Election 2020

[krischan]

OKOK, calm down everybody.

It's what they called themselves, and thus it is a bad thing. It is the woke who labeled facts, science, truth and objectivity as racist concepts. It is the woke who are systematically destroying freedom and equality.

Facts are one thing, the conclusions are another. It might be a fact that e.g. the covid rate in areas that happen to have a higher percentage of colored people is higher, but it's racist to say or hint that it's because of that. It's mixing up coincidence with correlation. In order to make such a claim in an acceptable manner, you will have to prove (not just make some sly rhetorics) that it's something in their genes or whatever, else it's just gossip. It's more likely because poor people live in closer quarters and have a lower percentage of home-office workers.

It's not fascism if let's say Twitter bans users for writing what they regard as BS. Freedom of media doesn't mean that they have to present a weighed and indepentent point of view, it means that they can publish whatever they want, within the boundaries of other constitutional rights and duties.

However, I see your point about some people (for me, with SD not being among them) methodically digging up any kind of incidents that might be in coincidence with racism, for promotig one's view of the world, just like the SS rune issue from a few weeks ago was such a nonsense. All of us are probably using rhetorics from time to time in order to spice up our points, but it's not necessarily methodical our out of vile motives.

 

[Glurin]

Just FYI, when I said they labeled facts as racist, I really do mean they labeled the concept of "facts" as racist. That wasn't an exaggeration. Math is also a racist concept. Public school teachers are literally being instructed to not inform a student that 2+2=37 is wrong because doing so is somehow racist. Our public schools weren't exactly all that great to begin with, but in the past it could be argued that they did at least some good. Stuff like this though, it strips that away and crosses the line into causing direct harm.

It might be a fact that e.g. the covid rate in areas that happen to have a higher percentage of colored people is higher, but it's racist to say or hint that it's because of that. It's mixing up coincidence with correlation. In order to make such a claim in an acceptable manner, you will have to prove (not just make some sly rhetorics) that it's something in their genes or whatever, else it's just gossip. It's more likely because poor people live in closer quarters and have a lower percentage of home-office workers.

I wanted to touch on this specifically as well since you brought it up because it has also been an issue, though not one that got a whole lot of attention. We're not allowed to ask that question here in the nation that is home to wokism. Numbers come in from an area that shows a higher infection rate among black people. We're not allowed to ask why, because doing so implies that the virus might not be specifically targeting black people and therefore the question itself is racist. You're just supposed to assume that the virus is racist and that's that, as far as the woke are concerned.

By the way, you may notice that I'm not referring to the left. That is because the woke don't represent much of the political left either. Perhaps they did at first, and the left was certainly more than happy to crawl into bed with them. But now they are exposing themselves for the extremist wackos they've always been.

It's not fascism if let's say Twitter bans users for writing what they regard as BS. Freedom of media doesn't mean that they have to present a weighed and indepentent point of view, it means that they can publish whatever they want.

Ah, but there's the rub. They claim they are a platform, not a publisher. In somewhat broad terms, a publisher can print whatever they want and they have to accept responsibility for anything they publish. Meaning they can be sued, to put it simply. A platform, on the other hand, does not have that responsibility because they largely surrender the right to decide what gets published. Meaning they are protected from being sued because, practically speaking, they are not the decision makers. Twitter, currently, enjoys the protections of a platform while behaving like a publisher. It's in that combination where fascism worms its way in.

A good example for where the line is drawn is misinformation. Anyone who bans "misinformation" crosses that line from platform to publisher, since they are now arbitrarily deciding what is and is not "misinformation". (And be honest here, what tyrannical government hasn't had it's propaganda ministry or equivalent claim to be protecting people from misinformation while doing the exact opposite?) That's far from the only measure, mind you, but it is one of the more straightforward ones.

This is what the section 230 fight is all about. There wouldn't be an issue if Twitter just admitted that they are no longer merely a platform for speech. They don't even have to admit to being the propaganda arm that they have become. They just need to stop pretending that they are nothing more than impartial facilitators for the words of others.

 

[krischan]

Freedom of speech finds its boundaries in other constitutional rights and duties, else telling secrets to the enemy couldn't be punished as treason or (yes jmervyn, this is the third time I made this example) you couldn't convict somebody who told a small child that it's safe to cross the street, getting it killed, for example.

