Everything comes in Pairs tournament IDEA/interest

[Vang]

Everything comes in Pairs tournament IDEA/interest

Everything comes in Pairs tournament IDEA.


So what is everything comes in pairs? A simple tournament that requires two of nearly everything to be used.

Find that nice Unique Axe? To bad, you haven't found it a friend yet.
Like using Battle Orders? Find it a friend while your at it in the Warcry tree.
You like raising your Strength? Better find it a friend and keep them both equal.


So how does this tournament work? You work in pairs with nearly everything in the game.

EQUIPMENT:

You have ten equipment slots(or 9 if two handed weapon) and everything must be in a pair. The only Slots that are required to be the same are the weapon slot(s) and switch. They count as a pair.

Example Given:
Helm and Armor: Magical
Ring and Gloves: Rare
Belt and Boots: Normal
Amulet and Ring: Magical
Weapon(s)/shield and Switch: 2handed Runeword or Runeword Weapon/Runeword shield.

STATS:
Vitality, Strength, Dex, and Energy follow the same rules. Chose two groups and each must have the BASE being equal with each other.

Example:
Vit/STR: Base 80
Enr/Dex: Base 40

SKILLS:

Each skill tree you choose two abilities. Each ability must be kept equal with each other and each must have a minimum of TEN to procede to place 11-20 points in any of the skill trees. *BASE only, +skills do not count*

Example:

Paladin:

Zeal/Holy Bolt: 5 each
Fire Aura/Sanctuary: 10 each
Prayer/Resist Fire: 8 Each

To raise higher than 10 skills need to look like this:

Zeal/Holy Bolt: 10 each
Fire Aura/Sanctuary: 16 each
Prayer/Resist Fire: 10 each

CHARMS:
A pair of each to use, no limit to size or total quantity.

Examples:

6 Small Charms
2 Grand Charms
0 Large Charms

2 Small Charms
4 Grand Charms
6 Large charms

------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok, any questions on how it the tournament works? Does something need further clarification?

 

[Morathi1]

Re: Everything comes in Pairs tournament IDEA/interest

Sounds interesting :thumbup:!

Few things.

1- With the equipment, i would suggest something like:
Example Given:
Helm and Armor: Unique
Ring and Gloves: Rare
Belt and Boots: Normal
Amulet and Ring: Magical
Weapon(s)/shield and Switch: 2handed Runeword or Runeword Weapon/Runeword shield.
Merc: Set

I think something like that could work, and i think it would be cool if the player gets to decide how he pairs them up? So for example one player might choose Sets for Helms and Armor, while another player might choose Runewords.

2- Stats look good!

3- With skills i have a few question.

*Lets say you pick Critical Strike and Valk for example (just to pick a level 1 and 30 skill together as a pair). How would this work? Since they have to be a pair does that mean once i put a point into Critical Strike i can't place anymore until i place my first point into Valk?
*What happens to the skills that you don't pair?
*Can they be pumped for synergy purposes?
*Can they be used at all, or are they completely banned?

Looks like a really cool idea though and something rather new. I will most likely participate in this one! :nod:.

 

[jdkerr]

Re: Everything comes in Pairs tournament IDEA/interest

i think it would be cool if the player gets to decide how he pairs them up?

Before starting or as s/he goes along? And once s/he chooses, can the choice be altered later in the game (e.g., I choose and use sets for helm/armor, but I find a cool pair of set gloves, so I switch helm/armor to rares and make gloves/ring sets).

 

[Morathi1]

Re: Everything comes in Pairs tournament IDEA/interest

Before starting or as s/he goes along? And once s/he chooses, can the choice be altered later in the game (e.g., I choose and use sets for helm/armor, but I find a cool pair of set gloves, so I switch helm/armor to rares and make gloves/ring sets).

No before starting.

When a player enters the tournament he/she must clearly state how they are going to pair their equipment. Once they state this, they cannot change their minds once they begin progress. So if a player picks Uniques for Helm/Armor, he/sher can only use Uniques for those 2 slots.

