I was thinking that since the Barb has more base life he gets more out of it but I realized that doesn't really affect much. I guess some barbs are built around having BO and that way allows for fair play but still gives the barb the extra mana and I guess the extra safety to mess up a few times.
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DECA: Dueling Everyone Can Afford
- Thread starter jantia
- Start date
The thing I notice about this thread is that it's mostly the usual PvPers posting here. Looks like this will be another PvP tourney with the usual suspects, just using a different ruleset. If you really want to create a PvP tourney that everyone can afford, then definately ban anything above vex, possibly even anything above gul. At least then a much larger proportion of SPFers will have the items lying around to make a char for this.
Sounds like a good idea, go for it...
I agree, if you want dueling for the bigger crowd, ban runes of anything above Gul.
Barbs should be able to keep BO but cap it at a certain point, like Lv30.
Bonemancers will wall will be hard to approach without tele and lower r/w, so it should be banned.
Limit burst of speed on trappers and hybrids?
I agree, if you want dueling for the bigger crowd, ban runes of anything above Gul.
Barbs should be able to keep BO but cap it at a certain point, like Lv30.
Bonemancers will wall will be hard to approach without tele and lower r/w, so it should be banned.
Limit burst of speed on trappers and hybrids?
There's always a lag issue with TCP/IP PvP (say that fast three times), but it's usually not a huge problem, plus with a variety of hosts it often balances out (you'll have a better ping than your opponent one game, worse the next).mtzang said:I have a little question.. SPFers come from all over the globe.. so is there a lag issue?
EDIT - Further to zhao's comment re: BO, perhaps no gear switching at all to prebuff. Obviously +3 bo sticks on switch is fine, but no +5 BO helm/+3 WC ammy etc. This could go for all skills, not just BO.
SkaMan said:EDIT - Further to zhao's comment re: BO, perhaps no gear switching at all to prebuff. Obviously +3 bo sticks on switch is fine, but no +5 BO helm/+3 WC ammy etc. This could go for all skills, not just BO.
Good call Skaman, that way it also cuts down the waiting time between duels.
Matrixnetuk
New member
Hi Guys, sorry for the noobish comment in advance... as I have never duelled before.
But why not allow all runes but ban all rune words?
Cheers
Matrix
But why not allow all runes but ban all rune words?
Cheers
Matrix
Arreat_mercenary
New member
Matrixnetuk said:Hi Guys, sorry for the noobish comment in advance... as I have never duelled before.
But why not allow all runes but ban all rune words?
Cheers
Matrix
Because the purpose of this duel is that everyone can participate. Banning runewords but allowing runes sounds bad to me, since some runes offer very good effects, but those are very high runes, and as such, not many members have them, obviously killing the purpose that anyone can participate.
In the other side, with banning anything above Gul is good to me, since you still can use useful low-mid runes, like shael.
Also I see another isue with RWM/RRM - Vanilla :scratch:
Edit: Thanks for making it clear Aman. I don't know anything of PvP
With those rules it makes PvPing even more appealing to me (I don't have godly gear) heh..
The RWM/Vanilla issue is non existent(if I didn't read the SPF rules wrongly) unless you are refering to RWM users gaining an edge over vanilla users due to access to certain RW. However, with the restriction places on runes Vex and above, I don't think RWM users really have an advantage over vanilla users.
The RWM/Vanilla issue is non existent(if I didn't read the SPF rules wrongly) unless you are refering to RWM users gaining an edge over vanilla users due to access to certain RW. However, with the restriction places on runes Vex and above, I don't think RWM users really have an advantage over vanilla users.
Summons so far as I know have never been a problem.
So we'll see what everyone else says but as of now its probably going to be Vex down or Gul down (Vex down would take out Death/HotO) both of which I dont' feel are powerful enough to be banned. Note* I plan on using a Death so I may be a bit biased, but I don't feel that Death is that much better than Oath in pvp to warrant a ban: its 50 IAS versus 45 DS + 20%AR basically if you look at the stats.
