Classic OT thread
- Thread starter Dacar92
- Start date
Zodijackyl
New member
Byaxident said:
Shotguns are fair game for hunting birds.
Shotguns and rifles are often made for hunting, pistols are not.
Pistols are made for target shooting and self defense.
The existance of guns in America could not be stopped. They were posessed by militia men during the revolution, and they kept them and made more, improved them, and were widely needed for well over 100 years when the nation was expanding and still holding back the british.
And once there are so many guns, you can't take them away. But on the other side, with new technology, we're armed and nobody can even try to invade.
Zodijackyl said:
No offense but I don't think that its people like you with magnums under their pillow that would be the main factor in repelling an invasion.
IMO, theres absolutely no reason why the general public should be allowed to get their hands on firearms, especially weapons that arent made for hunting. Im not gona try to convince you or even going to explain why I feel that way because I know americans really do love them guns.
Zodijackyl
New member
Byaxident said:
The people who own guns might not be the main factor, but if anyone tried they wouldn't get far.
Switzerland requires every male over the age of 18 to own a gun. There is one full automatic weapon for approx. every 10 adults, and the government issues ammunition.
Significantly lower murder rate than England & Wales, eh?Kiwi Legend said:
Here's why we needs guns here.
Revolution, had to fight a war against the British.
Our national armed forces were still being established, and in many ways our only option to protect many local areas was to own guns. Thus, our constitution included the right to bear arms, a well regulated militia, etc. After we kicked the British bastards out of our country, they still kept fighting, and we required these for our nation's safety. When we expanded west, we needed guns to kick anyone off the land we wanted. When the British came westward, they brought guns, everyone did when they forged on and colonized new areas.
After this, there were already many guns present. Had the ownership of guns been outlawed, not only would we have needed to modify our constitution, but we would have needed to take guns away from many law-abiding citizens who felt they were necessary to protect their nation. Even if all of the law-abiding citizens had given up their guns, there would still be plenty in the hands of those who did not abide by the laws. Good people without guns and bad people with guns, such a great idea? So we keep our guns, they protect us and our rights. An oppressive government can not come to power due to this right. And may I remind you that British colonists brought guns here first.
Why do we need guns that aren't for hunting? A weapon used for hunting could easily be used to harm a person. A criminal will use it for this purpose, not a law abiding citizen, so we have handguns for self defense. Were handguns not legal, then only criminals would have them, giving them another advantage over citizens who they might victimize with violent acts.
How often is someone legally carrying a gun for self defense murdered? Very infrequently.
I also strongly recommend that you read this site.
http://www.gunfacts.info/
If I where a criminal, facing one person with a gun and one without, I would shoot the one with the gun.
Wasn't there this amusing story a while back about some guy, getting chased by the police after a shootout, then he ran out of bullits, he just broke into a random house and picked up a fresh weapon there ?
No wonder fps games have all this ammo lying around, it's real, in the U.S.
I'd say, to each their own. Even in the U.S. there are those in favor and those against guns.
Personally, and I say this from a tree-hugging-hippy attitude, I wouldn't endanger my family by having a gun lying around. Stabbing and maiming with pieces or furnature is one thing, but let's not have accidental shootings.
People's greatest fear, bessides 'cows with guns', is their very young kids with their guns.
How would/do you resolve this, Steve, since you are well-informed about guns, you probably also know about gun-safety. On the one hand, you don't want it to be too easy for a youngster to combine your gun with your ammo, so you keep the ammo or the gun locked up somewhere, but you don't want it to be too hard, since you need easy access if you find somebody snooping around in your house.
Just curious about what safety you have in place. Since I will probably never own a gun, I can't realistically think about these things.
on a sidenote, does the e-book from that site read a bit like chucknorrisfacts ?
Wasn't there this amusing story a while back about some guy, getting chased by the police after a shootout, then he ran out of bullits, he just broke into a random house and picked up a fresh weapon there ?
No wonder fps games have all this ammo lying around, it's real, in the U.S.
I'd say, to each their own. Even in the U.S. there are those in favor and those against guns.
Personally, and I say this from a tree-hugging-hippy attitude, I wouldn't endanger my family by having a gun lying around. Stabbing and maiming with pieces or furnature is one thing, but let's not have accidental shootings.
People's greatest fear, bessides 'cows with guns', is their very young kids with their guns.