I think that would be much better.

Of course we should hear what Vang has to say about this.

Just my 2cents :whistling:.

 

[Vang]

Re: Everything comes in Pairs tournament IDEA/interest

Morathi, not a bad idea, but I think picking before hand is a bit to restrictive. Not to mention it favors casters, something I tend to shy away from as they are less reliant on gear.

Skills:

No pumping for synergies. You can put pre-reqs only. You just don't have enough points to max 6 skills.

And yes, if you choose Critical Strike and Valk, you can place 1 point to Critical Strike until you are able to equally spread them out once you hit level 30.

Sidenote just for that odd question clarification: You can have 1 in Critical Strike and 2 in Valk, then your next in Critical Strike, you do not have to wait until you can place 1 in each with your skill points.

And to add further clarification to the Equipment classes it would be:

White items(plain, socketed, as well as Low/Superior quality)
Magical
Set
Rare
Unique
Crafted
Runewords

 

[Morathi1]

Re: Everything comes in Pairs tournament IDEA/interest

How is picking before hand too restrictive?

IMO it actually allows you to better plan your character. By picking your pairs before you start, you allow for certain strategies to take place. For example if i choose to be a Bowazon, i would want to set my weapon to either Rare/Unique. Otherwise if i plan on being a Bowazon and end up with white item weapons, i am screwed!

Also i don't think it favours anyone. Its your choice how you choose to pair your equipment. A melee character can opt for stronger weapons, so can choose Runewords/Uniques/Rares. A Caster can choose to have Magical weapons in hope of more of a chance for staff mods. Its an even playing field really...

Anyway how would you end up pairing equipment if it is not set in place before you begin? Would you get to choose as you go? Can you alter it if you wish? How would it work?

 

[UllaV]

Re: Everything comes in Pairs tournament IDEA/interest

There was a tourney that had you pair your equipment from categories.

I think it died off for low participation syndrome.

Ulla

 

[Vang]

Re: Everything comes in Pairs tournament IDEA/interest

How is picking before hand too restrictive?

IMO it actually allows you to better plan your character. By picking your pairs before you start, you allow for certain strategies to take place. For example if i choose to be a Bowazon, i would want to set my weapon to either Rare/Unique. Otherwise if i plan on being a Bowazon and end up with white item weapons, i am screwed!

Also i don't think it favours anyone. Its your choice how you choose to pair your equipment. A melee character can opt for stronger weapons, so can choose Runewords/Uniques/Rares. A Caster can choose to have Magical weapons in hope of more of a chance for staff mods. Its an even playing field really...

Anyway how would you end up pairing equipment if it is not set in place before you begin? Would you get to choose as you go? Can you alter it if you wish? How would it work?

First, I want the skills/stat pair limitation to be the hard part of this tournament, not the equipment. Your already limited by the single pass lucky factor and I don't want it limited further really.

Now if you pick before hand for melee, what weapon do you pick? Magical? Rare? Unique? Runeword? Remember the weapon slots on both switches have to be the same type. I can tell you why you would never choose Unique, crafted, runeword, or set as you might never get anything good. (If we want to further debate this we can look at our old stashes of tournament characters and see how often sets and uniques will drop as well as additional runes to be used effectively as weapons)

So effectively unless I feel like taking a chance, all slots are either Magical or Rare as I know those will come, this goes against the spirit of the tournament and adds more difficulty than needs be. I understand what your saying as pairing them up to a certain quality level, but those have been done before and I haven't enjoyed them personally.

How would it work? Switch as you play.

Example:

I have:

Set Helm/Gloves
Normal Armor/Boots

Andy dies and drops me a Set Armor and a Rare gloves and boots, I switch the Armor to Set and the gloves and boots to rare quality.

Now, Morathi, I would not be against adding a point bonus, say +20 points to someone that goes that route and decides on all slots before hand, some people want more challenge :thumbup:

Now I haven't covered the mercenary as I'm really debating on how to handle it. On one hand they can only carry 3 items. So do we make them all three be the same or do we force an Act3 mercenary on people who can then have four slots to make pairs. Its an interesting choice, but I see more play value in all allowing both.

