Fluffy has made it to Hell

[Boulos]

Fluffy has made it to Hell

My HC Meteorb has made it to Hell. She bested the NM Ancients and then moved on to make quick work of Baal. I think leaving it at P1 for the Ancients through Baal made it much easier. I was afraid of going any higher...I really hope to make Guardian with this character.

I'm currently at level 71 and will play around in NM until I hit about level 75. Then I'll try venturing into Hell.

Any suggestions or tips for staying alive? :smiley:

 

[Online]

Hi , nice to see you making good progress :smiley:

Cant really give much advice on how to play meteorb , as i've never really tried one. But remember, if you ever feel like you're in danger teleport back. And never teleport into unknown territory. Also , if you get amped , go to town to get rid of the curse. Sorcs are fragile.

 

[chillnkill]

My HC Meteorb has made it to Hell. She bested the NM Ancients and then moved on to make quick work of Baal. I think leaving it at P1 for the Ancients through Baal made it much easier. I was afraid of going any higher...I really hope to make Guardian with this character.

I'm currently at level 71 and will play around in NM until I hit about level 75. Then I'll try venturing into Hell.

Any suggestions or tips for staying alive? :smiley:

Keep your Merc alive!...He may be a world class moron, but to me he's sort of like the canary in the mine. I feed him lots of purples and in return he takes all the heat. Between him and 75% block my measly 810 life goes a long way most of the time. If he dies alot faster than normal I know I need to get out fast myself. It's more expensive always buying him back, giving him all the purples etc., but it's safe.

 

[Arreat_mercenary]

I think you can find this thread very interesting: SP HC Survival Guide

There are several tips there in order to make it to guardian. Also, never rush to things and know your limits, there's no need to fireball a pack of conviction gloams, sometimes, retreat is the wise option :smiley:

 

[VCrow]

Keep your Merc alive!...He may be a world class moron, but to me he's sort of like the canary in the mine. I feed him lots of purples and in return he takes all the heat. Between him and 75% block my measly 810 life goes a long way most of the time. If he dies alot faster than normal I know I need to get out fast myself. It's more expensive always buying him back, giving him all the purples etc., but it's safe.

I'm beginning to consider whether 75% block on a sorceress in hardcore mode is a bad idea. Sorceresses get hit one or two times and then teleport to safety, so the goal is to survive a couple of hits. Max blocking will fail 1 out of 4 times, and you can't afford to die even once.

I'm making a new magic find sorceress right now, and I'm putting all of my points into vitality after getting enough strength for my equipment. She already has more life than my old level 80 sorceress, and she's level 55. Also, this time she's wearing Shaftstop with a perfect ruby and a 15% String of Ears. Pindleskin is not going to one-shot me again. Blocking is not helpful to prevent that, since eventually he will get through a mere 75% probability.

Now, for a melee character that is taking continuous hits, max blocking is no doubt a good idea. I am just thinking that for a caster that only takes one or two hits at a time, it is not a good idea in hardcore mode.

 

[Milb]

@VCrow: I think that max block on a sorc is a must. She doesn't get much life from Vitality so I think points spent in Dex are points better spent. She may not get into melee range very often, but that is not the problem. Archers and other ranged attackers will be the ones causing you trouble and if you can block 3/4 of their attacks then you will be far safer than just having about 200-300 extra life.

 

[Arreat_mercenary]

I think Milb is right.............. if you already have a nice shield (a > 70% shield is almost a must), otherwise, it's better not to bother at all with blocking. People poor or which are self-found may not find blocking as a good option (like myself).

Still, I think the best defense of a sorc is her offense capability (kill them before they even attack you), her movement capacity (teleport to safety when things get ugly) and the general ability of the player (do not rush to a mob, move carefully, divide and conquer techniques, etc.)

 

[Milb]

A nice shield for blocking is very easy to come across. I tend to use Rhyme Tower Shields on my untwinked characters, and if I can't find a 2os Tower Shield I'll use a Bone Shield of Deflecting which you can shop pretty easily from Normal Drognan.