How would/do you resolve this, Steve, since you are well-informed about guns, you probably also know about gun-safety. On the one hand, you don't want it to be too easy for a youngster to combine your gun with your ammo, so you keep the ammo or the gun locked up somewhere, but you don't want it to be too hard, since you need easy access if you find somebody snooping around in your house.
Just curious about what safety you have in place. Since I will probably never own a gun, I can't realistically think about these things.
on a sidenote, does the e-book from that site read a bit like chucknorrisfacts ?
Kiwi Legend
New member
Shouldn't 200 billion on "Defense" spending allow you americans to stop having a 200 year old mentailty of defending your home from foreign invasion?
And...
Assault rifle, Tec 9, Sorry I just throw these types of words in the same pool. Both rip holes in people at a very alarming rate
Kevin William Cox
New member
I can clear this up. It's quite simple.
My president is George W. Bush Jr.
I need a freakin gun, maybe two or three.
$200 billion on defence, and who's in charge?
I need a freakin gun, maybe four or five.
In the UK, Tony Blair is your Prime Minster.
You don't need a gun? Maybe two or three?
Seriously, I live in Japan. There are no guns here. Well, shotguns for hunting, but to get a license you need to be a demi-god. Other than that, only the Mafia and the Police have guns. And the Mafia ONLY uses them in very tight sitiuations. Like a boss killing a boss type of thing. The police would come down like a ton of bricks. So the average joe gets it with a baseball bat or a knife. Since guns are hard to get or smuggle in, the price can range from $2000 to $20,000 dollars, depending on the type. And that doesn't include ammo. So like Zodi said, only the bad people and the police have guns, but the bad people aren't stupid enough to use them on a common mugging or robbery and take a chance on getting caught. If I was living in the states back home, yes I would buy and own a gun. Though it would be a shotgun for home defense, laugh if you want to. Handguns I feel should be banned, along with any kind of semi-automatic, automatic, and assualt weapons. Tell me someone who hunts with those? I agree with the right ot bear arms, but I don't think our forefathers meant for us to do it with Tec-9's. Just my opinion.
Kev
My president is George W. Bush Jr.
I need a freakin gun, maybe two or three.
$200 billion on defence, and who's in charge?
I need a freakin gun, maybe four or five.
In the UK, Tony Blair is your Prime Minster.
You don't need a gun? Maybe two or three?
Seriously, I live in Japan. There are no guns here. Well, shotguns for hunting, but to get a license you need to be a demi-god. Other than that, only the Mafia and the Police have guns. And the Mafia ONLY uses them in very tight sitiuations. Like a boss killing a boss type of thing. The police would come down like a ton of bricks. So the average joe gets it with a baseball bat or a knife. Since guns are hard to get or smuggle in, the price can range from $2000 to $20,000 dollars, depending on the type. And that doesn't include ammo. So like Zodi said, only the bad people and the police have guns, but the bad people aren't stupid enough to use them on a common mugging or robbery and take a chance on getting caught. If I was living in the states back home, yes I would buy and own a gun. Though it would be a shotgun for home defense, laugh if you want to. Handguns I feel should be banned, along with any kind of semi-automatic, automatic, and assualt weapons. Tell me someone who hunts with those? I agree with the right ot bear arms, but I don't think our forefathers meant for us to do it with Tec-9's. Just my opinion.
Kev
Kiwi Legend
New member
Im confused
Zodijackyl
New member
WarlockCC said:If I where a criminal, facing one person with a gun and one without, I would shoot the one with the gun.
Wasn't there this amusing story a while back about some guy, getting chased by the police after a shootout, then he ran out of bullits, he just broke into a random house and picked up a fresh weapon there ?
No wonder fps games have all this ammo lying around, it's real, in the U.S.
I'd say, to each their own. Even in the U.S. there are those in favor and those against guns.
Personally, and I say this from a tree-hugging-hippy attitude, I wouldn't endanger my family by having a gun lying around. Stabbing and maiming with pieces or furnature is one thing, but let's not have accidental shootings.
People's greatest fear, bessides 'cows with guns', is their very young kids with their guns.
How would/do you resolve this, Steve, since you are well-informed about guns, you probably also know about gun-safety. On the one hand, you don't want it to be too easy for a youngster to combine your gun with your ammo, so you keep the ammo or the gun locked up somewhere, but you don't want it to be too hard, since you need easy access if you find somebody snooping around in your house.
