Fend

Coldfire

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Aug 24, 2006
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Fend

I know that Fend is bugged but if one didn't put any points into D/E/A wouldn't it work correctly then? With some lightning or perhaps Jab as backup skills, and still some points into CS... The biggest drawback is obviously the inablity to use decoy/valk but do you think the build is basically reasonable?

I'm just trying to look for some different builds that don't fit the cookie cutters that are everywhere
 
I know that Fend is bugged but if one didn't put any points into D/E/A wouldn't it work correctly then? With some lightning or perhaps Jab as backup skills, and still some points into CS... The biggest drawback is obviously the inablity to use decoy/valk but do you think the build is basically reasonable?

I'm just trying to look for some different builds that don't fit the cookie cutters that are everywhere
Yes, avoiding points in D/A/E will "fix" fend. As an added bonus, you can, in fact, still get a Decoy (which is good, because with no Valk she'll be a lifesaver).

The two traditional methods of building a Fender is to either skip D/A/E, max Decoy, and use her as your only meat shield... or else to put 1 in D/A/E, get a solid Valk *and* Decoy, and then cast them both and fend over their shoulders (so enemies can't attack you behind the Valk/Decoy). If enemies aren't attacking, then you aren't dodging... and if you aren't dodging, then you aren't whiffing.

Another, slightly less traditional method of Fender construction is to get a Defiance Merc and some high-defense gear and shoot for ridiculous defense values. It's much harder for a Zon without skills like Shout, Iron Skin, or Holy Shield, but it's still possible. Defense comes before Dodge, so if enemies have a 5% chance to hit you and you have a 100% chance to dodge, you'll still only be dodging 5% of the time (which is deemed an acceptably low percentage).

I've known people who were big fans of both methods. From what I hear, either will work.



 
http://www.purediablo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=460019&highlight=mellezon

first of all if you make a fender using javelins + shield you won't have any problem surviving. You'll be almost (zealots do not have to put as many points in dex thanks to holy shield, but your points in dex will help you get higher damage and AR) as durable as a zealot.

If you decide to go with a spear then there is one more way - high damage + life leech

thats the way I always went.if you go with something like upped, shaeled Lycanders Flank, with Tals Mask and String of Ears while hitting 5 frame fend breakpoint, youll practicaly never die during the fight... you might die before it though...:p I had much problems with ranged attackers this way, thats why I decided to use titans + shield on switch. The bane of such spearazons are skeleton archers...they're unleechable and hit hard from a distance. Draculs Grasp will help you imensly against all kinds of enemies. With a well built fender you can stand in the middle of listers pack tanking them - you don't need decoy, or valc, or even merc.
you can also solo uber tristram with a very cheap gear, although smiters are of course better at this...
 
fend is multi-target only attack.
against a single target you'd end up with a normal attack speed, bonus ed and ar attack. it's simply worse then jab against single targets, so it wouldn't make sense using fend in pvp.

fend works like that:
3 enemies are in the range of amas weapon
amazon player clicks with fend on one of the enemies
this enemy gets hit with a normal attack animation(slower)
another enemy gets hit with fend animation(fast)
last enemy gets hit with fend animation(fast)

generalising:
during "fend cycle" amazon attacks once each enemy in range of her weapon. The first enemy gets attacked with normal attack animation, the rest with fend attack animations.

so against a single enemy you'll end up using only normal attack aniamation.
 
I have read that fend is bugged, and I believe that it really is.

But there has always been this nagging thought in my head about it:

In reality, if I were flipping and spinning a spear/javelin/pike around rapidly attacking multiple targets, and I were clobbered really hard after say the second hit. . .I would probably miss the remainder of the attacks simply because I was thrown off my rhythm. My attack would be interrupted big time.
So I think that this isn't a bug in that the attacks miss (Fend is not an auto-hit skill is it?) as much as it's a bug because the animation keeps playing the missed hits. It should stop playing the attack animation altogether. I whiff with my paladins Zeal all the time, but I don't consider it a Zeal-bug. I think Fend and Zeal work as they were intended to. It gives you a 'chance' to hit multiple targets with one attack.

I would very much like to have someone help me understand the nature of the bug. I have read multiple threads on the subject. . .I just don't get how it's a bug.

