Fact All Elemental Characters Should Know!

[IliketoNARR]

Fact All Elemental Characters Should Know!

I don't know if anyone has ever done this but I've been with the question of just how effective reduce resist is as compared with increase damage for elemental attacks. So I took the moster beta test files (since I'm not sure where to get the new ones) and I used excel to average all the individual resists together. I also got rid of the immunes so this applies to all hell creatures that aren't immune to the specified element. I also through in damage resist and magic resist for the hell of it. Check it out.

Average Enemy Resistance in Hell:

Lightning:15.558%
Fire:18.249%
Cold:19.914%
Poison:19.259%
Magic:6.704% (GO BONEMANCERS!)
Physical Damage:22.354%


If you didn't realize this has relevance to the choice between increase elemental damage and lower resist when choosing equipment--say in the case of Rainbow Facets. So--even though it doesn't show on your character screen under damage--It is better to have lower resist mods than increase damage (percent for percent) up to the specified number.

If this isn't clear enough let give you an example. Say you had a Poison Necro. And you didn't have any lower resist gear and you were choosing between a 3LR/5ID poison facet and a 5LR/3ID poison facet. It would be more advantageous to use the one that has 5 Lower Resist because that, in fact, would be raising you average damage by 6.2% + the 3 Increase Damage as apposed to 3.7% + the 5 increase damage. 9.2% vs. 8.7%! Not that profound I suppose but the point is until your lower resistance totals more than the above numbers, lower resist is still superior to Increase Damage.

If anybody knows where to find the text files for the current version of Diablo could you tell me so that I can update the info?

 

[Jedi]

it also depends which areas are attractive to kill monsters once u are through all difficulties once.

i have checked the resistance of monsters for those areas i want to play for experience. TC85,Diablo and Baal Runs i cam to the conclusion that an avg cold mastery of 135%( with plus items) is ok and the rest points would be better spend in damage synergies instead of max cold mastery.

for xample baal run hell concerning cold resistance:

1 Lorenzo 0
2 Achmel 66 (the most in game)
3 Bartuc 0
4 Ventor 0
5 Lister 50
6 Baal 50

though i do like 150% CM too

i am not familir with moster beta testfiles. maybe www.d2data.net helps u with monsterresi for 1.10

regards Jedi

edit:
well, 5% more damage from a faccet or 5% lower resi seems to be the same for me. monster negative resi cap is -100%.

 

[mestre]

Unlike other characters cold sorceresses would preffer damage enhancement over lower resistance gear as they already have a lower resistance skill, that is, cold mastery. That also explains why a sorc using Doom is a supreme waste. Not alone you use runes that are much more expensive than a Fathom and waste all the cool melee mods it has you end up doing less damaga than with the Fathom and enemy's resistances are already diminished by the cold mastery.

Paladins with FoH would also preffer damage enhancement over lower resistance items as they have the convinction aura. FoH is weak anyway, so cold sorcs are much more an issue. One shouldn't make a FoH paladin unless Blizzard finally fix them, anyway.

 

[IliketoNARR]

Good point guys. But, yes, I did mean that this applies on average through out all of hell difficulty. If you play monotonously and only kill a very few kinds of enemies, it would be more advantageous to see what exactly your specified enemy resist are.

Also, another good point was raised. Averger pallies, FoH pallies, Cold Sorcs, and Poison necros all benefit more from increased damage than lower resist considering they already have skills that lower resist, as do any character who play with paladins using conviction or anyone using a lower resist wand.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong but the way I see it is that Increase Damage from gear for fire and lightning sorcs is undercut because of their mastery. Like take a Fire sorc dealing 1000 damage after her 100% increase damage from fire mastery. Adding a 5% ID fire facet wouldn't raise total damage to 1050 but it would stack with fire mastery and give you 105% increase damage and thus 1025 damage instead.

 

[Manowar[COWA]]

I dont think the Sorcs cold mastery REMOVES immunities. Where a lower resist jewel would get the ball rolling. IE: Monster has 125 res cold, therefor gets the immune to cold tag. You have 6 5lr jewels in assorted places. Now the monster has 95 res cold, where your mastery can now drop it to the negitives.

