socketed: Dol Rune
Socketed: Lo Rune


Kira's Guardian
Tiara
Defense: 155
Durability: 25 of 25
Required Level: 77
Fingerprint: 0xbba2e1b5
Item Level: 87
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+20% Faster Hit Recovery
+115 Defense
All Resistances +68
Cannot Be Frozen


Laying of Hands
Bramble Mitts
Defense: 87
Durability: 12 of 12
Required Level: 63
Required Strength: 50
Fingerprint: 0xd6eb9555
Item Level: 86
Version: Expansion 1.10+
10% Chance to cast level 3 Holy Bolt on striking
+20% Increased Attack Speed
+350% Damage to Demons
+25 Defense
Fire Resist +50%


War Traveler
Battle Boots
Defense: 122
Durability: 48 of 48
Required Level: 42
Required Strength: 95
Fingerprint: 0xba830f5a
Item Level: 80
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+25% Faster Run/Walk
Adds 15 - 25 Damage
+156% Enhanced Defense
+10 to Strength
+10 to Vitality
40% Slower Stamina Drain
Attacker Takes Damage of 6
45% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items
+30 Maximum Durability


String of Ears
Demonhide Sash
Defense: 111
Durability: 22 of 22
Required Level: 29
Required Strength: 20
Fingerprint: 0x81cc7cd
Item Level: 87
Version: Expansion 1.10+
8% Life stolen per hit
+176% Enhanced Defense
+15 Defense
Damage Reduced by 12%
Magic Damage Reduced by 13
+10 Maximum Durability


Highlord's Wrath
Amulet
Required Level: 65
Fingerprint: 0x1206c932
Item Level: 86
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+1 to All Skills
+20% Increased Attack Speed
Adds 1 - 30 Lightning Damage
30% Deadly Strike (Based on Character Level)
Lightning Resist +35%
Attacker Takes Lightning Damage of 15


Dwarf Star
Ring
Required Level: 45
Fingerprint: 0x16cf4914
Item Level: 86
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+40 to Life
+40 Maximum Stamina
Heal Stamina Plus 15%
Fire Absorb 15%
Magic Damage Reduced by 15
100% Extra Gold from Monsters


Dwarf Star
Ring
Required Level: 45
Fingerprint: 0x90fea9d4
Item Level: 88
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+40 to Life
+40 Maximum Stamina
Heal Stamina Plus 15%
Fire Absorb 15%
Magic Damage Reduced by 14
100% Extra Gold from Monsters


Blade of Ali Baba
Tulwar
One Hand Damage: 33 - 73
Durability: 32 of 32
Required Level: 35
Required Strength: 70
Required Dexterity: 42
Fingerprint: 0x7d8a0662
Item Level: 86
Version: Expansion 1.10+
111% Enhanced Damage
+12 to Dexterity
+15 to Mana
205% Extra Gold from Monsters (Based on Character Level)
82% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items (Based on Character Level)
2 Sockets (0 used)


Blade of Ali Baba
Tulwar
One Hand Damage: 34 - 76
Durability: 32 of 32
Required Level: 35
Required Strength: 70
Required Dexterity: 42
Fingerprint: 0xebda1d9d
Item Level: 87
Version: Expansion 1.10+
118% Enhanced Damage
+12 to Dexterity
+15 to Mana
205% Extra Gold from Monsters (Based on Character Level)
82% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items (Based on Character Level)
2 Sockets (0 used)

Mercenary:

Spoiler

Name: Waheed
Race: Desert Mercenary
Type: Off-Nightmare
Experience: 66118234
Level: 81
Dead?: false Though pretty much...

