Diabloii.net= Hypocrite?

[Anidem]

well, maphack has a lot of 'features' the ablity to 'chicken out' of a fight when your life ball hits a certian % is one of them. I mean I'm not argueing for the use of maphack either, and I really hope no one interpreted anything that I said as 'go go maphack, or maphack is ok if atma is ok' that's not what I meant at all. I just don't think that slamming one hack and praising another makes a whole lot of sense, because when it comes down to it, they're both hacks, and in the eyes of Blizzard Lawyers they're the exact same thing.

Yea that was my whole point also. But it is funny how people can justify based on there personal preferences instead of basic facts.

 

[Compman]

ok, im gonna take a stab here, didnt even bother reading the posts after the first, so if im just repeating, bear with me... ill answer for you if theres only one answer

brad - Anidem, are you able to mule without a using third party program?

Anidem - yes

brad - can you reveal the entire map, look at peoples gear without them knowing and know monster stats before they are on your screen without using third party program?

Anidem - no

brad - so, you're saying that muling can be done without atma but that you can't reveal the entire map, look at peoples gear without them knowing and know monster stats before they are on your screen without using maphack, am i right?

anidem - yes, and yes

brad - so muling is not cheating and revealing the entire map, looking at peoples gear without them knowing and knowing monster stats before they are on your screen is, correct?

anidem - yes, and yes again

brad - ok, thank you, discussion over, move along folks nothing to see here

maphack changes the way you play, and atma doesnt



sorry if i seemed kind of presumptious (spelling!!!) but if you argue any of the answers i gave you, feel free to dispute them....

Your argument defeats itself. Since when can you mule without ATMA? Last time I checked it's impossible. ATMA bypasses the base Diablo 2 game mechanics, period.

 

[RTB]

But it also take ALL the risk out of muling. Maphack doesn't offer you Invulnerability in fights (At least that I know of). So in that sense it is actually changes the game more than MH.

What risk? Computers can lock up at any time, muling with ATMA has the same risk as muling the hard way.

squigipapa: ATMA is not a hack. It's a 3rd party program and it modifies the .d2s files. It can't hack.
Slamming one program and praising the other makes sense if you realize where they were made for. Maphack adds features to the game, while ATMA simplifies muling.
Maphack changes the way you play by giving you a alot more of information about the monsters around you and allows you to chicken out at any time.
ATMA has the same effect on the way you play as ordinary mules, only cutting down the time it takes to mule.

Does it matter for this discussion that Blizzard's lawyers might think that they're both the same, a hack?

Compman: Yes you can. It takes two computers with internet access and two D2Lod cds. One hosts a TCP-IP game and the other joins with the mules.

 

[Anidem]

What risk? Computers can lock up at any time, muling with ATMA has the same risk as muling the hard way.

squigipapa: ATMA is not a hack. It's a 3rd party program and it modifies the .d2s files. It can't hack.
Slamming one program and praising the other makes sense if you realize where they were made for. Maphack adds features to the game, while ATMA simplifies muling.
Maphack changes the way you play by giving you a alot more of information about the monsters around you and allows you to chicken out at any time.
ATMA has the same effect on the way you play as ordinary mules, only cutting down the time it takes to mule.

Does it matter for this discussion that Blizzard's lawyers might think that they're both the same, a hack?

Compman: Yes you can. It takes two computers with internet access and two D2Lod cds. One hosts a TCP-IP game and the other joins with the mules.

Risk of crash, game filling up, risk of forgetting spelling of game name , People finding your x-ferr, and the almighty ISP deciding to take a nap on you. these can go wrong and cause you to lose items.

Yes it does matter for this discussion how blizz laywers would think because That IS the whole point! Both violate the EULA so both should be classified the same.

 

[Compman]

I didn't think about Open BNET, but even so, is it so hard to play by the rules. Realm players don't have the luxury of a program such as ATMA and still manage to mule the same way that a single-player should. The situation is the same as non-maphack players not having the luxury of seeing monsters on the map or whatever other advantages a player using maphack has.

Most EULA's contain something similiar to the following:

You may not modify, translate, reverse engineer, decompile, 
disassemble (except to the extent applicable laws specifically 
prohibit such restriction), or create derivative works based on 
the Software.

ATMA falls into this category and so does Maphack. Making excuses about it doesn't change the fact that it is a hack.

 

[squigipapa]

squigipapa: ATMA is not a hack. It's a 3rd party program and it modifies the .d2s files. It can't hack.

hack1 ( P ) v. hacked, hack·ing, hacks
To gain access to (a computer file or network) illegally or without authorization: hacked the firm's personnel database.

or for a second Dictionary.com definition...

To use one's skill in computer programming to gain illegal or unauthorized access to a file or network: hacked into the company's intranet.

or .. hacked (modified) the (Blizzard Propriatary) .d2s files

I donno man, from what you said:

ATMA is not a hack. It's a 3rd party program and it modifies the .d2s files.

I think you're useing the media's "Evil Hacker" definition. of the word. Just because Maphack has a negitive conotation to it compared to the positive connotation that ATMA has, dosen't make either of them more or less of a hack. they're both hacks. Just because atma dosen't let you create 'hacked' or bugged items dosen't mean it's not a hack.

 

[squigipapa]

ATMA falls into this category and so does Maphack. Making excuses about it doesn't change the fact that it is a hack.

EXACTLY! .. so true Compman. :clap: Right or wrong, good or bad, whatever .. it dosen't matter.. facts are facts.. ATMA is a hack. No matter which sites deem it to be alright. That is or course, until I see a notice on battle.net saying that it's alright.