 

[BabyLink]

My HC Meteorb has made it to Hell. She bested the NM Ancients and then moved on to make quick work of Baal. I think leaving it at P1 for the Ancients through Baal made it much easier. I was afraid of going any higher...I really hope to make Guardian with this character.

I'm currently at level 71 and will play around in NM until I hit about level 75. Then I'll try venturing into Hell.

Any suggestions or tips for staying alive? :smiley:

do not do like i did, it will help alot. See ya at guardian

I have begun a meteorb there's two weeks, she died (doh), and know i understand why she died. I made an enchantress after this, but i might remove her and begin a fishymancer. Thx to you i know i shouldn't have tele'd in a pack of electric-spammer thingy with a holy freeze merc. Holy freeze woke up the lightning, and the lightning made me sleep forever rop:

 

[VCrow]

@VCrow: I think that max block on a sorc is a must. She doesn't get much life from Vitality so I think points spent in Dex are points better spent. She may not get into melee range very often, but that is not the problem. Archers and other ranged attackers will be the ones causing you trouble and if you can block 3/4 of their attacks then you will be far safer than just having about 200-300 extra life.

It's more than 200-300 extra life though. My level 80 sorceress had put 173 points into dexterity that would have gone into vitality: that's 346. Also I would have been using Oak Sage from Heart of the Oak if I had a Vex rune, so when I do, that will increase by 45%. Also, damage reduction % from items increases your effective health by up to double when taking physical damage. In addition, Call to Arms can give an increase in hit points over too although that is well out of my range for the time being.

All that increases the value of points into vitality tremendously, and it more and more as you get better equipment to take advantage of it.

 

[Arreat_mercenary]

VCrow has a point in his post.

Also, I have never been fond of blocking in sorcs, it requires a heavy dex investment, greatly decreasing life, also, shields with good blocking normally have from moderate to heavy strength requirement, and although you can make Rhyme, I prefer to put 3 pdiamonds in a shield for the very good resistance boost.

Blocking also leads to some problems, like interrupting your acts (blocking animation) or leading to the very dangerous blocking lock (due to all the attacks, you stay in blocking animation for a period of time, almost eventually leading to death); and let's not say blocking does not help with elemental attacks.

Life, in the other hand, works for every type of attack, does not leads to a block, and, who doesn't want more life?

 

[Milb]

It's more than 200-300 extra life though. My level 80 sorceress had put 173 points into dexterity that would have gone into vitality: that's 346. Also I would have been using Oak Sage from Heart of the Oak if I had a Vex rune, so when I do, that will increase by 45%. Also, damage reduction % from items increases your effective health by up to double when taking physical damage. In addition, Call to Arms can give an increase in hit points over too although that is well out of my range for the time being.

All that increases the value of points into vitality tremendously, and it more and more as you get better equipment to take advantage of it.

Check out this thread, post 2 by Nightfish more specifically. In my eyes it's pretty clear that max block on a sorc > vitality.

Most casters don't tend to have %DR items as well, apart from Shako (unless I'm forgetting some), so you would have to reduce the effectiveness of your character to incorporate it. I think, even with HotO and CtA, max block would still be the better option (haven't done the maths but I bet it would still come out on top).

 

[VCrow]

Check out this thread, post 2 by Nightfish more specifically. In my eyes it's pretty clear that max block on a sorc > vitality.

Most casters don't tend to have %DR items as well, apart from Shako (unless I'm forgetting some), so you would have to reduce the effectiveness of your character to incorporate it. I think, even with HotO and CtA, max block would still be the better option (haven't done the maths but I bet it would still come out on top).

I'm going to go read that thread, but I want to separately address %DR first. What armors are better for a sorceress than the combination of Harlequin Crest with a perfect topaz, Shaftstop with a perfect ruby, and Verdungo's Hearty Cord? My perspective is magic-finding Pindleskin, but I'm also quite likely to magic-find elsewhere too. I'm not shooting for any higher than 375% MF at most though, and a lot of it from charms.