 

[pepitosari]

Re: Everything comes in Pairs tournament IDEA/interest

I surely would like to join such a tournament, no matter if we had to chose berforehand or as we go... though chosing beforehand would make it really difficult... principally for melee builds...

 

[Quickdeath]

Re: Everything comes in Pairs tournament IDEA/interest

Morathi, if we had to pick the level of pairs before hand, I think I would pick all pairs to be rare.

Rare items drop freuqently enough that you would not be weaponless long and the quality of items versus "assurance of supply" is probably optimum for all items.

Vang, this is interesting -it has limits on both items and skills. Can you use skills that are 1-point wonders simply at the 1-point level? Like Amp Damage or Beserk, Decoy, or Bone Armor.... etc. ?

I also wonder if the skill rules would favor the classes for which character builds naturally want to use all three skill trees: such as Paladins and Barbs. Its a bit tough on Amazons who will need to invest in both javelins/spears and bows, and on Sorcs.

Barbs: Everyone will be Shout, BO, a Mastery and Iron Skin or Natural Resistance and two combat skills of one's choice.

Pallys: Hammerdins, frost or Light zealots, or avengers or ....

Sorc: Trielementalist?

 

[Vang]

Re: Everything comes in Pairs tournament IDEA/interest

Vang, this is interesting -it has limits on both items and skills. Can you use skills that are 1-point wonders simply at the 1-point level? Like Amp Damage or Beserk, Decoy, or Bone Armor.... etc. ?

No you won't be able to. Now you can raise that tree of skills last, but sooner or later all six skills will be at a minimum of 10.

Does the skill 2 of each skill give an advantage to certain builds? Certainly. But then factor in the Stat point limitation and you pretty much equal everything out. Your not going to have enough Dex for max block, strength to wear all your equipment, and life to stay a live and the points spent in Energy(if many if you keep the other ability at its base or vice-versa)

Just for a couple builds I was thinking of without what I would do with stats:

Necromancer: Skeleton Mastery/Skeletal Mage, Dim Vision or Decrep/Lower Resist, and Bone Wall/Corpse Explosion

Barbarian: Nat Resist/Weapon, Warcry/Battle Orders, Leap Attack/Zerk or Whirlwind.

Sorceress: Firewall/Fire Mastery, Glacial Spike/Blizzard, Charged Bolt/Teleport

 

[Vang]

Re: Everything comes in Pairs tournament IDEA/interest

FINAL REVISIONS before making it a tournament.

Everything comes in Pairs tournament.


So what is everything comes in pairs? A simple tournament that requires two of nearly everything to be used.

Find that nice Unique Axe? To bad, you haven't found it a friend yet.
Like using Battle Orders? Find it a friend while your at it in the Warcry tree.
You like raising your Strength? Better find it a friend and keep them both equal.

BASIC RULES:

• Must choose SKILLS and STAT pairs before starting, optionally equipment pairs as well if you want the bonus points.
• Your character must be HC although it if you cant you may go SC, but a SC death disqualifies the character from further participation.
• If your character dies, you may re-enter with another character. There is no limit to this rule, you may re-enter as many times as you wish.
• Players can use versions from 1.10+
• Rune Word Mod part of as FAM maybe used(as well as the colour portions too)
• Any /players setting is allowed, and may be changed at will.
• Single pass only (no re running of act bosses and areas).
• You may return to previous acts and difficulties, however you may not leave town.
• Atma may be used as an extended stash
• Quests and waypoints add to your point total, but are still optional

SCORING:

• 1 point for each WP gathered (including Rogue camp)
• 2 points for each quest completed
• -1 point for each character level gained ( meaning your characters level).
• 15 point bonus for selecting equipment types before start of game

So how does this tournament work? You work in pairs with nearly everything in the game.

