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Vessel of Hatred

Fire Avenger

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prexus

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Sep 9, 2004
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Fire Avenger

(I got the idea from the avenger thread, it's just too crowded so I'm posting this in a new thread).
I've got the idea while looking at avngers. You can have cookie cutter that are evenly balanced, or you can have resist specific avengers. I chose fire because:
Alot less builds utilize fire. In cold you have the sorcs, whom make everyonbe stack cold resist already and have anti cold gear. bad for us. On light you have templars, zons and sorcs whom make people stack. not good. But on fire, we have fire bears (not that scary) and fireball sorces (rare) whom don't realy make you stack. Also, the only % fire absorb gear I could find is dwarf stars, which would realy cripple your oponents (str/dex for gear, leech, skills, life/mana/res., etc.). And while almost everybody carries Lo'd shako, I'm yet to see somebody using a Vex'd Shako (heck, I didn't even know that's what Vex does. And Vex runes are better off at silence / HOTO anyway).
Now, skills:
20 Vengance - Your attack, you should better get used to it.
20 Holy Fire - As a synergy, not to be used as an aura.
20 Resist Fire - Synergy!
20 Salvation - Synergy!
25 - + to offensive aura skills Conviction - Your main aura.
1 Holy shield - an ever-so-useful defense booost.
This should by 101 skill points (10 into conviction), AKA level 89. If you level further consider working to meditation and redemption or pumping holy shield.
Items:
Weapon - HoJ high damage (berzerker axe is good) weapon. There is not other choice here. Reasons:
Active Holy Fire aura - You have all synergies, so it's free fire damage that will add to your vengance damage.
-20% to enemy fire res - Alot of people only consider the -150% of conviction here, which would realy help you.
Good damage - not an EBOTD, but still a very good weapon.
20% DS - nice, not alot more.
33% IAS - a wierd number, but it helps.
As for the rest of the gear, I was thinking about:
HoZ - no other choice. +skills, res, stats and high CTB make it the best of the best.
Shako - Skills, life, mana. With your high fire res, Andy's helm may also be worth looking.
Armor - Any good armor that will fit a paladin will do: GA (resist, +skills, +CTB), Enigma (skills, str, teleport), Valor (def/fhr/life/skills) CoH (skills, resists) or stone for high def, lionheart for nice stats etc.
Ammy - Highlords is great for ias and skills, maras or rares also rock.
Gloves - Bloodfist is good (FHR, IAS, life) or Draculs (OW, IAS)
Rings - BK bands (skills, life, ll), SoJs (skills, mana), Raven (if you need CBF), good rares (life/mana/res/melee stats/leeches)
Boots - I'm a fan of aldurs, but any good other boots will help. Look for stats you need: life, mana, FHR, fr/w, etc.
(For +skills claculations I consider HoZ, +2 skills helm, +2 skills armor, +2 skills ammy, HoJ, 2x +1 skills rings, anni, no skillers, so +12 all skills +14 combat)
So what we get:
+~1.3k damage from HoJ aura with ~200 dam/sec
Vengence with +308% cold/light and +508% fire
-170% to enemy fire res (HoJ and Conviction)
Your HoJ (if a zerker) should has an averge of +305%ED to the 24-71 averge, giving it 73-216 damage before other items. Now add 2x 308% + 508% making it 820 to 2427 damg before conviction. Now add the Holy Fire from HoJ gives 2.1k to 3.7k. (I expected more, anyone find any mistakes in my math?)
This is just alot of ideas crambled togheter, looking for feedback.
Cheers,
Prexus.
 
Why are you maxing Holy Fire? It doesn't synergize anything. Vengeance only receives bonuses from the resist auras (Resist Fire, Resist Cold, Resist Lightning, Salvation).
 
I've made a this pally and posted about it before, so I'll keep it brief.

- Try to use Ormus Robes and War Travs, they add excellent damage.

- I use a Phaseblade because it looks cool :flip: and it's easy to hit 8fpa.

