Enough damage to stop uber life regen?

[Jamiroquai]

Enough damage to stop uber life regen?

Is 10%cb and 10%ow at lvl 93 enough damage to just stop the ubers' life regeneration? I think I know the answer just asking here for confirmation. If you don't think 93 is high enough, what lvl would create enough damage? As I write this I question my math more and more. Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[Kijya]

iirc any ow should be enught, if not you can just use a poison source instead, a single sc will do the trick. :azn:

 

[krischan]

10% CB doesn't sound really good. Consider wearing Goreriders, Goblin Toe, Guillaume's helm etc.

 

[Jamiroquai]

It's on a javazon, the only source of crushing blow I can muster is on the gloves. Can you post a link to the correct formulea for these so I can see if I'm doing my math right? If so that would be grand.

 

[krischan]

When throwing at a boss, a successful CB takes 1/20 of its current life (1/8 in melee BTW). If you hit all the time, you take an average of 1 - 0.95^0.1 per hit which is 0.51% of its life. As I said, 10% CB doesn't sound good and it's even worse with missile combat. With 70% from your gloves, Guillaume's and Goblin Toe it would be 1 - 0.95^0.7 which is an average of 3.5% per hit. The maximum obviously is 5% with 100% CB.

 

[helvete1]

A few adds

A - Ubers have positive physical resists, which affect CB

2 - If you are to use a skill that has "always hits" the (old AD&D) Critical Miss is bypassed. Meaning "always hits" always hits.

D - Player count matters. CB no longer scales with monster HP as it did in 1.09 and before. With 2 players in the game, you're looking at 1/30 of net boss life per hit with ranged attack instead of 1/20.

 

[Jamiroquai]

I'm not trying to crushing blow the ubers to death. I'm asking if I could potentially stop their health from regenerating with 10% cb and ow.

 

[herbboy]

if its a javazon, and you can get poison javalin and hit them once adn the poison will stop their regen

 

[helvete1]

CB has nothing whatsoever to do with regen.

Regen is a straight number of health per sec (around 16000 for the ubers).

CB takes a certain fraction of the remaining life, thus the lower the life, the less it helps.

CB doesn't "prevent monster heal".

 

[Jamiroquai]

Okay thanks, does anyone have an informed idea on the ow question?

 

[PhatTrumpet]

http://www.purediablo.com/guides/news.php?id=551#Open Wounds

Question is: does OW set the target's regen to zero then apply the appropriate negative regen, or does it merely subtract the appropriate negative regen from the target's normal regen? AFAIK, it's the latter, so if someone knows the Ubers' regen rate we can figure this out. I have a feeling that OW alone is not enough to counter their regen.

 

[Jamiroquai]

~16k per second is their life regen I believe. The first user seemed to think it was the former. If it's the latter I'm doing ~144 negative life regen per second. I have a 9 frame attack thus attacking 2.7 times per second. On average every 3.7 seconds I will achieve a crushing blow dealing damage that is 1/8th of the uber's remaining life. I'd say if it's the former I'd be doing fine, if it's the latter I'd be in a hurt locker. The answer should be obvious once I test this. Thanks everyone.

 

[Lord Nyax]

~16k per second is their life regen I believe. The first user seemed to think it was the former. If it's the latter I'm doing ~144 negative life regen per second. I have a 9 frame attack thus attacking 2.7 times per second. On average every 3.7 seconds I will achieve a crushing blow dealing damage that is 1/8th of the uber's remaining life. I'd say if it's the former I'd be doing fine, if it's the latter I'd be in a hurt locker. The answer should be obvious once I test this. Thanks everyone.

On Super Uniques in a solo game, CB does 1/10 of their remaining life. Not 1/8...just a heads up.

 

[SSoG]

http://www.purediablo.com/guides/news.php?id=551#Open Wounds

Question is: does OW set the target's regen to zero then apply the appropriate negative regen, or does it merely subtract the appropriate negative regen from the target's normal regen? AFAIK, it's the latter, so if someone knows the Ubers' regen rate we can figure this out. I have a feeling that OW alone is not enough to counter their regen.

Taken from a post I just made in this thread

Open Wounds will deal, as an absolute maximum, ((45*Clvl-1319)/256) * Modifier damage per frame. The modifier for bosses is .5, which means with a Clvl 99 Character, that's 12.5 damage per frame, or 312.5 damage per second. And that's an absolute maximum using a clvl 99 character.