EQUIPMENT:

You have eight equipment slots not counting the weapon slots and switch. These four pairs can be of any type of quality, including the same as another one. Your weapon switches are a pair, you have to have the same quality of items equipped on each switch regardless of 1 or 2handed.

Quality levels for the tournament:

Normal: Plain items with or without: Ethereal, socketed, superior or low quality
Magical
Rare
Set
Unique
Crafted
Runeword
​

Example Given:
Helm and Armor: Magical
Ring and Gloves: Rare
Belt and Boots: Normal
Amulet and Ring: Magical
Weapon(s)/shield and Switch: Rare Hand Axe, Rare Poleaxe

STATS:
Vitality, Strength, Dex, and Energy follow the same rules. Chose two groups and each must have the BASE being equal with each other.

Example:
Vit/STR: Base 80
Enr/Dex: Base 40

SKILLS:

Each skill tree you choose two abilities. Each ability must be kept equal with each other and each must have a minimum of TEN to procede to place 11-20 points in any of the skill trees. *BASE only, +skills do not count*

Example:

Paladin:

Zeal/Holy Bolt: 5 each
Fire Aura/Sanctuary: 10 each
Prayer/Resist Fire: 8 Each

To raise higher than 10 skills need to look like this:

Zeal/Holy Bolt: 10 each
Fire Aura/Sanctuary: 16 each
Prayer/Resist Fire: 10 each

CHARMS:
A pair of each to use, no limit to size or total quantity.

Examples:

6 Small Charms
2 Grand Charms
0 Large Charms

2 Small Charms
4 Grand Charms
6 Large charms

MERCENARY

Each Mercenary must equip the same item quality in each slot unless it is an Act3 mercenary, at which case you must make two pairs due to having four slots.

CLARIFICATIONS:

Magical, Unique, Rare, Crafted items may all be ethereal and/or socketed as well.

What is the +15 bonus mean? If before you start, you choose how your four pairs and your weapon switches will be in regards to quality. You many not equip the slots with anything else.

Skills you do not have to raise purely equally, but do have to at least stagger them. Effectively raising them as pairs.

GOOD:
Skeleton Mastery: 1
Summon Skeleton: 1

Amplify Damage:2
Dim Vision:1

NOT ALLOWED:
Skeleton Mastery:2
Summon Skeleton:1

Amplify Damage:2
Dim Vision:1

Sample creation: Barbarian: STR/VIT, DEX/ENR, BattleOrders/Find Potion, Sword Mastery/Increased Stamina, Bash/Stun

w/ pre-chosen gear:
Amulet/Ring: Rare
Ring/Belt: Unique
Armor/Helm:Runeword
Weapons:Rare
Gloves/boots:Magical
Mercenary: Rare

 

[pepitosari]

Re: Everything comes in Pairs tournament IDEA/interest

Only one question, can you use 1 point wonders or are you limited to use the skills you chose? Does it make a difference if the skill is a prereq. for one of your skills of choice?

 

[Vang]

Re: Everything comes in Pairs tournament IDEA/interest

You can only use the six skills that you choose. 1 point in pre-reqs and no pumping other skills for synergy purposes.

 

[Morathi1]

Re: Everything comes in Pairs tournament IDEA/interest

So the 6 skills you choose, are effectively the only 6 skills that you can use and add more than 1 point, yes?

What about skills from items? like charges or ctc X skill, are they banned as well?

 

[Vang]

Re: Everything comes in Pairs tournament IDEA/interest

So the 6 skills you choose, are effectively the only 6 skills that you can use and add more than 1 point, yes?

Correct.

As for CtC or charges both are fine. Outside skills granted are not. Also if an equipped item grants a passive that you don't have as a skill it is also fine to be equipped.

 

[wakiki]

Re: Everything comes in Pairs tournament IDEA/interest

I liked the sound of the tournament until I read the rules. ACK! No points please! Those are a chore!

I would say allow one PAIR of utility (level one) skills to be used. They should either A) be from different trees (i.e. teleport and hydra), or B) be from the same tree (i.e. teleport and static field). I don't know which sounds cooler. Same tree is probably more in keeping with the spirit of the tournament, although it seems easier for most characters (since most characters have multiple "utility" skills in one tree.)