 

[IliketoNARR]

I dont think the Sorcs cold mastery REMOVES immunities. Where a lower resist jewel would get the ball rolling. IE: Monster has 125 res cold, therefor gets the immune to cold tag. You have 6 5lr jewels in assorted places. Now the monster has 95 res cold, where your mastery can now drop it to the negitives.

Actually I was under the impression that the only thing that could break immunities was conviction and lower resist (the curse). And the effectiveness of those things is reduced to 1/4 until the immunity is broked so if it had 125 cold resist, it would require -100% resist from conviction or lower resist (the curse).

 

[Merick1]

Actually I was under the impression that the only thing that could break immunities was conviction and lower resist (the curse). And the effectiveness of those things is reduced to 1/4 until the immunity is broked so if it had 125 cold resist, it would require -100% resist from conviction or lower resist (the curse).

This is true. Amp and decrep break immunities too, but -res% mods from items and cold mastery don't break immunity. And it's 1/5th effectiveness.

 

[Jerkazoid]

I dont think the Sorcs cold mastery REMOVES immunities. Where a lower resist jewel would get the ball rolling.

nope,,, its the same
even the -res on items wont break immunities

only LW and conviction works on immunes.. once broken however, -res will start to work.

 

[Booster_terik]

only LW and conviction works on immunes.. once broken however, -res will start to work.

this is correct, in open i edited my facets to do -155 to enemy res and even with three of them the res does not break. i know open is not thea same as closed bnet but its just an example.

 

[mestre]

Also, correct me if I'm wrong but the way I see it is that Increase Damage from gear for fire and lightning sorcs is undercut because of their mastery. Like take a Fire sorc dealing 1000 damage after her 100% increase damage from fire mastery. Adding a 5% ID fire facet wouldn't raise total damage to 1050 but it would stack with fire mastery and give you 105% increase damage and thus 1025 damage instead.

I do not know. The items usualy read "To Fire/Cold/Lightning Skill Damage." The explanation for fire mastery reads "increases the damage done by your fire spells." If the increased damage become the spell damage all will be enhnaced. In the end it depends on how they implemented it, that is, we have to test and see how it works.

Unfortunately I do not have fire sorcs, so it's impossible that I do it.

 

[sangfagel]

I do not know. The items usualy read "To Fire/Cold/Lightning Skill Damage." The explanation for fire mastery reads "increases the damage done by your fire spells." If the increased damage become the spell damage all will be enhnaced. In the end it depends on how they implemented it, that is, we have to test and see how it works.

Unfortunately I do not have fire sorcs, so it's impossible that I do it.

I belive that fire mastery and +%fire dmg from facets works in the same way:
These %efdmg adds and applies on a synergized skill fdmg (not a base skill).
For instance: If you have FB dmg 1000 (with synergies from Meteor and F Bolt)
+ 100% f dmg from Fire Mastery + 10% f dmg from 2 facets your final FB dmg will be 2100.

 

[Liessa Wyrmbane]

I belive that fire mastery and +%fire dmg from facets works in the same way:
These %efdmg adds and applies on a synergized skill fdmg (not a base skill).
For instance: If you have FB dmg 1000 (with synergies from Meteor and F Bolt)
+ 100% f dmg from Fire Mastery + 10% f dmg from 2 facets your final FB dmg will be 2100.

That assumption is correct.

 

[helvete1]

I don't get all this... yet. But what about this example:

A necromancer with full TO set and full synergized poison nova (about 6000 damage per nova) runs the river of flame. The only poison immunes are Blood Maggots and their no-exp kids.
With a 60% lower resist curse, the Blood maggot is still immune, but her kids' immunity will break. (So far, everything is based on my own testing).

This means, Blood maggots must have a poison resist of more than 100 + 60/5 = more than 112% (or else 60% lower resist would have broken it).

This also means, bloody kids must have a poison resist somewhere between 111% and 100% (else they would still be immune after lower resist, or not immune in the first place)

However, the TO set provides -25% enemy poison resist.