 

[bradley_turner]

But it also take ALL the risk out of muling. Maphack doesn't offer you Invulnerability in fights (At least that I know of). So in that sense it is actually changes the game more than MH.

but you can transfer by having a friend hold the stuff on bnet though, no?
therefore eliminating about 98% of the 'risk'. there is a much greater risk of atma locking up than there is of the game locking up, the person holding the items drop, and then getting a rollback, and the person xferring NOT getting a rollback.

RTB already pointed out how you can xfer in sp without atma so i need not tread there.

ATMA does nothing but make the process easier, doing nothing that you could do without it (besides looking at fingerprints), which doesnt alter the files or game at all and therefore does not violate the EULA. oh and about the infinite stash thing, i for one dont use it, but even if i did, it does nothing but make a bunch of mules into one (ie having a mule account, more or less)

 

[RTB]

Risk of crash, game filling up, risk of forgetting spelling of game name , People finding your x-ferr, and the almighty ISP deciding to take a nap on you. these can go wrong and cause you to lose items.

We are not on Bnet here, there you can't even use ATMA. TCP/IP games only need an IP, and you can't forget it, as the last one used is saved.

Yes it does matter for this discussion how blizz laywers would think because That IS the whole point! Both violate the EULA so both should be classified the same.

This part of the EULA on the cd could apply to both Maphack and ATMA, but I don't think it does:

A. Subject to the Grant of License herein above, you may not, in whole or in part, copy, photocopy, reproduce, translate, reverse engineer, derive source code, modify, disassemble, decompile, create derivative works based on the Program, or remove any proprietary notices or labels on the Program without the prior consent, in writing, of the Licensor.

Because the character files didn't come with the cd, and only when you (the user) decides to create a character the .d2s files are made.
It seems they only care about the executable code, and not the saves.

The EULA seemed kind of short, so it could be that there's something missing in the EULA on the cd.

hack1 ( P ) v. hacked, hack·ing, hacks
To gain access to (a computer file or network) illegally or without authorization: hacked the firm's personnel database.

ATMA has access to those files anyway, because everyone on that computer can.

To use one's skill in computer programming to gain illegal or unauthorized access to a file or network: hacked into the company's intranet.

Same here.

Hacking is not the same as modifying. Why do people have to keep using online dictionaries to 'win' discussions like this...

 

[Anidem]

AAAAAAAAARRRRRGH!

EULA
ATMA
MH

Too Many Acronyms!

Brain overloading!
EERGK!

Intrabrain Explorer has encountered a problem.4232345363626.

<Reboot in progress>

Mommy, is that you?

 

[RTB]

One down, two to go.

 

[Compman]

Do you even know what ATMA does? It takes an item from one character file, deleting any trace of it there, and adds it to another save file. I don't see how you can logically come up with the idea that it doesn't modify anything. It most definately does. Code is code, whether it's a save file, an executable, a script, or whatever.

Stop making weak comebacks like, "Battle.net is unstable and if I mule the correct way I'll lose all my items! So I'll just do it the safe way." You could argue the same way for Maphack, "I'm afraid I might die and lose all my experience so I will use this program that lets me see the monsters beforehand." Either way it's making the game easier to both sides. ATMA gives an advantage to SP players whether you see it or not.

If Blizzard wanted you to be able to transfer items between characters instantaneously then they would have made the game that way.

 

[Anidem]

One down, two to go.

Hey! Quit stealing my avatar! I'm telling Elly!

 

[RTB]

Do you even know what ATMA does? It takes an item from one character file, deleting any trace of it there, and adds it to another save file. I don't see how you can logically come up with the idea that it doesn't modify anything. It most definately does. Code is code, whether it's a save file, an executable, a script, or whatever.

I never said it didn't.

Stop making weak comebacks like, "Battle.net is unstable and if I mule the correct way I'll lose all my items! So I'll just do it the safe way."

I never said that. For TCP/IP games you don't even enter bnet.

ATMA gives an advantage to SP players whether you see it or not.

Just like trading is an advantage to bnet players.

If Blizzard wanted you to be able to transfer items between characters instantaneously then they would have made the game that way.

An example: Rocketjumping in quake was never intended. Now, you may or may not recognize it, but it tells that players may do unexpected things.
Muling in bnet was never intended either in the way it currently is.

Anidem: Not funny. Go tell Elly to ban a certain member called Anidem.

 

[Anidem]

Dude show a little sense of humor. This is just a game! Not trying to offend, just don't want this to get all heated up like it did on page 1.

 

[RTB]

Dude show a little sense of humor. This is just a game! Not trying to offend, just don't want this to get all heated up like it did on page 1.

Who said I was serious about banning you? I think you should be flamed to ash.
And Diablo is a game, this is a discussion about the legitness of ATMA, which there have been plenty on this forum. I hope this one ends soon.

 

[Compman]

There is no sense in continuing to argue because it all comes down to opinion and it's obvious everyone has their own.

 

[staticj]

Some opinions can be wrong though. :lol:

You guys are silly for not being able to clearly see that theyre basically both the same thing.

With that said, anymore arguments will just be translated by my brain as 'blah blah blah'. :cheesy:

}>

 

[RTB]

You guys are silly for not being able to clearly see that theyre basically both the same thing.

Some opinions can be wrong though.

No further comment.

 

[Kremtok]

@Anidem: Why did you start a thread with the sole purpose of beginning an argument? There is no possible hope of influencing or changing anyone's opnion on this topic.

I truly don't understand why you are having this argument. The bottom line is that the site Admins make the rules here, because it is their site. You neither have to agree with, nor understand their decisions.

Several members have expressed their wish for this argument to cease. Request granted. Thread closed.