Also, charms should not just be paired by type, but by graphic! If you want to be really fancy about it, don't allow two pairs with the same graphic. If there are only three graphic types for each charm (I think this is right) then that means 6 charms of each size.

Also, I would recommend that you have a rule making rings have to share the same graphic. Even though they aren't paired, they still need to, don't you think? Hehe. Or you could actually pair the rings....ring/ring, helm/armor, glove/belt, amulet/boot. Just throwing ideas out there.

I'm not too sure about requiring ten points in every skill before you advance any to 11. I'm going to be level 70 before I max any skills. Isn't that too restrictive? And it doesn't make sense to me, either. Why does one pair influence another? Sounds like we are dealing with a set of six now, rather than a set of two...

 

[Vang]

Re: Everything comes in Pairs tournament IDEA/interest

I liked the sound of the tournament until I read the rules. ACK! No points please! Those are a chore!

Also, charms should not just be paired by type, but by graphic! If you want to be really fancy about it, don't allow two pairs with the same graphic. If there are only three graphic types for each charm (I think this is right) then that means 6 charms of each size.

Also, I would recommend that you have a rule making rings have to share the same graphic. Even though they aren't paired, they still need to, don't you think? Hehe. Or you could actually pair the rings....ring/ring, helm/armor, glove/belt, amulet/boot. Just throwing ideas out there.

I'm not too sure about requiring ten points in every skill before you advance any to 11. I'm going to be level 70 before I max any skills. Isn't that too restrictive? And it doesn't make sense to me, either. Why does one pair influence another? Sounds like we are dealing with a set of six now, rather than a set of two...

I have no issue throwing out points and just going by waypoints. Either way it doesn't really matter to much unless someone reaches the ultimate goal.

I actually want to shy away from utility, part of the reason why you pick 2 in each tree. Some trees have both and you have to pick. You can easily survive with just your mercenary for the better part of early levels. Not a bad idea though, but then we have the headache of saying what is utility and what is not. Allowing CtC and charges to be used help with utility and the overall weaker skills sets due to not maxing any until late nightmare.

The graphics idea is quite good, but would be a better fit in its own tournament with the theme of matching graphics.

And finally your last part of why everything 10 before your move on to 11 or above in a skill tree pair. You are forced to use your three pairs of skills. So choose wisely. Do you really want that 1 point wonder or can you survive without it knowing you have to put 10 into it?

 

[wakiki]

Re: Everything comes in Pairs tournament IDEA/interest

Utility skill = any skill that has one hard point in it. Not a headache. But I can see how it would go against the idea of the tournament. Exactly two skills in each tree does have a certain elegance to it. I guess putting 10 points into teleport would feel silly (although that has it's uses), so most sorcs would just use charges. That actually seems pretty fair, since now they are like every other class. So yeah, I can do without utility skills.

I'm still behind the charm idea though. I mean, if you have 6 small charms and 3 of them have one graphic, two have another, and there's one with the other graphic, and they are randomly arranged, those don't feel like pairs at all. Much better to have a pair of each nicely beside its partner in your inventory. The ring rule feels out of place because rings aren't paired. But since charms are...well, even if you don't have this rule, I guess I will enforce is on myself.

 

[Vang]

Re: Everything comes in Pairs tournament IDEA/interest

I'm still behind the charm idea though. I mean, if you have 6 small charms and 3 of them have one graphic, two have another, and there's one with the other graphic, and they are randomly arranged, those don't feel like pairs at all. Much better to have a pair of each nicely beside its partner in your inventory. The ring rule feels out of place because rings aren't paired. But since charms are...well, even if you don't have this rule, I guess I will enforce is on myself.

Well, then lets see some feedback on the graphically matched charm pairs.

If we get enough that say its worth the extra trouble we can certainly add to the rules as it does add a little more challenge that would be rather easy to follow.