1 a) Will this start to work the moment immunity is broken?
b) Will this work at 100% (meaning -25%) or at 20% (meaing -5%)

2 Say pain-in-the-*** bloody maggot young have 110% poison resist, and the necromancer have a (theoretical) lower resist of 80%
Will lower resist
a) "burn" 50% in breaking the immunity (110 - 10)*5 and then continue at normal efficciency so that resist after lower resist (but before items) will be 70% or
b) Work at 1/5 the whole time, which leaves us with a 90% resistance (also before items).

3 Add in items. -25% from the shield, -40% from deaths web, and -15% from facets, for a total of -80% to enemy poison resist.
a) Does this bonus take 100% effect on enemies with broken immunities?
b) The river of flame has enemies without immunity to poison. After lower resist, their poison resist is likely negative. Will this -80% have any effect now? (as in pushing enemy resist further below zero).

I'd love to know these things for sure, since I've been working secretly on a "novamancer guide". It would be very nice to include this example as part of the guide.

ANY help appriciated. (even correction of spelling; english is not my first language)

 

[IliketoNARR]

I basically always just went under the assumption of everything you just said, but I'm not 100% sure and would like to know as well.

 

[sangfagel]

3 Add in items. -25% from the shield, -40% from deaths web, and -15% from facets, for a total of -80% to enemy poison resist.
a) Does this bonus take 100% effect on enemies with broken immunities?

I am preatty sure it does.

b) The river of flame has enemies without immunity to poison. After lower resist, their poison resist is likely negative. Will this -80% have any effect now? (as in pushing enemy resist further below zero).

You can lower their resists to -100% but not more. In case of non-immunes effects of different lower-resists-sources stacks.

 

[Singollo]

-X% from itms works like cold mastery and isnt the same as lower resist and conviction as these can break immunes. poison immune are broken with lower reist and the -25% on TO with 3 items, deaths web, and poison facet become a must have. you can break the immune and the other type of -x% resist lower the reist w/o the 1/5 effectiveness, can take say a monster whos immuneity was broken from 100% to 82% (blood maggot young) and te -25% resist take that to 57%. this is what makes death web for thoes who have used one so powerful, it has -40%-50% resist witch is a big help with killing them once poison immune monsters or even non imune as lower resist starts to lvl off after 60%, you can then cast on a monster with no poison imunne it still has -60% poison resist and the -40%+ of deaths web or the -25% on TO sield(3 item) can still be a big help.

so yes the -x% reist found on items is a big help on once immune monsters or even non immunes, this is the same as ed to whatever elemental dmg or poison skills, but monsters can only hav -100% resist so if you are pvm and have say maxed cold mastery or nice lvl mastery, the extra -x% resist is usless and the +x%ed is better. the conviction caps at -150% resist nd if the monster has 51% resist or more the -x% on items is still needed.

so all n all you need both +x%ed and -x% reist pending on withch monster your talking about, or witch skills. the +x%ed to witch ever skill element is just as needed as the -x% on all characters cuz only sorc has +x%ed from mastery witch the -x% is just added to, so i find the -x% and +x%ed on them facets are both just as good

 

[helvete1]

i find the -x% and +x%ed on them facets are both just as good

Yeah, And especially for necromancers, since there is no poison mastery, and both mods will be of great help it seems.

Thx, guys, I think I now know what I need to finish the novamancer guide. (I love that build, and it's a shame that very few people seem to use it)

 

[Singollo]

Yeah, And especially for necromancers, since there is no poison mastery, and both mods will be of great help it seems.

Thx, guys, I think I now know what I need to finish the novamancer guide. (I love that build, and it's a shame that very few people seem to use it)

yeah, with -x% resist and +x%ed poison nova can be a destructive skill. i use a poison/summoner to run the pit, his 8000 poison dmg nova can kill full area of monsters in few casts, used with CE its mass overkill. this skill can be as powerful or maybe even more powerful then the hammerdins hammers.

but i think its the fact is takes a lot of this -x% resist and +x%ed to make poison nova as good as it can be, not that its not usful w/o. many poison and bone skill charms are needed to hit these high #s and deaths web and bone and poison charms are hard to get for the avg joe, and this is why we dont see many