Naked/Gear
Strength: 179/184
Dexterity: 144/149
HP: 1607/1607
Defense: 1189/2453
AR: 1865/361810

Fire: 145/105/45
Cold: 175/135/75
Lightning: 145/105/45
Poison: 145/105/45


Vampire Gaze
Grim Helm
Defense: 252
Durability: 40 of 40
Required Level: 41
Required Strength: 58
Fingerprint: 0xaeb9f39d
Item Level: 86
Version: Expansion 1.10+
Adds 6 - 22 Cold Damage Over 4 Secs (100 Frames)
7% Mana stolen per hit
8% Life stolen per hit
+100% Enhanced Defense
15% Slower Stamina Drain
Damage Reduced by 15%
Magic Damage Reduced by 15


Treachery
Boneweave
ShaelThulLem
Defense: 1012
Durability: 23 of 23
Required Level: 47
Required Strength: 148
Fingerprint: 0x4c8cbf92
Item Level: 88
Version: Expansion 1.10+
5% Chance to cast level 15 Fade when struck
25% Chance to cast level 15 Venom on striking
+2 to Assassin Skill Levels
+45% Increased Attack Speed
+20% Faster Hit Recovery
Cold Resist +30%
50% Extra Gold from Monsters
Ethereal
3 Sockets (3 used)
Socketed: Shael Rune
Socketed: Thul Rune
Socketed: Lem Rune


Insight
Thresher
RalTirTalSol
Two Hand Damage: 72 - 740
Durability: 33 of 33
Required Level: 53
Required Strength: 142
Required Dexterity: 108
Fingerprint: 0xb2442672
Item Level: 81
Version: Expansion 1.10+
Level 17 Meditation Aura When Equipped
+35% Faster Cast Rate
251% Enhanced Damage
+9 to Minimum Damage
193% Bonus to Attack Rating
Adds 5 - 30 Fire Damage
Adds 75 Poison Damage Over 5 Secs (125 Frames)
+6 to Critical Strike
All Stats +5
+2 to Mana after each Kill
23% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items
Ethereal
4 Sockets (4 used)
Socketed: Ral Rune
Socketed: Tir Rune
Socketed: Tal Rune
Socketed: Sol Rune

Hellforge drops:

Spoiler

Normal: dunno
Nightmare: uuh? Probably something not worthwhile
Hell: Ko (well, that was time well spent)

Other drops:

Spoiler

• Harlequin Crest
• Ethereal Edge
• Some nice Sharp Grand Charms (though none were used for this guy
• Various other nice stuff, but not noteworthy here

So what can this guy do? Well, pretty much nothing. I had expected the 30% fire absorb from dual Dwarf Stars and 42 MDR from String of Ears and dual Dwarf Stars would be a great help against the Counsil, but he gets creamed anyway. On p1.

Gear-wise, I know there's things that can use improvent. Like, more leech (I know I don't have mana leech at the moment, I recently switched a dual leech ring out for a Dwarf Star, hoping I would be able to kill the Counsil quickly enough), more resists, more LIFE, but I can't imagine any gear will make this guy from CREAMED to HORKIN' HR'S TILL WE DROP.

So I'll probably wait until I have decided whether I'll move on to 1.13 or not. If I do, I'll respec him. At least 100 points will go in Vitality, or maybe so much that BO will not even be needed. Also, maxing Shout was a bad idea. It was useful for questing, but in the end they would've been better off in Iron Skin, to save the time to cast it. Even better, 5+ in Natural Resists, at least another 5 in Find Item, and the rest in... well, dunno.

Also, the AR of this guys is terrible. Only about a 50% chance to hit a Counsil. And that's with all those charms. How do you guys do that?

Oh well, at least he was fun playing. Did he die? Of course he did. A lot. Now that I think of it, he was quite frustrating at times.

Well folks, that's all! Better make your horker more durable than mine. :scratchchin:

Pindle creams him too, btw.

 

[Tubba Blubba]

Re: How NOT to make your upcoming Counsil Horker

That's definitely odd. I can tank the Hydras easily with 28 MDR, 15% absorb and 75% resist. Gain ~5-6 levels and try again. I think their physical attacks are getting to you. If you're sure it's the hydras, don Infernostride as well.

 

[Shaandore]

Re: How NOT to make your upcoming Counsil Horker

So what can this guy do? Well, pretty much nothing. I had expected the 30% fire absorb from dual Dwarf Stars and 42 MDR from String of Ears and dual Dwarf Stars would be a great help against the Counsil, but he gets creamed anyway. On p1.

Pindle creams him too, btw.