- What the hell are you putting points into Holy Fire for, HoJ gives you that.

- Skills should look like this;
20 Vengeance
20 Salvation
20 Resist Fire
10+ Resist Cold
10+ Resisit Lightning
25 Conviction (With +skills)

- Make sure you hit 8fpa.
 
Fallen - Yes, I forgot that, that frees quite alot of skill points.
Reno - Ormus should be cool, the reason I don't think I'll use a phase blade is the low physical damage. Vengence imbues the physical damage, so I don't think that the extra -2FPA will make such a diffrence as will the added physical damage.
The build should now look like:
20 Vengence
20 Resist Fire
20 Salvation
1 Holy Shield
25-all skills conviction
rest divived equaly between resist cold / resist lightning / holy shield (if you want)
For this build to do well in PvP, what should I use: Zerker, Warspike, maybe phaseblade? Any reccomedations about the rest? I was thinking:
Shako
HoZ
Maras/Rare/Highlords
15% fire Ormus
Travs
Verdungo's
Bloodfist / Draculs
2x Rare rings / SoJs (if I need mana) / BKs (life) / Raven (CBF)
Everything socketed with p. diamonds (shield) / UM runes (rest) / fire facets (If I can max resistances).
Cheers,
Prexus
 
prexus said:
Fallen - Yes, I forgot that, that frees quite alot of skill points.
Reno - Ormus should be cool, the reason I don't think I'll use a phase blade is the low physical damage. Vengence imbues the physical damage, so I don't think that the extra -2FPA will make such a diffrence as will the added physical damage.
The build should now look like:
20 Vengence
20 Resist Fire
20 Salvation
1 Holy Shield
25-all skills conviction
rest divived equaly between resist cold / resist lightning / holy shield (if you want)
For this build to do well in PvP, what should I use: Zerker, Warspike, maybe phaseblade? Any reccomedations about the rest? I was thinking:
Shako
HoZ
Maras/Rare/Highlords
15% fire Ormus
Travs
Verdungo's
Bloodfist / Draculs
2x Rare rings / SoJs (if I need mana) / BKs (life) / Raven (CBF)
Everything socketed with p. diamonds (shield) / UM runes (rest) / fire facets (If I can max resistances).
Cheers,
Prexus
Click to expand...

If you are PvP, make sure you have DR and a good deal of FHR. For PvM this is not as important.

-Guillame's Face (elemental zealots should use CB)
-2/2 Seraph's Hymn (Mara's if resists are low)
-CoH (Archon Plate or Wyrmhide)
-HoJ (select weapon)
-HoZ (a very, VERY good shield)
-Dracul's Grasp (lifetap is a very, VERY good thing)
-2 x BK Bands (life > mana)
-Arachnid Mesh (for PvP Verdungo)
-Gorerider (elemental zealots should use CB)
-Annihilus
-10 x P.Combat

HoJ options (33 IAS on weapon)
-----------
-Caduceus (40 avg dmg) requires 110 IAS to reach 8fpa
-Warspike (39 avg dmg) requires 110 IAS to reach 8fpa
-Cryptic Sword (41 avg dmg) requires 110 IAS to reach 8fpa
-Phase Blade (33 avg dmg) requires 55 IAS to reach 8fpa
-Berserker Axe (47.5 avg dmg) requires 155 IAS to reach 8fpa

While you are correct in stating that the Vengeance skill adds damage based on the weapons BASE damage, the sacrifices made in gear selection in order to acheive the optimal frame rate with a Berserker Axe are prohibitive to the success of your proposed build.

Other weapons which are well-suited toward the creation of the HoJ rune word also require excessive amounts of IAS, while the Phase Blade requires only 55% (less the 33% provided by HoJ). It is adviseable to use a Phase Blade even though it looks as if it is inferior with respect to damage.