DEATH
100% Chance To Cast Level 44 Chain Lightning When You Die
25% Chance To Cast Level 18 Glacial Spike On Attack
Indestructible
+300-370% Enhanced Damage (varies)
20% Bonus To Attack Rating
+50 To Attack Rating
Adds 1-50 Lightning Damage
7% Mana Stolen Per Hit
50% Chance of Crushing Blow
+(0.5 per Character Level) 0.5-49.5% Deadly Strike (Based on Character Level)
+1 To Light Radius
Level 22 Blood Golem (15 Charges)
Requirements -20%
OATH
30% Chance To Cast Level 20 Bone Spirit On Striking
Indestructible
+50% Increased Attack Speed
+210-340% Enhanced Damage (varies)
+75% Damage To Demons
+100 To Attack Rating Against Demons
Prevent Monster Heal
+10 To Energy
+10-15 Magic Absorb (varies)
Level 16 Heart Of Wolverine (20 Charges)
Level 17 Iron Golem (14 Charges)
For Zealots at least, to hit the last bp for zeal, you have to pack 60 offhand IAS; This limits your gear significantly which in pvp where flexibility is king is a pretty bad disadvantage. On the otherhand the DS is pretty godly and the crushing blow is gg for pvm.
And well HotO is not THAT big of an upgrade from a spirit sword; the difference can be quite easily overcome and for sorcs/necros there are better items.
And lastly a Vex I feel is in reach of most players with out too much playing due to hellforges.
However, if the majority of people feel that Gul and down would be better for the league I will implement that rule.
Edit: Mtzang: unfortunately for none RWM users, a good roll Oath is going to be pretty hard to beat, though unfortunately there is a large margin of error.
So we'll see what everyone else says but as of now its probably going to be Vex down or Gul down (Vex down would take out Death/HotO) both of which I dont' feel are powerful enough to be banned. Note* I plan on using a Death so I may be a bit biased, but I don't feel that Death is that much better than Oath in pvp to warrant a ban: its 50 IAS versus 45 DS + 20%AR basically if you look at the stats.
DEATH
100% Chance To Cast Level 44 Chain Lightning When You Die
25% Chance To Cast Level 18 Glacial Spike On Attack
Indestructible
+300-370% Enhanced Damage (varies)
20% Bonus To Attack Rating
+50 To Attack Rating
Adds 1-50 Lightning Damage
7% Mana Stolen Per Hit
50% Chance of Crushing Blow
+(0.5 per Character Level) 0.5-49.5% Deadly Strike (Based on Character Level)
+1 To Light Radius
Level 22 Blood Golem (15 Charges)
Requirements -20%
OATH
30% Chance To Cast Level 20 Bone Spirit On Striking
Indestructible
+50% Increased Attack Speed
+210-340% Enhanced Damage (varies)
+75% Damage To Demons
+100 To Attack Rating Against Demons
Prevent Monster Heal
+10 To Energy
+10-15 Magic Absorb (varies)
Level 16 Heart Of Wolverine (20 Charges)
Level 17 Iron Golem (14 Charges)
For Zealots at least, to hit the last bp for zeal, you have to pack 60 offhand IAS; This limits your gear significantly which in pvp where flexibility is king is a pretty bad disadvantage. On the otherhand the DS is pretty godly and the crushing blow is gg for pvm.
And well HotO is not THAT big of an upgrade from a spirit sword; the difference can be quite easily overcome and for sorcs/necros there are better items.
And lastly a Vex I feel is in reach of most players with out too much playing due to hellforges.
However, if the majority of people feel that Gul and down would be better for the league I will implement that rule.
Edit: Mtzang: unfortunately for none RWM users, a good roll Oath is going to be pretty hard to beat, though unfortunately there is a large margin of error.
I understand that of course rich people will always have an edge. However banning RW's evens the playing fields quite a lot. I mean just being able to have that strength bonus from enigma/beast is huge. Hopefully this will work out and its mostly just to find a community of pvpers to do duel this way; I don't care if the richer ones win the tourneys as long as the majority of the forum can feel they can duel with people who are in reach.
Sint Nikolaas
New member
About the o-skills.
o-skills are ''off-skills'' or ''off character skills''. These are skills that your character achieves trough charges or equipment with the +skill on it. Enigma armor is an often used example, it gives +1 to teleport, letting other character then sorceresses use teleport.
The way it was about a year back:
You can use o-skills when, and only when, your character is build around them. Examples are wolfbarbs and WW sins. These are characters that rely on the o-skill to even exist. Without a chaos claw you don't have a WW sin. This ofcourse means that noone can use the BO from CtA. Noone can use widowmaker's GA. Noone can use Beast runeword except for pallies.
