Dim Vision and Max Vita worthwile in 1.13?

Mikey Two Guns

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Aug 13, 2008
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Dim Vision and Max Vita worthwile in 1.13?

With champion and unique classes of Gloams/Souls getting damage nerfs in 1.13, I propose a question that is of importance to general necromancer development: Will builds with Max Vita and many hard points in Dim Vision be advantageous when 1.13 comes out?

For me as of now, the primary reason for considering a Max Vitality skelemancer is to protect my balls against Gloam packs. In Hell, I find the regular Gloams and Souls bearable with Max Block and 75% Lightening resists. It is the boss and champion packs that give me some fuss. Now that 1.13 will nerf their damage, is there sufficient reason to distribute stat points with champion and unique Souls as a main consideration? In any case, I predict Max Block will at least become marginally more preferable after the patch.

Also, I have considered extra points in Dim Vision with my recent skelemancer build. The only reason I did was because of Souls. With the Gloam/Soul nerf in 1.13, I am wondering that there is less reason to invest points in Dim Vision in the future.

I realize that the biggest fault in this thinking is that Dim Vision does not apply to champions and uniques. Furthermore, because regular Souls tend to cluster with the uniques and champions like other monster types, it can still be advantageous to use a high level Dim Vision to factor out any regular Souls so that the total damage the Soul packs deliver is much less. But for such scenarios after 1.13 is released, I am wondering if an extremely high level Dim Vision will still be advantageous over a 1 hard point Dim Vision to the point where it is actually worth dumping points into. I admit that I am very unsure about this one.
 
Re: Dim Vision and Max Vita worthwile in 1.13?

...so... so what? They may be still bugged, but I already stated that the champions/uniques souls were the real problem for a skelemancer. Despite having buggy, high damage, regular souls are not that tough even for a Max Block skelemancer. So the questions I presented in the OP still remain.
 
Re: Dim Vision and Max Vita worthwile in 1.13?

I will still be keeping dim vision in my minion master builds because gloams are only part of it's usefulness. It's also a great uber's curse to apply after terror to park minions a safe distance away from the army and summoner. Vipers and archer packs also come readily to mind (although block would help with the later quite a bit). I will probably switch it up for max block though.

I'm not sure I agree that champion/uniques were the real problem. The real problem was very large groups when wearing MF gear in the worldstone keep (i.e. not max light res). I've never had much trouble bobbing and weaving through four champion souls much less one unique soul.
 
Re: Dim Vision and Max Vita worthwile in 1.13?

I will still be keeping dim vision in my minion master builds because gloams are only part of it's usefulness. It's also a great uber's curse to apply after terror to park minions a safe distance away from the army and summoner. Vipers and archer packs also come readily to mind (although block would help with the later quite a bit). I will probably switch it up for max block though.

I'm not sure I agree that champion/uniques were the real problem. The real problem was very large groups when wearing MF gear in the worldstone keep (i.e. not max light res). I've never had much trouble bobbing and weaving through four champion souls much less one unique soul.

Well, bear in mind that I am not talking about completely doing away with Dim Vision. In fact, it should still be utilized against Souls. I am just wondering if dumping many hard points into it will be worth doing anymore. Specifically, will we just be better off dumping hard points in Amp instead to make its radius closer to that of CE's? Or would Bone Armor synergies be more appealing (probably not)? This is of course after completing the core build with max RS, SM, CE, yadda yadda.

And yes, if you are going to traverse the Worldstone Keep without max Lightning Resists, then you are going to have problems. :crazyeyes: Even with max LR, I do find the champions a problem at unlucky times such as when you go through the WS waypoint to be greeted by their combined fire at the other side of the bridge. I usually find myself either dead or almost dead with no recourse except go elsewhere to raise my army; Dim Vision does not help me like it would with regulars.

EDIT: I just remembered something--use Gumby as a scout when you are without an army. By casting him ahead yourself and around corners, you can prevent Souls from ambushing you like gangstas in the southside of Chicago.


 
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Re: Dim Vision and Max Vita worthwile in 1.13?

Well, bear in mind that I am not talking about completely doing away with Dim Vision. In fact, it should still be utilized against Souls. I am just wondering if dumping many hard points into it will be worth doing anymore.

What?

If you're investing in DV primarily for normal (non-champ/unique) gloams, and those weren't nerfed, why'd you not invest in it anymore?

You're not making much sense...


 
Re: Dim Vision and Max Vita worthwile in 1.13?

where is this info about souls/gloams being nerfed in the patch?
 
Re: Dim Vision and Max Vita worthwile in 1.13?