I'm not going to start arguing about how much freedom of speech e.g. Twitter promises and how much of it they may or may not keep. If freely spoken words violate the rights of others, a weighing has to take place. I doubt that Twitter is going to have a hundred thousand lawyers check everything for possible problems, so they started doing what's the least bad for business.

I agree that the result might be something else than they promise, but that's not fascism. Fascism is more like placing society as a whole over everything else, like constitutional rights (which makes it related to socialism). For example, if being harmed for your country brings a greater advantage than getting away (like by serving as a culprit for something that's the fault of some person, institution or concept that's more valuable for society than you), that has a fascistic element... among others, like the always popular reason of state, machiavellism or protection or improvement of one's personal position. Which it is depends on the motives of those who do it. Which it will be called is often a matter of the motives of those who make such an assessment.

I believe that Twitter does it mainly for business, so it's more capitalistic than fascistic. Whatever claims a company is going to make about doing something because of societal duties or freedom or rights on this and that, I'm not going to believe it. They would lose less of my respect if they plainly say "we do it like this mainly because it's better for business" instead of being so obviously hypocritic or even mendacious.

 

[superdave]

Public school teachers are literally being instructed to not inform a student that 2+2=37 is wrong because doing so is somehow racist.

Reading you crazy uncle's facebook again. How do you come up with this shit?

 

[superdave]

I wanted to touch on this specifically as well since you brought it up because it has also been an issue, though not one that got a whole lot of attention. We're not allowed to ask that question here in the nation that is home to wokism. Numbers come in from an area that shows a higher infection rate among black people. We're not allowed to ask why, because doing so implies that the virus might not be specifically targeting black people and therefore the question itself is racist. You're just supposed to assume that the virus is racist and that's that, as far as the woke are concerned.

Lies a racist propagates.

I've read several studies that deal with this exact issue. Why are African Americans infected at higher rates and why do they experience more severe symptoms. It is NOT racist to ask these questions. They have been asked and discussed in many of the nation's newspapers too.

The take away was access to health care due to poverty or lack of health insurance and the way that medical professionals treat Black and white patients differently.

 

[superdave]

This is what the section 230 fight is all about. There wouldn't be an issue if Twitter just admitted that they are no longer merely a platform for speech. They don't even have to admit to being the propaganda arm that they have become. They just need to stop pretending that they are nothing more than impartial facilitators for the words of others.

Moderate/delete child porn and you become a publisher.

This all come down to assholes who historically have never been called on their assholery, now being upset that they are no longer able to continue being assholes without being called an asshole.

 

[Glurin]

I believe that Twitter does it mainly for business, so it's more capitalistic than fascistic. Whatever claims a company is going to make about doing something because of societal duties or freedom or rights on this and that, I'm not going to believe it. They would lose less of my respect if they plainly say "we do it like this mainly because it's better for business" instead of being so obviously hypocritic or even mendacious.

Oh there's no question that money is part of the equation. But there's also no question that their actions of late are politically motivated as well. The two are far from mutually exclusive.

 

[Glurin]

Reading you crazy uncle's facebook again. How do you come up with this shit?

The Oregon Department of Education.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/aski...rk-in-math-class-is-a-form-of-white-supremacy

"Examples of classroom actions that allegedly perpetuate white supremacy include asking students to show their work, focusing on getting the right answer, tracking student success, and grading students."

This all come down to assholes who historically have never been called on their assholery, now being upset that they are no longer able to continue being assholes without being called an asshole.

If that were true, there would be a whole lot fewer democrats and lefties on those services.

 

[superdave]

The Oregon Department of Education.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/aski...rk-in-math-class-is-a-form-of-white-supremacy

"Examples of classroom actions that allegedly perpetuate white supremacy include asking students to show their work, focusing on getting the right answer, tracking student success, and grading students."

Because the dailywire is the right "news" organization to put the perfect spin on this and give an unbiased accounting of what the Dept. of Ed is trying to accomplish.

 

[Glurin]

Oh we all know what the department of education is trying to accomplish. They want their government stipend. This year in order to get it, they need to appease the outrage mob with "anti-racist" (which is just a cover for racism) policies and numbers to show that their minority students are just as successful as white students, if not more so. The problem is the way they go about it is to cheat those students out of an education and further exacerbate racial tensions. They are doing all of those students a huge disservice, minorities included.