However, if you consider that with a Phase Blade you will very easily reach the 8fpa break point you will be dealing more damage over time than with the other weapons. This is because with 55% IAS, the Berserker Axe - as well as the other weapons mentioned - only reach the 10 fpa break point.
 
If we use a cadaceus that gives +3 vengence and +3 holy fire (if it works with HoJ) or +3 Conviction, will the 1 or 2 fpa still make such of a big diffrence?
For PvP, how about (stuff I could more easily afford):
Guillame's Face or Shako (Even tho I'm not an elemntal zealot, thus I will only have 1/2 the chance to trigger CB. Also, does DS duble the total damage or the weapon damage?)
Highlords (DS, all skills, IAS)
Guardian Angle (later on maybe valor or CoH)
HoJ Phase Blade / Caduceus
HoZ
Draculs
2x BK Bands
Verdungo's
Gore Rider or War travs
Anni
As much p. combat and p. offensive as I can get. Also life/mana/res/fhr SCs.
Cheers,
Prexus
 
prexus said:
If we use a cadaceus that gives +3 vengence and +3 holy fire (if it works with HoJ) or +3 Conviction, will the 1 or 2 fpa still make such of a big diffrence?
For PvP, how about (stuff I could more easily afford):
Guillame's Face or Shako (Even tho I'm not an elemntal zealot, thus I will only have 1/2 the chance to trigger CB. Also, does DS duble the total damage or the weapon damage?)
Highlords (DS, all skills, IAS)
Guardian Angle (later on maybe valor or CoH)
HoJ Phase Blade / Caduceus
HoZ
Draculs
2x BK Bands
Verdungo's
Gore Rider or War travs
Anni
As much p. combat and p. offensive as I can get. Also life/mana/res/fhr SCs.
Cheers,
Prexus
Click to expand...

A Caduceus would be an excellent choice for this build. It is a mix between speed and power. Having an average damage of 40 and a base speed of -10, it will reach the 8fpa break point for a normal attack with only 110% IAS. Since there is 33% IAS from the HoJ rune word, you will need an additional 77% or 80% IAS.

The HoJ rune word works in all 4 socket weapons; please refer to Rune Word section of the Arreat Summit page. Since you are looking at the Caduceus option, you will be happy to know that these spawn with paladin mods as they fall into the category of scepters. Thus, a Caduceus with +X to Holy Fire/+X to Holy Shield or any other combination you find to your liking would be an excellent selection.

In analysis of your gear you are lacking the optimal IAS to reach an 8fpa Vengeance. To be brief, this is a noticeable difference and the best selection of equipment would include a balance between DR, resists, speed, power and hit recovery. I have looked at your proposed gear selection and made a few minor adjustments.

-Perf. CoA (SHAEL + 15 IAS/15 Resist All) {15 IAS}
-Highlord's Wrath {20 IAS}
-Guardian Angel (15 IAS/15 Resist All) {15 IAS}
-Lavagout (Enchant + Holy Fire + Vengeance + Conviction = GOOD) {20 IAS}
-HoZ (15 IAS/15 Resist All) {15 IAS}/Lidless
-HoJ Caduceus/CTA Flail
-Perf. Verdungo
-2 x BK Band
-Eth. Trek's
-Annihilus Small Charm
-2 x 5% FHR Small Charm

This will net the required IAS, a good amount of resistances (max if all gear is perfect - and passive boost + GA = HIGH RESIST), 30% DR (adequate for PvM), 90% FHR (recovery in 4th frame), and a modest +10 all skills.

Recommendations for charms would be P.Combat GC (or Combat GC) as the boost from +skill items and 15 invested skill points would be sufficient for Conviction Aura. As for small charms, I would consider 100 pdsc's or small charms of vita (20 life). This would make your attack hurt anything...there is no such thing as an CI/FI/LI/XI/PI (where XI = poison immune and PI = physical immune).

You could even go as far as prebuffing with your CTA and Lidless, put in back into your stash and switch to a HoJ Bow to be a "Funky Fire Ranger"...or maybe just a big Ogre Maul or something HEAVY for the big damage.
 