Oh... sorry to hear that. Definitely a 1.13 build then: a respec would do the trick.
Or you could throw on a 1.07 Arkaine's Valor if you have one :wink:

Anyway congrats on the Pat, it's always difficult to get motivation if you lose interest. At least the gear is almost covered for your next runner, the perfectly optimized one :thumbsup:

 

[Shagsbeard]

Re: How NOT to make your upcoming Counsil Horker

Enough runes for Fortitude, but no Ist's for your Ali Baba's?

 

[Pijus1]

Re: How NOT to make your upcoming Counsil Horker

Get 20 life leech and try the councils, then come and tell use how it goes. Also, I don't see your damage numbers, so either they're not there, or I'm asleep with my keyboard as my pillow. I'm typing this with my face.

I'm not sure if life leech will help. But try it anyway, for the good of science

 

[Serdash]

Re: How NOT to make your upcoming Counsil Horker

Enough runes for Fortitude, but no Ist's for your Ali Baba's?

I had BotD before I had Dual Ist Ali Baba. And I still only have one of those.

I vote you gain a few more levels and sink those points into vitality. Even if you have 2k+ life, they council is going to be spawning with pretty nasty mods. My BotD/Oath whirler runs into some life difficulties sometimes when facing them.

Also, you're not trying to kill them with the Ali Babas are you? Definitely use those for hork only.

 

[sirpoopsalot]

Re: How NOT to make your upcoming Counsil Horker

Even with a moderate investment in vitality, the Council's still quite dangerous - afterall you're looking at 3 different bosses & 8 minions in a very close proximity, so a couple of bad 'overlapping' mods and you're in for a tough ride. One of them's always cursed, so a Might aura and/or Extra Strong and/or Fanaticism aura means they'll pack quite a wallop. Another is always FE/LE, so a random conviction aura means you're going to be looking at an elemental threat...

I have 3100+ life (with BO, level 95), and high resists (70+ for all) and still loose over half of my life once every ~25 runs (and I still have a few NDE's & deaths too, though part of the point of getting to 95 was that I wouldn't care if I died).

Also, being level82 won't help either - I didn't bother trying to do any runs before I was 88, and at that point me and the merc still had a rough time quite regularly.


So for a council runner I would recommend building first for safety, then power/speed. Once you get some levels and some practice you can start to sacrifice a little safety for more speed, and from there reaching a balance point of risks/rewards that works for you is much easier. From what I can see you started at the other end of the scale, and it's obvious the risks are too high right now. You might be able to salvage the idea with a few levels and dumping what you get into vitality, but I suspect you'd do better to go for survival-through-vitality from the start, and worry about your power/speed after the fact.


@shags, I'd say Lem runes (for the gold find) are better since they're much cheaper, more common, and less useful otherwise. 4 Ists is a Vex rune, which is a pretty decent foundation of rune-wealth. But 4 Lems is a little more than a Pul, and something a single lucky hellforge can surpass in value. There's no diminishing returns on Gold Find either.

I still don't have Ist'ed Ali Babas, and suspect I never will.

 

[Ohomemgrande1]

Re: How NOT to make your upcoming Counsil Horker

Also, being level82 won't help either - I didn't bother trying to do any runs before I was 88, and at that point me and the merc still had a rough time quite regularly.

I'll second this suggestion. I notice a huge difference in survivability in going from the low 80's to 87-88 which is where my Trav runner is at the moment.

Join some MP Baals or something :thumbup: if you like to do that sort of thing.

 

[maareek]

Re: How NOT to make your upcoming Counsil Horker

My Council runner has over 3k life and even that bounces around quite a bit from time to time. A titan just can't be an efficient council runner - you could have saved yourself quite a number of headaches if you asked ahead of time (I'm definitely all for unusual characters, but a titan council runner is kind of like a mercless Countess running Blizzsorc, unfortunately).

As for how I deal with the low AR: -enemy defense. Grief has -25%; Death Cleaver has -66% (which is the main reason I lean towards DC even over the 1.07 Death BA). Using Soul Drainers instead of LoH would help you immensely in both the leech and overall damage (because of increased hits) categories. Great as the Ribby is, I think there are better options for a Council Whirler - elite axes like Death Cleaver, Razor's Edge and Cranebeak jump out at me immediately (used all three with Gib; each is pretty delicious).