 

[Fluffballer]

I've made it to hell many times!

 

[VCrow]

I remember that thread now, at least, I remember reading Nightfish's breakdown before. He may have reposted what he had written before. There's a couple of problems with it.

I'm going to use level 92 as a level that a typical guardian plateaus at because I believe it can pretty easily be reached just by doing Pindleskin runs.

The amount of dexterity needed to maintain 75% blocking increases by 2 dex per level, so maybe he was using a lower level as a benchmark. Realistically anyway, a non-Stormshield sorc will have a 60% shield (Rhyme/Lidless) and require a total of 245 total dexterity at level 92, or 220 dexterity added from points or items. A sorc using Stormshield will lose more points into strength than save from the higher blocking.

A second problem is that with 50% physical damage reduction, health is twice as effective against physical attacks. A 400 increase in life will be worth 800 hit points against physical attacks, because the attacks are only half as effective.

A third problem, like I said, is that the value of vitality points can be multiplied not only by %DR but also by Oak Sage charges and Call to Arms on switch (although these runewords are difficult to acquire, they are by no means impossible especially Heart of the Oak).

Lastly, there are some sources of damage in the game that are so high, blocking is useless. Pindleskin's charge. I have no idea how much damage it does, but it one-shotted a 707 hit point sorceress that had no %DR and 75% blocking. Sure, 3 out of 4 times I would have blocked that, but it only takes that 1 out of 4 times. Vitality needs to be high enough to survive at least one of those attacks otherwise blocking is useless. It would be ideal to be able to survive a couple of them.

Being able to survive 40 arrows instead of 10 is nice, but that's misleading. I often do the happy feet thing where I run back in forth to avoid the incoming arrows from hitting me while I wait for my casting timer. Since blocking is reduced to 33% (I think), so it's more like 15 arrows not 40.

Plus there's always gloams...

 

[chillnkill]

I remember that thread now, at least, I remember reading Nightfish's breakdown before. He may have reposted what he had written before. There's a couple of problems with it.

I'm going to use level 92 as a level that a typical guardian plateaus at because I believe it can pretty easily be reached just by doing Pindleskin runs.

The amount of dexterity needed to maintain 75% blocking increases by 2 dex per level, so maybe he was using a lower level as a benchmark. Realistically anyway, a non-Stormshield sorc will have a 60% shield (Rhyme/Lidless) and require a total of 245 total dexterity at level 92, or 220 dexterity added from points or items. A sorc using Stormshield will lose more points into strength than save from the higher blocking.

A second problem is that with 50% physical damage reduction, health is twice as effective against physical attacks. A 400 increase in life will be worth 800 hit points against physical attacks, because the attacks are only half as effective.

A third problem, like I said, is that the value of vitality points can be multiplied not only by %DR but also by Oak Sage charges and Call to Arms on switch (although these runewords are difficult to acquire, they are by no means impossible especially Heart of the Oak).

Lastly, there are some sources of damage in the game that are so high, blocking is useless. Pindleskin's charge. I have no idea how much damage it does, but it one-shotted a 707 hit point sorceress that had no %DR and 75% blocking. Sure, 3 out of 4 times I would have blocked that, but it only takes that 1 out of 4 times. Vitality needs to be high enough to survive at least one of those attacks otherwise blocking is useless. It would be ideal to be able to survive a couple of them.

Being able to survive 40 arrows instead of 10 is nice, but that's misleading. I often do the happy feet thing where I run back in forth to avoid the incoming arrows from hitting me while I wait for my casting timer. Since blocking is reduced to 33% (I think), so it's more like 15 arrows not 40.

Plus there's always gloams...

VCrow: couple observations...

A 707 Hp Sorc? Thats awful low. I have over 800 hp at lvl 81 and could easily raise it 100 more with save points. No real reason to yet, but that may change.