The only problem with that is that I won't be able to afford CoAs any time soon, I will use this whole build only if I can gather anough wealth for the HoJ. What if I use:
Guilliames / Shako (15/15)
Highlords
GA (15/15)
HoZ (15/15)
HoJ
Verdungo's
BK & Raven
War Travs / Trek's
Anni (if I can get one)
fhr scs.
 
Are you worried about AR at all? Because the -defense from Conviction is pretty much useless in PvP. I think the best way to get AR without sacrificing speed (which you really need for this build) is to get some AR charms.
 
Or just using the angelic combo if I end up using a phase blade HoJ (which because of the AR problems seems like a good choice, feedback?)
Cheers,
Prexus
 
Why on earth would you use Guilleames when Deadly Strike doesn't add to Vengeance damage and you're not a zealot? Shako and CoA are your only two choices, Shako for PvM, CoA for PvP. If you want to make this PvP then Up'd GA/CoH/Up'd Shaft are your best choices of armour. Losing Mara's for Higlords really isn't good, yet another reason I stick with Phaseblade. Lavagouts aren't really that good, lvl 10 echnat only adds max ~46 fire damage, along with the dmg on the gloves they only really add 20ias and less than 100 fire damage. I still use them cuase I think it's owrth the Red Phaseblade look :lol:, but there are definatly better gloves in Dracs/Crafted/Bloodfist. Make sure too have CbF. I would use Travs + fhr charms over Treks any day.

And how exactly is Conviction not that good in PvP?

Still, I would never make an 8fpa PvP char, but that's what you should do if you plan too.
 
Okies, new and revised 8FPA avenger (in () is what I can scoket in there, in [] is optimal)
Shako (can't afford CoA) (15 ias / + res jewel)
Maras / Rare / Crafted ammy / Angelic (If I see need of AR)
GA (UP'd If I can get) (15 ias / res)
HoZ (p. diamond, 15 ias / res)
Phaseblade HoJ
Angelic / Raven
Bloodfist
Travs
lots of useful SCs.
How about that?
Cheers,
Prexus.
 
Why on EARTH do you need AR? One Ravenfrost, enough dex to max block, with lvl 25+ Vengeance, and lvl 25 Conviction is SO enough to hit anything. This is ignoring that HoJ had ITD for PvM. Even if you fell ever-so slightly short, I'd make the ar up in charms, not sacrifice my mara's/bk.

Also, you say you can't afford CoA, but you plan to use 3x 15IAS/15Res jewels? Have you ever tried acquiring one of those...

On a similar note, you have excessive IAS. You only need 54 to hit the bp, that's only 21 more needs with HoJ's inherent 33IAS. Bloodfist and one 15IAS/15Res jewel would be enough.
 
Rane- said:
Why on earth would you use Guilleames when Deadly Strike doesn't add to Vengeance damage and you're not a zealot? Shako and CoA are your only two choices, Shako for PvM, CoA for PvP. If you want to make this PvP then Up'd GA/CoH/Up'd Shaft are your best choices of armour. Losing Mara's for Higlords really isn't good, yet another reason I stick with Phaseblade. Lavagouts aren't really that good, lvl 10 echnat only adds max ~46 fire damage, along with the dmg on the gloves they only really add 20ias and less than 100 fire damage. I still use them cuase I think it's owrth the Red Phaseblade look :lol:, but there are definatly better gloves in Dracs/Crafted/Bloodfist. Make sure too have CbF. I would use Travs + fhr charms over Treks any day.

And how exactly is Conviction not that good in PvP?

Still, I would never make an 8fpa PvP char, but that's what you should do if you plan too.
Click to expand...

Guillame's Face provides more than just Deadly Strike. It provides Crushing Blow. If he uses Crushing Blow with high elemental damage and a high level Conviction Aura, he will undoubtedly breeze through the entire game with ease.

