Crush And Blow Help

razen

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Jan 12, 2008
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Crush And Blow Help

I vaguely remembered that it had a cap in hell mode?

What is the lowest that cb can take down a monster's life? 10%?
(game info so confuzzled in my brain, my bad)

I am starting a SP necro, and I read the nightfish guide. I find the idea of 4 eth + cb very intriguing

(since so far, even in p8 normal, norm D destroyed 4 teams of 20/14 skeles before dead, and those skeles can't even dent Lister with amp, so I figure if I can CB to help my skeles out...)

I see the best gear right now is probably goblin toes, but of course... I have to FIND it. (Which totally sucks) so I might do the CB crafted glove formula (since pruby is much easier to find/transmute)

assuming I hit everytime, and a 10% cb roll... so 1/10 hits will take it down... how much again? cb takes 10% everytime or 25%?

(either way, if 10%... theoratically 100 hits to take down a boss monster right? and I read that amp dmg effect cb... in that the effect doubles? how does it work?)
 
Re: Crush And Blow Help

I vaguely remembered that it had a cap in hell mode?

What is the lowest that cb can take down a monster's life? 10%?
(game info so confuzzled in my brain, my bad)

There is no such cap for CB. Static has caps like that, though.

I am starting a SP necro, and I read the nightfish guide. I find the idea of 4 eth + cb very intriguing

(since so far, even in p8 normal, norm D destroyed 4 teams of 20/14 skeles before dead, and those skeles can't even dent Lister with amp, so I figure if I can CB to help my skeles out...)

I see the best gear right now is probably goblin toes, but of course... I have to FIND it. (Which totally sucks) so I might do the CB crafted glove formula (since pruby is much easier to find/transmute)

assuming I hit everytime, and a 10% cb roll... so 1/10 hits will take it down... how much again? cb takes 10% everytime or 25%?

From the wiki:
  • Normal monster: 1/4 Melee, 1/8 Ranged Attack.
  • Boss/Champion monster: 1/8 Melee, 1/16 Ranged Attack.
  • Player/Hireling: 1/10 Melee, 1/20 Ranged Attack.

(either way, if 10%... theoratically 100 hits to take down a boss monster right?

No. If it were 10%, then you take 10% of its current life at each hit. Since it's 12.5% (rounding down):

start: 493,701 life
1 hit w/ CB: 431988
2 hit w/ CB: 377989
3 hit w/ CB: 330741
4 hit w/ CB: 289398
5 hit w/ CB: 253223 ~51.3% of 493k

Of course, you're also doing some damage with the PB. But the point is that 5 hits does not take away 5*12.5=62.5%.

and I read that amp dmg effect cb... in that the effect doubles? how does it work?)

CB is only affected by DR if it is positive, so it will help against hell Baal by bringing his physical resist to 0, but you should use Decrepify instead.


 
Re: Crush And Blow Help

thanks! great help.

I just don't quite get the last part. assume cb hit hell baal... since his physical resistance is 50%, so i will bring his life down 1/16 right?

decrep if I read arreat correctly, reduce physical resistance by 50%, so now cb + decrep would take the normal 1/8 life against baal?

but then nightfish guide said something about amp damage move his physical resistance to -100%, and that is suppose to help cb somehow?

very confused... thanks for the help so far though!
 
Re: Crush And Blow Help

Your scenarios for Hell Baal with/without Decrepify are correct (for solo games at least - those numbers will decrease as you add more players to the game since CB doesn't scale up, but monster HP does).

As far as Crushing Blow goes, there's no such thing as a monster having negative physical resistance. So if you have Amp Damage against Hell Baal, it will also 'effectively' set his physical resists to 0% for the sake of your Crushing Blow, just like Decrepify does. Anything below 0% is discarded (for CB).

However, the other non-CB physical damage on your attacks (such as having a Skeleton Warrior whack Baal, or hitting him with your necro's wand) will work at the fully-adjusted resistance rate, without that 0% limit.

So Decrepify means the non-CB damage would go against an adjusted 0% physical resistance, but AmpDamage means your non-CB damage would go against an adjusted -50% physical resistance.
 
Re: Crush And Blow Help

I'd still decrepify baal. Decrep+gumby=easy kill.

I found it was good to start with Decrep, but once gumby got his first hit I'd switch over to Amp Damage, as the Gumby's slowing was plenty on its own.