Also, the shields you mentioned are not max block canidates in my mind. A Whistans takes 155 dex at lvl 81. No real biggie.

As for Gloams....The way I see it, if I didn't have max block I could have ~250more HP. First, is that really enough to make a difference between life and death if I screw up bad enough to take 850 damage? Maybe, but probably not. Second, why make a build a certain way just because that alternative way provides a slim margin of extra safety agianst 1 lethal monster type but significantly lowers the safety margin against many,many other monsters that are just as, if not more, lethal?

What I do agree with is your HP have to be high enough to take that 1 hit kill. It doesn't really need to be 2 becuase with 75% block you shouldnt get 2 back to back. Thats why I think unless you have Uber gear (Cta is Uber gear to me, so is Hoto) if you go max block you need a low dex req. shield and low strength req. gear so that you can have max block and 1000+ HP together.

 

[VCrow]

VCrow: couple observations...

A 707 Hp Sorc? Thats awful low. I have over 800 hp at lvl 81 and could easily raise it 100 more with save points. No real reason to yet, but that may change.

Also, the shields you mentioned are not max block canidates in my mind. A Whistans takes 155 dex at lvl 81. No real biggie.

As for Gloams....The way I see it, if I didn't have max block I could have ~250more HP. First, is that really enough to make a difference between life and death if I screw up bad enough to take 850 damage? Maybe, but probably not. Second, why make a build a certain way just because that alternative way provides a slim margin of extra safety agianst 1 lethal monster type but significantly lowers the safety margin against many,many other monsters that are just as, if not more, lethal?

What I do agree with is your HP have to be high enough to take that 1 hit kill. It doesn't really need to be 2 becuase with 75% block you shouldnt get 2 back to back. Thats why I think unless you have Uber gear (Cta is Uber gear to me, so is Hoto) if you go max block you need a low dex req. shield and low strength req. gear so that you can have max block and 1000+ HP together.

Yes, it was very very low. It was a character I made just for doing a specific type of magic find run, and once I finished doing that, I just kept some cheap MF gear on her and experimented running Pindleskin. Unfortunately, I forgot about the charms in my inventory and my mercenary's equipment. o.0 Oops.

My new MF sorc for a different task is now level 65 with 863 hp. ^_^

Don't forget this is hardcore mode, so everything is done very defensively. If you want to reduce the number of attacks which hit you, I think it is better to find defense equipment and get a defiance merc, then it is to put 200 points into dexterity. The higher level you get, the more points 75% blocking will cost, and the more uber gear you get, the higher the opportunity cost it will be for not putting points into vitality.

A Whitstan's doesn't really do a whole lot besides give blocking. The other shield candidates are better, and really if you want protection from a shield you go with Stormshield and get more bang (protection) for your buck (status points) by getting the strength for it.

I really don't understand the logic of getting 75% blocking but then getting 0% damage reduction. The 25% of hits that get through are going to kill you.. -_-

 

[Boulos]

Just to let you all know. I'm playing completely self-found. I have completely ignored Dexterity in favor of Vitality. I'm now at level 70. I have a little over 1,000 life. My resists are maxed in NM thanks to a shield with Resist All and 3 Perf. Diamonds. I think it's too late at this point to pump Dex. for blocking...so, I guess that argument will play out soon enough. :smiley:

 

[neumein]

>> Vcrow:

Your analysis and knowledge of the game is very deep, and very insightful. Thanks for sharing with the rest of us. :thumbsup:

 

[Sidhe1]

Haha, whenever someone asks about survivability in Hell, the debate about Dex versus Vit comes up. Sort of a neverending story, really. Been going on for years now...

Thing is, both paths can be followed to get your Sorc through Hell, and even the playing style doesn't differ that much: a Sorc is still a fragile character, and careful play is the path to follow, especially when playing HC. So personally I'd say: pick the stat that complements your playing style most. Other than that, play carefully, retreat when necessary, treat your merc like you love him, and stock up on purples. Oh, and Teleport and Static are your friends, but that goes without saying.