 

[Noodle]

Glurin, I'm guessing your eyes are brown because you're so full of shit. "We all know . . ." followed by an outright lie is a classic Trumpian way to make a stupidly outrageous claim without being called out on it. I'm again going to request credible proof of any of the bullshit you're spewing. I followed the links and read the Oregon Education releases, and NONE of them that I've seen contain anything close to the "quotations" you've either made up completely or quote conspiracy entertainment sites like dailywire as if they're authoritative. Give us a credible link to an education authority actually making the claims you ridiculously parrot.

 

[Noodle]

Here's a fun game: try to spot the fascist / racist in this picture:

 

[Noodle]

It's a trick question, they're essentially the same person.

 

[Glurin]

Oh please. It's right there in the material that article references which was provided by the department of education.

"The concept of mathematics being purely objective is unequivocally false, and teaching it is even much less so. Up-holding the idea that there are always right and wrong answers perpetuate objectivity as well as fear of open conflict."

The whole first lesson is eighty pages of "White supremacy culture shows up in math classrooms when..." with examples like:
Students are tracked.
State standards guide learning in the classroom.
“Good” math teaching is considered an antidote for mathematical inequity for Black, Latinx, multilingual students.
Math is taught in a linear fashion and skills are taught sequentially without true understanding of prerequisite knowledge.
The focus is only on getting the “right” answer.
Expectations are not met.
Teachers are teachers and students are learners.

 

[krischan]

The guy to the left isn't a fascist, just the kind of... err, human being that decided for certain minorities to bully and have delusions of superiority about them. In nazi Germany, he would probably have been sentenced to forced labour for being what they would call an antisocial parasite... and if he wasn't careful, that forced labour would be served in a concentration camp. In there, he might have become a kapo, a kind of officer among the captives, in order to press the inmates into working harder (and dying quicker) until his usefulness has run out.

The guy to the right would have found a win-win situation with the nazis for some time, but then got shot for being unable to STFU too often.

 

[superdave]

Looks like pizzagate was real, but it was the R's abusing children. Matt Gaetz, US congressman just shit the bed on Tucker last night.

Matt...another word for "underage woman" is "child".

 

[Glurin]

The guy to the left isn't a fascist, just the kind of... err, human being that decided for certain minorities to bully and have delusions of superiority about them. In nazi Germany, he would probably have been sentenced to forced labour for being what they would call an antisocial parasite... and if he wasn't careful, that forced labour would be served in a concentration camp. In there, he might have become a kapo, a kind of officer among the captives, in order to press the inmates into working harder (and dying quicker) until his usefulness has run out.

The guy to the right would have found a win-win situation with the nazis for some time, but then got shot for being unable to STFU too often.

On the European spectrum maybe. On the American spectrum, fascism is 100% no question a left wing ideal. The right in America traditionally values smaller government, less regulation and control, more power to the individual and less discrimination. The polar opposite of fascism. If they actually had a party that represented them, America might be able to reclaim it's title as the greatest nation on Earth. But as the old saying goes, power corrupts. Every time a decent man enters politics, he eventually drowns in that quagmire. The republican party is pretty much only symbolically right wing at this point.

The left, on the other hand, embraces all powerful government, extreme regulation, centralized control, less power to the individual, unchecked power in the executive branch as long as they occupy that branch, and a whole heck of a lot of discrimination based on skin color, especially recently. They give nazis the finger with one hand while holding their playbook in the other.

 

[superdave]

I doubt many Nazis voted for Dems. I think to a man, they voted R. They sure did show up in numbers at his rallies.

THAT is how you know what side supports fascism.

Glurin's claim that the right is the party of less discrimination and the Dems are discriminating based on skin colour is a joke.

The Biden admin is the most multi-colour admin ever sworn in. The white house under Trump was pasty white with a tiny sprinkle of token color.

 

[superdave]

Looks like pizzagate was real, but it was the R's abusing children. Matt Gaetz, US congressman just shit the bed on Tucker last night.

Matt...another word for "underage woman" is "child".

Gym Jordan R OHIO ...."I believe Matt Gaetz". When Gym was an assistant coach for the Ohio State wrestling team, he believed the team doctor who was molesting students, not the kids who reported it to him and the abuse continued for years. 350 students were molested and just under 50 raped. Maybe Gym should sit this one out.

Matt was the only congressman who voted against a federal child trafficking law. Now we know why.

Pizzagaetz?
pedogaetz?
a week ago Matt said that if he was ever involved in a scandal, he wanted it to be known as Gaetzgate.

Doesn't matter what you call it, it is damn greasy.

 

[Glurin]

The Biden admin is the most multi-colour admin ever sworn in.

Exactly.