Just curious about what safety you have in place. Since I will probably never own a gun, I can't realistically think about these things.
on a sidenote, does the e-book from that site read a bit like chucknorrisfacts ?
If you own (a) firearm(s) for the purpose of hunting, you keep them in a gun safe, or if you have kids and you don't want them around guns, even locked up in a safe, then store them in a family member or close friend's gun safe.
If you own a gun for the purpose of home defense, you keep it well concealed but ready to use, AND YOU ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS HAVE A TRIGGER LOCK ON IT, ESPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE CHILDREN. If you have small children, then you hopefully live in a neighborhood where home defense isn't too much of an issue, but you keep it, WITH A TRIGGER LOCK, somewhere accessible to you, but not at all to the kids. Once your kids are old enough, you teach them gun safety yourself, and you still don't let them know where you keep the gun, but you KEEP THE TRIGGER LOCK ON IT and you could place it somewhere more accessible, because you should be able to trust that your child would never remove it from this place, even if THE TRIGGER LOCK would render it useless to them. If you do happen to live in a bad neighborhood where you need it close by, then you probably carry a pistol with you during the day, WITH A PERMIT, and store it nearby, WITH A TRIGGER LOCK, while you are asleep, as are your children. It would probably be stored in a drawer nearby where you could get to it in two seconds, but your children would not be able to find it.
Anyone who leaves a gun "just lying around" is not fit to own a firearm, and if they have children, they are not fit to be a parent. And I never heard of any story like that. Very few, if any Americans just leave guns lying around. Those who legally own firearms cherish that right, and the protect it, and they know how to safely store and use them.
As for chucknorrisfacts, that list followed the format of traditional FACT OR FICTION, and it also stopped being funny about 2 years ago.
Kevin William Cox said:
Tony Blair is your Prime Minister.
For a THIRD term.
You need only one gun. And only one bullet, unless you can't aim at yourself.
Kiwi Legend said:
You missed my point, we needed the guns for a long period for the purpose of national security and militias, and at no point would have ever been able to eliminate. The British colonists brought them here, and when the British fought us, we had guns, some made here, some brought by them. So it really is their problem in the first place if they don't like us owning guns.
And you shouldn't throw those terms in the same pool, because referring to a semi-auto pistol as an assault rifle will make anyone who knows much of anything on the issue think you are an idiot, and likely ignore you.
Kiwi Legend
New member
Your pretty arrogant hey Zod?
Back when Columbine happened I thought they described the Tec 9's the kids were using as automatic weapons, either way using the word assault rifle was wrong I apologise, however most none yankee hillbilly's will make a similar mistake.
Take deep breaths now, the last sentence in that paragraph was a joke and should be taken as such.
Lets just leave it, basically you like your guns and think they make you safer in day to day life. I disagree but both of us midaswell be slamming our heads into brick walls because there is no chance of changing the others views.
Cheerio
OT threads are dangerous because people get into arguments and start name calling and questioning other's mental state. Just be careful what you write. Make sure no one can take what you're writing the wrong way. That is how arguments start and people get banned for that.
There are good opinions and ideas on this thread. I would enjoy having constructive conversations on the topics people have brought up. All I am asking is can we turn these arguments filled with vague abstractions into conversations?
Many words of wisdom...
Desiderata
Go placidly amid the noise and haste,
and remember what peace there may be in silence.
As far as possible without surrender
be on good terms with all persons.
Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
and listen to others,
even the dull and the ignorant;
they too have their story.
Avoid loud and aggressive persons,
they are vexations to the spirit.
If you compare yourself with others,
you may become vain and bitter;
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.
Keep interested in your own career, however humble;
it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.
Exercise caution in your business affairs;
for the world is full of trickery.
But let this not blind you to what virtue there is;
many persons strive for high ideals;
and everywhere life is full of heroism.
Be yourself.
Especially, do not feign affection.
Neither be cynical about love;
for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment
it is as perennial as the grass.
Take kindly the counsel of the years,
gracefully surrendering the things of youth.
Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune.
But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings.
Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.
Beyond a wholesome discipline,
be gentle with yourself.