To each his own though. :)



 
Re: Crush And Blow Help

I found it was good to start with Decrep, but once gumby got his first hit I'd switch over to Amp Damage, as the Gumby's slowing was plenty on its own.

To each his own though. :)

I've never tried that, but if you say it's better, then.....


 
Re: Crush And Blow Help

Your scenarios for Hell Baal with/without Decrepify are correct (for solo games at least - those numbers will decrease as you add more players to the game since CB doesn't scale up, but monster HP does).

As far as Crushing Blow goes, there's no such thing as a monster having negative physical resistance. So if you have Amp Damage against Hell Baal, it will also 'effectively' set his physical resists to 0% for the sake of your Crushing Blow, just like Decrepify does. Anything below 0% is discarded (for CB).

However, the other non-CB physical damage on your attacks (such as having a Skeleton Warrior whack Baal, or hitting him with your necro's wand) will work at the fully-adjusted resistance rate, without that 0% limit.

So Decrepify means the non-CB damage would go against an adjusted 0% physical resistance, but AmpDamage means your non-CB damage would go against an adjusted -50% physical resistance.

New confusion now...

What do you mean by doesn't scale up?
Does that mean you do less than 1/8 to baal if more than 1 player in game? (like 1/16 or something?)

Or is it still 1/8 of his total life?

(oh and I just realized after several post that, it's "crushing blow" not "crush and blow"

I was beginning to wonder why the skill sounded so dirty... haha

no wonder I return no search result when I searched with "crush and blow"

coincidentally, searching with google... when I typed in "crush and blow" + "diabloii" as keywords, I return with... a thread I created 2 years ago. Mistake from the past, BAM!)


 
Re: Crush And Blow Help

It means that the damage stays the same, while the monster's health goes up.

At 8 players, an originally 10k hp monster will now have 45k hp (iirc), but you'll still do 1/4 of 10k.
 
Re: Crush And Blow Help

It means that the damage stays the same, while the monster's health goes up.

At 8 players, an originally 10k hp monster will now have 45k hp (iirc), but you'll still do 1/4 of 10k.

that blows tremendously...

from arreat: Life = Hit Points * (Number of Players + 1) / 2

assume 8 players, so monster life is 4.5 (o haha, so that's where your 45 is from)

so... 2.5/45 is... 1/18???? god damn that's a harsh penalty to drop from 1/4 to 1/18... this game really isn't designed for p8 mode untwinked, huh?

well, thanks for clearing that up... so much for necro crushING blowing hell baal in p8


 
Re: Crush And Blow Help

Well, CB didn't get it any harsher than most other damage sources. Think of it like this: if your CB hits at /p1 are (at the start of the fight) more powerful than your normal hit damage, then the statement remains true at /p8 since both damages remain unchanged.

I think the only thing (player dmg-wise) that does scale with player count is Static Field.
 
Re: Crush And Blow Help

I'm not sure I entirely agree with his logic, but I don't entirely disagree with it either.

I agree with him. At higher player counts, CB is less less effective than normal attacks are, just more less effective than it could be if it scaled up. See, simple.:whistling:

Less tongue in cheek, CB does more damage at higher player counts, it's just less devastating since it deals proportionally less damage than it does at lower player counts. But at any player count, having CB is still better than not having it.


 
Re: Crush And Blow Help

Actually, Tubba recently pointed out an interesting point of Crushing Blow and higher player settings to me: http://www.purediablo.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7403145&postcount=8

I'm not sure I entirely agree with his logic, but I don't entirely disagree with it either.

Really, his argument is only effective if you know for certain that CB actually does, in essence, become a different % of life taken on a higher players setting.

Hm, not sure if that was clear (enjoying a moderate fever here :p ). Let me try again. If, on players8, CB actually takes 1/18th monster life- as calculated in this thread- then TB's argument is true. If, OTOH, it takes off an amount of life equal to 1/4 of the current HP bar at players1- if the game figures how much life the monster would have left if it were players 1, and then uses that to calculate CB damage- then CB becomes less attractive. At that point, upping pure damage dealt would be a higher concern.

Now, the second way is a lot more complicated and convoluted. If we hadn't already seen before now that Blizzard can and will do things in the most jackass way possible, I'd say that the second scenario is unreasonable. Under the present circumstances, though, I'd rather hear from someone who knows how this game really works than make unwarranted assumptions about the coding that went into this game.


 
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