Classic OT thread

[Zodijackyl]

You guys are there for the money and power.

We very well might be, and you aren't alone in thinking that. And who is going to stop us? Nobody has the power to, and nobody is going to be able to turn the international community (governments) against us sufficiently to stop what we do.

 

[WarlockCC]

US will not do what it wants, it will only persue business interests.

Just to be nitpicking, Holland is only a part of the Netherworld, or the Netherlands as other people tend to call it :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holland
Yes, I read the latter part of the first line there, but in light of the actual meaning, don't you agree it's better to use the real name of it ?
We don't go around calling the US 'Washington', just because the governing bodies are there and most people know it's in that country which is on the south of the continent of North America.

And about 'helping', perhaps the other countries felt obligated to clean up the mess left behind, because we are supposed to be the civilized world.

Seriously though, Washington can't do what it wants, for instance, I don't see, what was it, North Korea (?) turned into a giant parking lot for their nuclear testing.

Or Vietnam for that matter, though I believe that to be a different story of which only a few people know the full scope. It would be interesting to learn more about it, as it is history, but I don't think I will ever learn all the reasons why Washington's militairy actions there failed way back in the last century.

And while we are on the subject of China, Iraq/Taliban and Washington, which country do you all play in C&C Generals ?

Please note that most of the above is meant in jest and I don't want my secret vulcano fortress to be invaded by a freedom force.

 

[Zodijackyl]

"Holland" is often used in English and other languages to mean the whole of the Netherlands.

I posted that around 3AM by the way. The sources I was using referred to troops from Holland, not the Netherlands, and I didn't think to correct it having been awake for far too long.

 

[Locke07]

Saddam Hussein had powerful conventional weapons, and repeatedly threatened to use them against the United States. This is a good reason to invade. Any reasonably intelligent and informed person will know Saddam Hussein and Al-Qaeda were actually enemies, but the dumb people group them together because they're both muslim extremists. Does it matter if yoi think that we're helping the Iraqi people? Does it matter if the general public of any nation thinks this? No, it doesn't. We have enough support from what we are doing in Iraq and nobody is willing to stop us. Your comments about how frivolous these invasions were just proves my point even better. The United States can do whatever the hell we want, and the international community is going to follow us. Who opposes us? France and Germany have withheld troops, but are they going to try to stop us? No way in hell.



Enough foreign governments have send troops to aid in Iraq, and governments have voiced their approval of the operation, regardless of what their people think. Is anyone going to oppose what we do? "You're either with us, or you're with the terrorists", and nobody wants the US to be against them. What nations have sent troops to Iraq to assist in the US endeavor? Here's a few:
Albania, Armenia, Australia, Azerbaijan, Boznia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Canada, Czech Republic, Denmark, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Estonia, Fiji, Georgia, Great Britain, Holland, Honduras, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Japan, Kazakhstan, Latvia, Lithuania, Macedonia, Moldova, Mongolia, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Norway, Philippines, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Singapore, Slovakia, South Korea, Spain, Thailand, Tonga, Ukraine
Both France and Germany currently have their own troops supporting the US in Afghanistan, and Thursday Bush is meeting with the new German Chancellor to discuss sending German troops to Iraq.
Enough support? All of these countries have sent military personnel to support the United States in its actions, even if France and Germany don't want to.
Now, can ANY other nation invade another and gain such great international support? Can any other developed nation do this without massive disapproval from other governments, strong enough to lead to sanctions and possible military action against them? No other government can even try to declare a war or invade a hostile nation like we can. We can support this without looting the spoils of war. Where does all this Iraqi oil go anyway? A lot of it goes to China. The US gets most of their oil from North and South America. The amount of oil harvested in Iraq can slightly effect the overall price of oil in the world, but with Saddam Hussein out of power, there's one less crazy idiot to voice his opinion in OPEC. The process currently in progress in Afghanistan and Iraq is intended to help spread Democracy and more advanced society to that region, and also the military efforts to curb militant Islam are certainly helping the region.
So what is the US doing in the Middle East? We're invading and rebuilding the world more to our liking, and we can keep our homeland in great upkeep while rebuilding and running 2 other countries to our liking.
Can China do this? No way in hell. China will never be able to catch up to the US in this aspect. They might be able to have a huge industrial ouput by using the billion more people they have as slave laborers, but their current government is nowhere near capable of the stable society, advanced technology, military power, and international influence the US has.