@Vague: [BLUE="http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=21730644780&sid=3000"]Specific changes/improvements

- Respecialization is now possible! Completing the 'Den of Evil' quest will now additionally reward 1 free respec which can be saved. Players who have already completed this quest should receive 1 free respec in Hell difficulty.
- Increased the drop rate of high runes.
- Support for blit scaling in windowed mode. The game can now be maximized to the largest 4:3 resolution supported (hooray widescreen users).
- Some rare drop items now have an orange color. i.e. Runes and items required for Uber Tristam.
- Modified the gold bank limit to be a flat cap not bound by level.
- Nightmare/Hell WilloWisps champions/uniques have had their damage greatly reduced.
- Removed the requirements to create a hardcore character.
- Greatly reduced the explosion damage dealt by Fire Enchanted monsters.
- Uber Mephisto and Uber Baal's summoned minions no longer give experience.
- Removed Oblivion Knight's Iron Maiden curse.
- Hellfire Torch Firestorm proc rate has been reduced to 5%.
- Users can now toggle the display of text over the Health and Mana globes by clicking on the bottom area of each orb.
- Updated two Act 5 mercenary names to Klar and Tryneus.
- When creating a single player game, pressing the 'Enter' key now automatically creates a Hell difficulty game if possible.
- When creating a game, each difficulty button is now bound to a unique key: Normal 'R', Nightmare 'N', and Hell 'H'.
- The 'Enter Chat' Button in the battle.net waiting room is now bound to the 'Enter' key.
- Added the windows system buttons to the game window (MIN, MAX, CLOSE).
- Added new command line parameter '-nofixaspect' which allows users to not fix the aspect ratio to 4:3 when maximizing windowed mode. This lets the game 'stretch' to fill your monitor.
- Added support for '-sndbkg' command line switch. This enables sound in background.
- Added support for '-nosound', '-window', and '-windowed' command line options. [/BLUE]

I did some tests yesterday against a Hell Black Soul yesterday (with help from RTB who fed me all the numbers) with a character with 1 Lightning Resistance. If their damage was fixed, they should be doing 5-190, but they consistently dealt 200-300 damage to my character. This means that even though champion/unique damage has been nerfed, they are still dealing extra lightning damage (including champions/uniques as well, probably).
 
Re: Dim Vision and Max Vita worthwile in 1.13?

What?

If you're investing in DV primarily for normal (non-champ/unique) gloams, and those weren't nerfed, why'd you not invest in it anymore?

You're not making much sense...

Well, I did indicate at the beginning of the fourth paragraph in my OP that the thought process behind my DV question was faulty. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you actually read the OP but just forgot about that particular tidbit.

Also, I propose that all forum members cut back on "..." as a form of closure, kapeesh?
 
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Re: Dim Vision and Max Vita worthwile in 1.13?

Well, I did indicate at the beginning of the fourth paragraph in my OP that the thought process behind my DV question was faulty. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you actually read the OP but just forgot about that particular tidbit.

Well, I assumed that you sought confirmation that it indeed does not make sense. So I'm here telling you: no, from my point of view, it still does not make sense :p

The update to champion/unique souls did not affect DV in any way.

Also, I propose that all forum members cut back on "..." as a form of closure, kapeesh?

Why that?

And that "capiche" line is horribly cheesy. Are ya gonna shoot me?


 
Re: Dim Vision and Max Vita worthwile in 1.13?

Touche. I was drunk when I made my post last night, so you will have to excuse me.

So I conclude there is no reason to stop putting hard points into Dim Vision then.
 
Re: Dim Vision and Max Vita worthwile in 1.13?

Unique physical damage mobs have always been the most dangerous if you have decent gear, so no reason to go without max block if your gear allows it.
 
Re: Dim Vision and Max Vita worthwile in 1.13?

gloams have always been the biggest threat to a summoner followed by bugged tomb vipers. unique physical damage mobs are a dime a dozen unless it's a saber cat and I don't often find myself in the bloody foothills but i do find myself in the halls or the wsk. if you run organs or torches blizzard, armegedon, and poison can also all be added to the list above physical damage uniques.
 
Re: Dim Vision and Max Vita worthwile in 1.13?

gloams have always been the biggest threat to a summoner followed by bugged tomb vipers.
IF appropriate gear is used(tgods + res stack, common practice in hc), that is not true. There is no good protection against blind teleporting into a pack of amp dmg fanat extra strong physical damage baddies other than max block though! Gloams barely scratch with good gear but physical dmg mobs can still hit 1000+ in a single blow.



 
Re: Dim Vision and Max Vita worthwile in 1.13?

IF appropriate gear is used(tgods + res stack, common practice in hc), that is not true. There is no good protection against blind teleporting into a pack of amp dmg fanat extra strong physical damage baddies other than max block though! Gloams barely scratch with good gear but physical dmg mobs can still hit 1000+ in a single blow.

Hug the walls and get a faster tele.


 
Re: Dim Vision and Max Vita worthwile in 1.13?

IF appropriate gear is used(tgods + res stack, common practice in hc), that is not true. There is no good protection against blind teleporting into a pack of amp dmg fanat extra strong physical damage baddies other than max block though! Gloams barely scratch with good gear but physical dmg mobs can still hit 1000+ in a single blow.

Sure, that's true in hardcore where the consequences of catistrophic failure are, essentially, infinite but in softcore running max block + tgods + light res stack instead of full MF is a significant reduction in usable item acquired per unit time. The risk of incidental death to a one in a million unique and their minion pack represents a much smaller factor in the equation in softcore.


 
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