Frostburn has written alot on this- hopefully he can chime in and help me understand.
 
the bug happens not when you get hit, but when you dodge... while you could say that "dodge'ing" makes go off balance and miss other targets, a normal human would simply stop attacking after being thrown off balance. If a person would keep attacking(and missing) after such incident I'd say he is dumb(therefore bugged in a way:tongue: )

I played around 10 fendazons up till now, and Im currently in a prcess of making my first zealot. I must say fendazons without D/A/E whiffed a lot less often then my zealot does, but that may be because of higher range(my zealot only used range 1 and 2 weapons)

Ive read a lot of statements about fend bug and fend made by many people, and I found lot's of them to be false. For example:
-lots of people say fend is interruptable because they saw blocking/dodge/hit recovery happen in the middle of fend
-lots of people say blocking causes fend to whiff
-lots of people say hit recovery causes fend to whiff
I found two first to be false...
The only one Im not sure about is the last one. Although I one-click-killed Listers pack enough times to be sure that hit recovery from their attack does not cause whiffing(the same about charge attack of those zombies in pindle's garden) it may be that they do not cause hit recovery if you can't be knocked back, and you can't be knocked back while fending. I also know that occasional whiffing happens with no apparent reason(veeeery rarely, so it's not an issue).

Conclusions drawn from results of my tests:

let's make some definitions first:
Fend Attack - a serie of fend cycles. It starts with your pressing the mouse button, and ends with the last cycle initiated by the same click(if you simply click once it's a single cycle, if you click&hold it consists of multiple cycles)
Fend Cycle - a serie of Fend Strikes consisting of one strike for each target in amazons weapon range. The first strike uses normal attack animation, all other uses fend animations
Fend Strike - a single amazons attemp to strike an enemy using fend skill

my conclusions:
D/A/E causes whiffing
sometimes whiffing happens because of other, unknown reasons
Blocking do not cause whiffing

When whiffing happens it makes the rest of the fend attack(note - not fend cycle!) miss all fend strikes. That means you have to release your mouse button and initiate next fend attack in order to start hitting again(thats why clicking once for each cycle is suggested in strategy compendium - it makes your whiffs <= one cycle).

Explanation for whiffing causing the rest of fend attack to become interrutable is quite simple. If during your fend attack, enemy causes you to go into D/A/E animation server notes this as an and of your fend attack, but client part do not know it. Client will think you're still in the middle of it - thats why it won't accept any new orders from you, beside continouing fend attack(holding mouse button). If a monster will hit you again, and for example you will block this attack, the server(he thought your amazon does nothing at the moment) will tell the client to show blocking animation, so the client will show it stopping your fend attack.

one more interesting thing I found out is that only the first fend strike of a fend attack(again, note - not cycle) is interruptable(always). I don't know what causes it.
 
Sonia_HCI, II, and III experiences...

I have never fended with a shield, so I don't know about whiffing after a block animation. By "whiffing" I mean no attacks hitting even though I continue to poke (and she almost always hit with high Penetrate all other times). I did notice whiffing with D/A/E on my first fender, so I believe it does stop the rest of the attacks in the cycle to miss. I never noticed whiffing on hit recovery because I always tried to keep my HP high enough so as not to get into the animation. I lost my 3 HC fenders to ranged and elemental attacks (Trapped stairs with HF aura boss and Ancients FE twice - I never seem to learn).

As for zeal vs fend whiffing, I feel that fend whiffing is worse because the successive attacks are usually a couple of frames slower than zeal, particularly with fanazealots, and those frames can add up with up to 7 extra attacks per attack cycle.

Yeah, I'm still bitter about the Deeds...

DudSpud
 
http://www.purediablo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=460019&highlight=mellezon

first of all if you make a fender using javelins + shield you won't have any problem surviving. You'll be almost (zealots do not have to put as many points in dex thanks to holy shield, but your points in dex will help you get higher damage and AR) as durable as a zealot.

If you decide to go with a spear then there is one more way - high damage + life leech

thats the way I always went.if you go with something like upped, shaeled Lycanders Flank, with Tals Mask and String of Ears while hitting 5 frame fend breakpoint, youll practicaly never die during the fight... you might die before it though...:p I had much problems with ranged attackers this way, thats why I decided to use titans + shield on switch. The bane of such spearazons are skeleton archers...they're unleechable and hit hard from a distance. Draculs Grasp will help you imensly against all kinds of enemies. With a well built fender you can stand in the middle of listers pack tanking them - you don't need decoy, or valc, or even merc.
you can also solo uber tristram with a very cheap gear, although smiters are of course better at this...

Thanks specifically for that link, I did search the forum but couldn't find any Fend based builds (figured there were none due to the bug) And thanks all others for the rest of the info, I'm not sure but I may give this build a shot, just for something different if nothing else



 
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