You are a child of the universe,
no less than the trees and the stars;
you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you,
no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
Therefore be at peace with God,
whatever you conceive Him to be,
and whatever your labors and aspirations,
in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams,
it is still a beautiful world.
Be cheerful.
Strive to be happy.
-Max Ehrmann
Many words of wisdom...
Desiderata
Go placidly amid the noise and haste,
and remember what peace there may be in silence.
As far as possible without surrender
be on good terms with all persons.
Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
and listen to others,
even the dull and the ignorant;
they too have their story.
Avoid loud and aggressive persons,
they are vexations to the spirit.
If you compare yourself with others,
you may become vain and bitter;
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.
Keep interested in your own career, however humble;
it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.
Exercise caution in your business affairs;
for the world is full of trickery.
But let this not blind you to what virtue there is;
many persons strive for high ideals;
and everywhere life is full of heroism.
Be yourself.
Especially, do not feign affection.
Neither be cynical about love;
for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment
it is as perennial as the grass.
Take kindly the counsel of the years,
gracefully surrendering the things of youth.
Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune.
But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings.
Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.
Beyond a wholesome discipline,
be gentle with yourself.
You are a child of the universe,
no less than the trees and the stars;
you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you,
no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
Therefore be at peace with God,
whatever you conceive Him to be,
and whatever your labors and aspirations,
in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams,
it is still a beautiful world.
Be cheerful.
Strive to be happy.
-Max Ehrmann
Zodijackyl
New member
Kiwi Legend said:
A lot of the media described Tec 9's and other weapons incorrectly, and most anyone who knew what they were talking about thought they were idiots and got their news from other sources. I know you're smarter than most people, and you should know a bit more about guns, as they're all over the world. With a war breaking out in the Middle East, perhaps owning a gun wouldn't be such a terrible idea when two religious extremist groups are trying to get the rest of the world involved.
My girls won the game last night. There was quite the controversy on an umpire's judgement call. But we won and we play today for the tournament championship. We will either have first or second place. These kids have a lot of heart and I think they can win. But we do not know the other team at all. We have no idea what we'll be facing. So we'll see. Wish us luck. I'll be back tonight with all the news.
Kiwi Legend
New member
Dacar92 said:
Other then being called an Idiot by zod (pretty much). I think people with completely different views on very powerful raw topics have kept it cool well enough. Considering were just a bunch of D2 nerds...hehe
Kiwi Legend
New member
Zodijackyl said:
I just can't see how more guns in the hands of the general public can possibly make things safer.
There is about as much chance of getting a soj in norm den of evil as me being persuaded to get anything more powerful then a 22.
I just came back from lunch with my girlfriend, and there were a few interesting things that happened on the way back home. We went into some restaurant and just happened to catch the ending of a fistfight between two guys that was broken up by the police over the World Cup game between France and Italy. There was too much commotion going on in there, so we decided on eating at the Taco Bell that was a little farther down the road. After we finished, I drove her back to her house, and amazingly, we see the same two guys from the restaurant duking it out on the side of the road. The traffic was slow since most people were watching the fight, and I didn't get to watch much of it, but I did turn my head in time to see the taller of the two men falling flat on the ground after a mean uppercut.
And I thought people didn't care much about soccer here in the US, but apparently, I stand corrected. :shocked:
- Akukami
And I thought people didn't care much about soccer here in the US, but apparently, I stand corrected. :shocked:
- Akukami
Kiwi Legend
New member
Akukami said:
Good story..
Kevin William Cox
New member
Kiwi Legend said:
Then you do agree with the right to bear arms. Just nothing more powerful than a 22? I'm confused.
Actually, I agree with you to a certain extent. So don't take this the wrong way. But I would go for a little more than a 22. Hunting rifles are much more powerful than a 22. But I don't think you need a Tec 9 for home defense or to hunt.
Kev
Kiwi Legend
New member
Kevin William Cox said:
22 is a very small step above a decent pellet gun. I dont mind the idea of shooting some cans off a farmers fence. Also a 22 isnt going to kill anyone.
Gloc's, Tec 9's, AK-47's are a different story. These are designed for killing people and used in the miltary.
Ill tell you why it scares me having any average joe able to bare these types of arms, THERE ARE SO MANY NUT JOBS IN OUR SOCIETY. Atleast if a guy pulls a knife you can run. Anyone ever seen the movie "Fallen"?