The way I see it now (read: see litterally, come across in PvP games. Not see it as in ''this is my opinion'').:
O-skills are widely accepted. Quite a few normal builds even adapted them into their regular PvP scene or are using them on a frequent base. WW barb anyone? Beast, Widowmaker... Noone really thinks it's BM as everyone is using it.
My opinion.
I'm with the way it was a year back. Nothing is more frustrating then dueling a good duel, winning, but your opponent chickens out and runs to the edge of the map and starts chipping (or actually hurting alot with OW) your life away with widowmaker. I duel without CtA and IIRC only one of my PvP-ers has my CtA on him because he just came out of PvM.
IMO to keep your rules nice and clean just disallow o-skills. This will hurt builds (no wolfbarb), but at least you won't have everyone running around playing BM.
Furthermore, I think you're going the right way with disallowing runes Gul and above (or is it runes above Gul?).
Lastely: I agree with the no pre-buffing. Even though I pretty much do it with most my characters, it's not really necesarry in this ruleset. You can buff with the equipment you have or you can't buff.. Warcry javelins on switch or shadow claws are nice examples of how to still buff. It saves time and will keep rich players from getting the edge (as intended in the first place).
Very nice idea. I might join if I get internet. :smiley:
o-skills are ''off-skills'' or ''off character skills''. These are skills that your character achieves trough charges or equipment with the +skill on it. Enigma armor is an often used example, it gives +1 to teleport, letting other character then sorceresses use teleport.
The way it was about a year back:
You can use o-skills when, and only when, your character is build around them. Examples are wolfbarbs and WW sins. These are characters that rely on the o-skill to even exist. Without a chaos claw you don't have a WW sin. This ofcourse means that noone can use the BO from CtA. Noone can use widowmaker's GA. Noone can use Beast runeword except for pallies.
The way I see it now (read: see litterally, come across in PvP games. Not see it as in ''this is my opinion'').:
O-skills are widely accepted. Quite a few normal builds even adapted them into their regular PvP scene or are using them on a frequent base. WW barb anyone? Beast, Widowmaker... Noone really thinks it's BM as everyone is using it.
My opinion.
I'm with the way it was a year back. Nothing is more frustrating then dueling a good duel, winning, but your opponent chickens out and runs to the edge of the map and starts chipping (or actually hurting alot with OW) your life away with widowmaker. I duel without CtA and IIRC only one of my PvP-ers has my CtA on him because he just came out of PvM.
IMO to keep your rules nice and clean just disallow o-skills. This will hurt builds (no wolfbarb), but at least you won't have everyone running around playing BM.
Furthermore, I think you're going the right way with disallowing runes Gul and above (or is it runes above Gul?).
Lastely: I agree with the no pre-buffing. Even though I pretty much do it with most my characters, it's not really necesarry in this ruleset. You can buff with the equipment you have or you can't buff.. Warcry javelins on switch or shadow claws are nice examples of how to still buff. It saves time and will keep rich players from getting the edge (as intended in the first place).
Very nice idea. I might join if I get internet. :smiley:
I offer to use europe rules + baning runes above vex ( or alowing only one that contains HR ), also caping BO to 30, BS to 33.
And about tele, IMO it should be baned or used by all. IRC on euro rules tele is alowed for sorcs (other players frw caped at 80%) and sorcs dominates there.
And about tele, IMO it should be baned or used by all. IRC on euro rules tele is alowed for sorcs (other players frw caped at 80%) and sorcs dominates there.
richer people can get owned by poor people depends on the skill layout and strategy of the build. Yes rich people have nice sets/uniques while poor people have low sets/uniques or none but if a rich person is using a IK WW Barb for example if the poor person has good easy to achieve stuff on their Blizzsorc or something they could kill a rich person.
I'll search for those rules (dont remember where I saw them). IIRC there was few unbalanced rules, but we can build our DECA rules around those.
edit: http://www.ep-pvp.net/Rules.htm
edit2: ouchy, lots of...nasty rules
edit: http://www.ep-pvp.net/Rules.htm
edit2: ouchy, lots of...nasty rules
JihadJesus
New member
I like the idea of only allowing o-skills that are at the heart of a build, since it enables a lot of fun and competitive builds, but dissalowing 'non-essential' o skills like BO or Widowmaker. I'd also disallow runes above Vex; up to that level everyone can have some hope of eventually acquiring via Hellforges, so that seems reasonable to me.