Hydras can't be this char's problem. I'd be surprised if you take any damage from hydras. The various physical and elemental damages from the council (Geleb can get jaw-dropping elemental damage, for instance) no doubt cause your constant deaths. Your level doesn't help - the council devours characters under their level, even an incredibly well geared one will notice a large shift in difficulty when below 85.

As you mentioned Shout is a waste, but Iron Skin is, too. Increased Speed, Natural Resistances and Find Item are good dumps, though. I'd suggest getting ~7-10 in Increased Speed and dumping the Kira's for something better. Arreat's would be helpful, but there are other options, as well.

For the merc: give him a Reaper's Toll if you can. The (very, very few) corpses it shatters are drastically offset by just how much it speeds up every run.

Anyway, you say you enjoyed him and that's the most important part. Congrats on getting him through the game. That hopefully offsets some of the frustration of him not performing the job you expected, but I'm hoping I was able to provide a little help in getting on the right track. Be glad to help out if you have further questions, though.

 

[DZJB]

Re: How NOT to make your upcoming Counsil Horker

If it makes you feel better, I really like his name .

I personally think too that it can't be the Hydras. Though I can't give you any more tips, as I'm yet to make my own council runner.

 

[Shagsbeard]

Re: How NOT to make your upcoming Counsil Horker

If we're giving up on MF for the council, wouldn't two Heart Carvers be a better horking pair for the +8 to hork?

 

[maareek]

Re: How NOT to make your upcoming Counsil Horker

Who's "giving up on MF for the council?" Most people don't have Ists to spare and Ali Babas give a nice boost of MF to begin with (combined with Gheed's pretty much any Council runner will have 200 MF or better on hork [save for those going all out on GF]). You can use MF jewels instead of Ists, anyway, if you really want to add more MF. For a pure rune hunter, Heart Carvers might be a better idea, for that extra percent or two over the long haul, but for general running Ali Babas (even plain) will provide much, much more interesting returns.

 

[Kimppi]

Re: How NOT to make your upcoming Counsil Horker

I think two echoing weapons would be better than Heart Carvers. More life is always cool.

 

[Shagsbeard]

Re: How NOT to make your upcoming Counsil Horker

What's Ali Baba's advantage over Gul Daggers?

 

[sirpoopsalot]

Re: How NOT to make your upcoming Counsil Horker

Basically the 2 sockets and the GoldFind make AliBaba better (though the higher requirements could theoretically trip you up). Depending on what you socket, the MF from AliBaba can be higher than Gull. Or you can get other things from those sockets (if you want).

Since the council drops decent items in addition to gold, I don't see anything really surpassing AliBaba's balance of GF and MF boosts.

Gull
Dagger
One-Hand Damage: 2 To 19 (10.5 Avg)
Required Level: 4
Durability: 16
Base Weapon Speed: [-20]
Adds 1-15 damage
100% Better Chance of Getting Magic Item
-5 to Mana


Blade Of Ali Baba
Tulwar
One-Hand Damage: (25-35) To (56-77) (40.5-56 Avg)
Required Level: 35
Required Strength: 70
Required Dexterity: 42
Durability: 32
Base Weapon Speed: [20]
+60-120% Enhanced Damage (varies)
+ (2.5 Per Character Level) 2-247 % Extra Gold From Monsters (Based On Character Level)
+ (1 Per Character Level) 1-99 % Better Chance of Getting Magic Items (Based On Character Level)
+15 To Mana
+5-15 To Dexterity (varies)
Socketed (2)

 

[maareek]

Re: How NOT to make your upcoming Counsil Horker

Ali Baba's advantage lies in the GF and the sockets. I don't see any point in maximizing MF over GF for the council since they don't drop all that well. If you're running the council for their items, you should be running Meph. For charms, MF is useless (possibly even detrimental), jewels typically likewise and for runes it doesn't matter. Extra GF is nice to have for gambling, merc resurrections, etc.

The council drops a large proportion of misc items (charms; runes; gems; jewels; gold), with a fairly low TC cap on it's item drops and ilvls of 85 - not very efficient for item MFing, to be honest. It's just a nice supplement to the gold, gems, charms, etc.

 

[snickersnack]

Re: How NOT to make your upcoming Counsil Horker

Holy crap dude. I didn't read the comments so far, but it seems like you're doing lots of things wrong.