Think again what Enchant provides beyond the minimal damage. Level 10 Enchant (cast very often on these gloves) will provide a 101% boost to AR for 6 minutes. This is indeed useful.
 
Rane- said:
Why on EARTH do you need AR? One Ravenfrost, enough dex to max block, with lvl 25+ Vengeance, and lvl 25 Conviction is SO enough to hit anything. This is ignoring that HoJ had ITD for PvM. Even if you fell ever-so slightly short, I'd make the ar up in charms, not sacrifice my mara's/bk.

Also, you say you can't afford CoA, but you plan to use 3x 15IAS/15Res jewels? Have you ever tried acquiring one of those...

On a similar note, you have excessive IAS. You only need 54 to hit the bp, that's only 21 more needs with HoJ's inherent 33IAS. Bloodfist and one 15IAS/15Res jewel would be enough.
Click to expand...

55% according to the WSM Calculator (German). I believe he based this on a Caduceus rather than Phase Blade after making gear adjustments.
 
Euro - You got it right, I did a mistake - I put in enough IAS for Caddy but I plan on using a phaser (easier to attack faster, and less gear sacrifises). Now I also figured out I'll use i for PvM for some time, but then move to PvP so here is my new gear idea:
HoJ Phaseblase
HoZ
Shako / Guillliames (I'll expirament with the CB and FHR vs life/mana/skills)
GA (preferably 15/15)
Lavagouts (figures out I could pre buff by going to a random spot and killing monsters with zeal until it triggers)
2x BK
Maras / Rare / Craftd
Verdungo's
War Travs (I'll get about +1500% of this damage just from vengnece, before conviction)
With AR/life/mana/fhr/fr/w/res charms and of course skilelrs.
Situational gear:
Ravens
Dwarf Stars
TGods
Wisps (maybe)
(realy extreme) 40s ~40 res all 4 p. saph shield for those pesky blizz sorcs
As for skills:
20 Vengence
20 Resist Fire
20 Salvation
15 Conviction (even less, depending of final gear)
1 Holy Shield, 1 Vigor, 1 Meditation, 1 Redemption
Should the rest go in holy shield (more def for PvP) or Resist Lightning / Resist Cold for the extra damage?
Cheers,
Prexus
 
prexus said:
Euro - You got it right, I did a mistake - I put in enough IAS for Caddy but I plan on using a phaser (easier to attack faster, and less gear sacrifises). Now I also figured out I'll use i for PvM for some time, but then move to PvP so here is my new gear idea:
HoJ Phaseblase
HoZ
Shako / Guillliames (I'll expirament with the CB and FHR vs life/mana/skills)
GA (preferably 15/15)
Lavagouts (figures out I could pre buff by going to a random spot and killing monsters with zeal until it triggers)
2x BK
Maras / Rare / Craftd
Verdungo's
War Travs (I'll get about +1500% of this damage just from vengnece, before conviction)
With AR/life/mana/fhr/fr/w/res charms and of course skilelrs.
Situational gear:
Ravens
Dwarf Stars
TGods
Wisps (maybe)
(realy extreme) 40s ~40 res all 4 p. saph shield for those pesky blizz sorcs
As for skills:
20 Vengence
20 Resist Fire
20 Salvation
15 Conviction (even less, depending of final gear)
1 Holy Shield, 1 Vigor, 1 Meditation, 1 Redemption
Should the rest go in holy shield (more def for PvP) or Resist Lightning / Resist Cold for the extra damage?
Cheers,
Prexus
Click to expand...

Looks good...except I would change the Lavagouts out for Magnus' Skin. The Enchant provided by these gloves is useful - but waiting for it to happen is "silly". Get a Demonlimb and cast a lvl 23 Enchant on yourself. It will boost your AR by a lot more and will last for 10 minutes rather than 6.
 
Why Magnus'? 100ar? Why not use LoH (for PvM) or Lavagouts for the +fire damage that will become much more with conviction figures out?
Cheers,
Prexus
 
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