Now, we know two things. First off, we know that the Ubers regenerate more than 300 damage per second (or else nobody would have any trouble killing them, and it would take them more than half an hour to fully regenerate in 1-player games). We also know that Open Wounds makes killing the Ubers drastically easier (or else people would stop putting Open Wounds on their Uberkilling characters, and would instead replace it with something that could boost their damage output by 300 points per second- not too hard to do).

The way that I understand how OW works is that it takes the monster's base regeneration and then OVERWRITES it with the new, negative regeneration (which is exactly how poison works, too- or else that crappy 2-damage poison small charm I keep in my inventory to stop monster regeneration wouldn't speed up my killing any). The common sense test backs this up, because surely there's no way in hell even 300 damage a second from Open Wounds would make that much of a difference in Uber Tristram, otherwise.

In this thread, somebody already mentioned that the Ubers regen about 16,000 life per second. That sounds right to me. They have 650,000-660,000 life in 1-player games, so if it takes them 40 seconds to completely regenerate (which is a common "complete regeneration" speed), that means 16,250 to 16,500 life per second. If Open Wounds really only reduced that by 300, do you think anyone would notice or care in the slightest? "Oh yes, OW triggered, now UberMeph is only regenerating 16,200 life per second!".

If OW merely reduced the regeneration values, rather than overwriting them completely, you'd pretty much never be able to kill the Ubers with smite. By the time their HPs were down to 100,000, your CB + Smite Damage + 300-per-second Open Wounds would no longer deal enough damage to counteract monster regeneration. You'd basically be stuck with the Ubers at 1/6th of their life for all eternity.

 

[Jamiroquai]

Thanks much.

 

[krischan]

On Super Uniques in a solo game, CB does 1/10 of their remaining life. Not 1/8...just a heads up.

Not quite according to the Strategy Compendium, but I was wrong as well :azn:

Crushing Blow reduces a target's life by a certain fraction:

Normal Monster hit with a melee weapon: 1/4
Normal Monster hit with a ranged weapon: 1/8
Boss/Champion Monster hit with a melee weapon: 1/8
Boss/Champion Monster hit with a ranged weapon: 1/16
Player/Hireling hit with a melee weapon: 1/10
Player/Hireling hit with a missile weapon: 1/20 (typo fixed here)

 

[helvete1]

If OW merely reduced the regeneration values, rather than overwriting them completely, you'd pretty much never be able to kill the Ubers with smite. By the time their HPs were down to 100,000, your CB + Smite Damage + 300-per-second Open Wounds would no longer deal enough damage to counteract monster regeneration. You'd basically be stuck with the Ubers at 1/6th of their life for all eternity.

I have no OW on my smiter whatsoever, and he kills the ubers without slightest trouble.

IIRC OW doesn't even work with smite.

The thing with smite is that it's a fast attack, and it always hits. With a decent CB (my smiter has only 33%) you'll cause 1/8 life cuts again and again (though ubers have positive physical resists, so that number is more like 1/16)

All it takes is two or three hits with CB in a row to make uber's life less than 10k and it's then possible to kill them.

 

[PhatTrumpet]

Taken from a post I just made in this thread...

I was going by this thread, and the link within it, in which superdave was trying to get an explanation as to why zombies were still regenerating life after open wounds had clearly triggered.

 

[helvete1]

It has been proven that poison WILL void regeneration, whilst OW will not.

 

[SSoG]

I have no OW on my smiter whatsoever, and he kills the ubers without slightest trouble.

IIRC OW doesn't even work with smite.

The thing with smite is that it's a fast attack, and it always hits. With a decent CB (my smiter has only 33%) you'll cause 1/8 life cuts again and again (though ubers have positive physical resists, so that number is more like 1/16)

All it takes is two or three hits with CB in a row to make uber's life less than 10k and it's then possible to kill them.

OW does work with Smite.

If the Ubers really have 600,000 life, then it would take 31 consecutive hits of CB to get them under 10,000 life, and that's assuming 0% physical resist and no regeneration. In reality, let's assume you have a 6-frame Smite. The Ubers will regenerate over 4,000 HP between every smite... which means even if you could CB them down to a nub, you'd need more than 4,000 Smite damage to kill them off... and even if you had a 5,000 damage smite, it'd still take a lot of hits, since you'd deal 5,000 and then they'd regenerate 4,000 back.