Insight? Why? What are you casting? Reaper's would really help. (it would occasionally shatter a corpse, but it's better that what you have now). Even a simple Kelpie would be better, I think.

622 life?!? Please spend the rest of those stats in vitality.

As far as hitting things, are you using Battle Cry? It makes pretty sizable dent in enemy defense. A low level BC with level 82 should be enough to hit just fine. You could also stack more steel gcs.

I've never whirled through trav, but that's my input.

 

[Pijus1]

Re: How NOT to make your upcoming Counsil Horker

@Snickers: It's a titan build. It's supposed to have 662 life. I suspect playing a titan through the game was as much a purpose of this character as running council. Well, I'm guessing really

Anyway, to repeat myself, your build is a Titan, and thus deals more damage than usual. get a good amount of life leech and see if it improves your survivability, since damage helps leech alot. Also, reapers toll is a good idea.

My own council whirler uses ali baba's with GF jewels.

 

[Arkardo]

Re: How NOT to make your upcoming Counsil Horker

Wow, I didn't expect this many reactions!

That's definitely odd. I can tank the Hydras easily with 28 MDR, 15% absorb and 75% resist. Gain ~5-6 levels and try again. I think their physical attacks are getting to you. If you're sure it's the hydras, don Infernostride as well.

Yeah, looking back, I might have missed what was actually damaging me. I guess I underestimated their physical attacks.

Oh... sorry to hear that. Definitely a 1.13 build then: a respec would do the trick.
Or you could throw on a 1.07 Arkaine's Valor if you have one :wink:

Anyway congrats on the Pat, it's always difficult to get motivation if you lose interest. At least the gear is almost covered for your next runner, the perfectly optimized one :thumbsup:

Actually, I have two 1.07 AV's... interesting suggestion, I'll consider it! I've been reluctant to forward items (except for some minor stuff from 1.12 to 1.13), so far, but for this it could be very interesting.
I didn't really lose interest; I was hoping the equipment I switched to after killing Hell Baal would work out for the Counsil.

Enough runes for Fortitude, but no Ist's for your Ali Baba's?

Nope. Never bothered with them. I've always been magic/rune/whatever finding with a Blizzy, so no need for them. This is the very first time I use them.

Get 20 life leech and try the councils, then come and tell use how it goes. Also, I don't see your damage numbers, so either they're not there, or I'm asleep with my keyboard as my pillow. I'm typing this with my face.

I'm not sure if life leech will help. But try it anyway, for the good of science

Yeah, some more leech should help, too. I just overlooked their physical attacks, and I think there's the problem.
Also, Whirlwind does 3601-5825 damage, according to the LCS. So yeah, my bad! I hope you got those key imprints out of your face!

I had BotD before I had Dual Ist Ali Baba. And I still only have one of those.

I vote you gain a few more levels and sink those points into vitality. Even if you have 2k+ life, they council is going to be spawning with pretty nasty mods. My BotD/Oath whirler runs into some life difficulties sometimes when facing them.

Also, you're not trying to kill them with the Ali Babas are you? Definitely use those for hork only.

No no, I use an upped Ribcracker! :thumbup:
I didn't expect my level would have a significant difference, so I'll level him up a bit. Also, those 13 unspent stat points are going straight into vit.

Even with a moderate investment in vitality, the Council's still quite dangerous - afterall you're looking at 3 different bosses & 8 minions in a very close proximity, so a couple of bad 'overlapping' mods and you're in for a tough ride. One of them's always cursed, so a Might aura and/or Extra Strong and/or Fanaticism aura means they'll pack quite a wallop. Another is always FE/LE, so a random conviction aura means you're going to be looking at an elemental threat...

I have 3100+ life (with BO, level 95), and high resists (70+ for all) and still loose over half of my life once every ~25 runs (and I still have a few NDE's & deaths too, though part of the point of getting to 95 was that I wouldn't care if I died).

Also, being level82 won't help either - I didn't bother trying to do any runs before I was 88, and at that point me and the merc still had a rough time quite regularly.


So for a council runner I would recommend building first for safety, then power/speed. Once you get some levels and some practice you can start to sacrifice a little safety for more speed, and from there reaching a balance point of risks/rewards that works for you is much easier. From what I can see you started at the other end of the scale, and it's obvious the risks are too high right now. You might be able to salvage the idea with a few levels and dumping what you get into vitality, but I suspect you'd do better to go for survival-through-vitality from the start, and worry about your power/speed after the fact.


@shags, I'd say Lem runes (for the gold find) are better since they're much cheaper, more common, and less useful otherwise. 4 Ists is a Vex rune, which is a pretty decent foundation of rune-wealth. But 4 Lems is a little more than a Pul, and something a single lucky hellforge can surpass in value. There's no diminishing returns on Gold Find either.

I still don't have Ist'ed Ali Babas, and suspect I never will.

Yeah, I probably underestimated the effect of character level. I'll respec him if I move on to 1.13, otherwise he'll be a Pat, and he was fun to play (on the whole :thumbup.

I saved up my first HF runes to create a HotO

I'll second this suggestion. I notice a huge difference in survivability in going from the low 80's to 87-88 which is where my Trav runner is at the moment.

Join some MP Baals or something :thumbup: if you like to do that sort of thing.

Hmm, I usually don't MP, but maybe I should some time!

My Council runner has over 3k life and even that bounces around quite a bit from time to time. A titan just can't be an efficient council runner - you could have saved yourself quite a number of headaches if you asked ahead of time (I'm definitely all for unusual characters, but a titan council runner is kind of like a mercless Countess running Blizzsorc, unfortunately).

As for how I deal with the low AR: -enemy defense. Grief has -25%; Death Cleaver has -66% (which is the main reason I lean towards DC even over the 1.07 Death BA). Using Soul Drainers instead of LoH would help you immensely in both the leech and overall damage (because of increased hits) categories. Great as the Ribby is, I think there are better options for a Council Whirler - elite axes like Death Cleaver, Razor's Edge and Cranebeak jump out at me immediately (used all three with Gib; each is pretty delicious).

Hydras can't be this char's problem. I'd be surprised if you take any damage from hydras. The various physical and elemental damages from the council (Geleb can get jaw-dropping elemental damage, for instance) no doubt cause your constant deaths. Your level doesn't help - the council devours characters under their level, even an incredibly well geared one will notice a large shift in difficulty when below 85.

As you mentioned Shout is a waste, but Iron Skin is, too. Increased Speed, Natural Resistances and Find Item are good dumps, though. I'd suggest getting ~7-10 in Increased Speed and dumping the Kira's for something better. Arreat's would be helpful, but there are other options, as well.

For the merc: give him a Reaper's Toll if you can. The (very, very few) corpses it shatters are drastically offset by just how much it speeds up every run.

Anyway, you say you enjoyed him and that's the most important part. Congrats on getting him through the game. That hopefully offsets some of the frustration of him not performing the job you expected, but I'm hoping I was able to provide a little help in getting on the right track. Be glad to help out if you have further questions, though.

Outside of my IK whirler, I didn't have much experience with whirlers. I had read that whirlers often have problems with AR, but, to be honest, I hoped slapping on Fortitude and an upped Ribby would work out. For the most part it did, because missing a few hits doesn't really matter with such a fast weapon, so much damage and 65% CB (I used Gore's throughout the game).

I hadn't really spent much time outfitting my merc for the Counsil, as I expected him to die very often anyway. But perhaps Guardian Angel + Kira's Guardian would help? Also, I had considered Reaper's, but I expected shattered corpses to be a problem, so I decided to stick with Insight to compensate for my current lack of mana leech (1.13 lowers the initial mana cost by 50% as well).

I didn't ask ahead, 'cause I was just creating a titan for the heck of it. Then I heard of 1.13 and I thought I'd give it a try! ^^

Hopefully I can get a Lo with my Blizzy running LK, so I can create Grief! That pretty much solves everything. I mean, stuff just dies when you swing around that thing. Oh, my cheesy days on bnet...

If it makes you feel better, I really like his name .

I personally think too that it can't be the Hydras. Though I can't give you any more tips, as I'm yet to make my own council runner.

Thanks! :thumbup:

If we're giving up on MF for the council, wouldn't two Heart Carvers be a better horking pair for the +8 to hork?

I'm there for the runes, but I figured finding something interesting from time to time would keep me running longer. At the very least I'll be horking money, so I can screw the rules. And I can use the gold, as I've lost billions by first switching computers, and then moving from ATMA to GoMule. :scratchchin:

Who's "giving up on MF for the council?" Most people don't have Ists to spare and Ali Babas give a nice boost of MF to begin with (combined with Gheed's pretty much any Council runner will have 200 MF or better on hork [save for those going all out on GF]). You can use MF jewels instead of Ists, anyway, if you really want to add more MF. For a pure rune hunter, Heart Carvers might be a better idea, for that extra percent or two over the long haul, but for general running Ali Babas (even plain) will provide much, much more interesting returns.

Yeah, agreed!

I think two echoing weapons would be better than Heart Carvers. More life is always cool.

Exactly. That +1 to find item isn't going to do much.

What's Ali Baba's advantage over Gul Daggers?

Basically the 2 sockets and the GoldFind make AliBaba better (though the higher requirements could theoretically trip you up). Depending on what you socket, the MF from AliBaba can be higher than Gull. Or you can get other things from those sockets (if you want).

Since the council drops decent items in addition to gold, I don't see anything really surpassing AliBaba's balance of GF and MF boosts.

Gull
Dagger
One-Hand Damage: 2 To 19 (10.5 Avg)
Required Level: 4
Durability: 16
Base Weapon Speed: [-20]
Adds 1-15 damage
100% Better Chance of Getting Magic Item
-5 to Mana


Blade Of Ali Baba
Tulwar
One-Hand Damage: (25-35) To (56-77) (40.5-56 Avg)
Required Level: 35
Required Strength: 70
Required Dexterity: 42
Durability: 32
Base Weapon Speed: [20]
+60-120% Enhanced Damage (varies)
+ (2.5 Per Character Level) 2-247 % Extra Gold From Monsters (Based On Character Level)
+ (1 Per Character Level) 1-99 % Better Chance of Getting Magic Items (Based On Character Level)
+15 To Mana
+5-15 To Dexterity (varies)
Socketed (2)

Ali Baba's advantage lies in the GF and the sockets. I don't see any point in maximizing MF over GF for the council since they don't drop all that well. If you're running the council for their items, you should be running Meph. For charms, MF is useless (possibly even detrimental), jewels typically likewise and for runes it doesn't matter. Extra GF is nice to have for gambling, merc resurrections, etc.

The council drops a large proportion of misc items (charms; runes; gems; jewels; gold), with a fairly low TC cap on it's item drops and ilvls of 85 - not very efficient for item MFing, to be honest. It's just a nice supplement to the gold, gems, charms, etc.

Holy crap dude. I didn't read the comments so far, but it seems like you're doing lots of things wrong.

Insight? Why? What are you casting? Reaper's would really help. (it would occasionally shatter a corpse, but it's better that what you have now). Even a simple Kelpie would be better, I think.

622 life?!? Please spend the rest of those stats in vitality.

As far as hitting things, are you using Battle Cry? It makes pretty sizable dent in enemy defense. A low level BC with level 82 should be enough to hit just fine. You could also stack more steel gcs.

I've never whirled through trav, but that's my input.

@Snickers: It's a titan build. It's supposed to have 662 life. I suspect playing a titan through the game was as much a purpose of this character as running council. Well, I'm guessing really

Anyway, to repeat myself, your build is a Titan, and thus deals more damage than usual. get a good amount of life leech and see if it improves your survivability, since damage helps leech alot. Also, reapers toll is a good idea.

My own council whirler uses ali baba's with GF jewels.

Yeah, I had hoped that 400+ ED% from strength + 300% ED from Fort + 50% CB from Ribby would do them in easily. BC is a good suggestion, but I think it's too late for this guy. Or at least until I respec him.

Well, thanks guys, for the input! I will try some of the idea's, after I level him up a bit.
Now to find a place where I can actually level him without dying much... :scratchchin:

 

[UllaV]

Re: How NOT to make your upcoming Counsil Horker

Exactly. That +1 to find item isn't going to do much.

Two Heart Carvers are +8 to Find Item, just to pick a nit.

Ulla