To what have you said you should be scaring yourself. First and formost yes the US is the most powerful country in the world. Do you know where Hussien recieved those unconventional weapons. It was us. Do you know that Saudi Arabia has WMD's and though we seem to discriminate. The issue of Iraq I will not debate with you, I am sure it is deep rooted somewhere that in both of us we could not come to an agreement. However, to think that China will not catch up to us in terms of economical power is absurd. It is expected within 50 years they will be buying more Oil than the US. The person that buys the most gets the best price. Econ 101. On top China is actually a huge player in US currency and has said several times that it will remove its hold on US currency which could be catastrophey for us. China is exploiting its one thing that the US can never exploit. People. We are all a nation of individuals that deep down want whats best for everyone. China seems to lack that mentality and that is the reason why it can suceed at Capitalism better than we can.

 

[Zodijackyl]

To what have you said you should be scaring yourself. First and formost yes the US is the most powerful country in the world. Do you know where Hussien recieved those unconventional weapons.

They're conventional weapons, and they were recieved from different places, some built in Iraq, some Soviet, some American, some European.

Do you know that Saudi Arabia has WMD's and though we seem to discriminate.

Saudi Arabia remains open to diplomatic negotiations, and they do not repeatedly threaten us with them. Saddam Hussein did.

The issue of Iraq I will not debate with you, I am sure it is deep rooted somewhere that in both of us we could not come to an agreement. However, to think that China will not catch up to us in terms of economical power is absurd. It is expected within 50 years they will be buying more Oil than the US.

The US is also focusing on cutting back Oil use, and relying on cleaner and more efficient energy sources. You can also pour a nice tall glass of sulfuric acid and drink it, and it'll be enough to represent the amount produced per capita in China till Saturday.

The person that buys the most gets the best price. Econ 101. On top China is actually a huge player in US currency and has said several times that it will remove its hold on US currency which could be catastrophey for us.

The person who protects you gets a better price. Cops get free coffee. The US can get cheap oil from countries we invade. China isn't going to do **** with the international economy, because anything they do would hurt them much more than it would hurt us. The US is strong enough to take it, they aren't. Of course, communist states haven't had much of a problem with their economies collapsing, seeing as a communist state's economy collapses every time Paris Hilton gets a new STD. A lot.

China is exploiting its one thing that the US can never exploit. People.

Capitalist American corporation exploit hundreds of millions of these people to make our clothes, toys, whatever they please. American corporations have more actual control over the chinese population than their government does, except at gunpoint.

We are all a nation of individuals that deep down want whats best for everyone. China seems to lack that mentality and that is the reason why it can suceed at Capitalism better than we can.

China isn't succeeding. Sure they're making some money in the international market, but they're not good at capitalism. Industries are essentially controlled by the PRC government, and factories are also controlled by American corporations. The government controlling industries, not the people... that's not capitalism....

 

[Kiwi Legend]

US will not do what it wants, it will only persue business interests.

Just to be nitpicking, Holland is only a part of the Netherworld, or the Netherlands as other people tend to call it :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holland
Yes, I read the latter part of the first line there, but in light of the actual meaning, don't you agree it's better to use the real name of it ?
We don't go around calling the US 'Washington', just because the governing bodies are there and most people know it's in that country which is on the south of the continent of North America.

And about 'helping', perhaps the other countries felt obligated to clean up the mess left behind, because we are supposed to be the civilized world.

Seriously though, Washington can't do what it wants, for instance, I don't see, what was it, North Korea (?) turned into a giant parking lot for their nuclear testing.

Or Vietnam for that matter, though I believe that to be a different story of which only a few people know the full scope. It would be interesting to learn more about it, as it is history, but I don't think I will ever learn all the reasons why Washington's militairy actions there failed way back in the last century.

And while we are on the subject of China, Iraq/Taliban and Washington, which country do you all play in C&C Generals ?

Please note that most of the above is meant in jest and I don't want my secret vulcano fortress to be invaded by a freedom force.

Great post lol

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Washington I mean America is the current bully in the playground, time will pass, all the littleuns will begin to hit puberty, they will gang up on the rude fat bastard and bring him down. Time and time again Empire's rise and fall and the current "democratic" America is no different. They have begun there dissent.
You are the power house of the world Economically it is true, to bad your people have to put canadian flags on your backpacks and suit cases when travelling.

 

[Byaxident]

Rofl......

 

[Zodijackyl]

Great post lol

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Washington I mean America is the current bully in the playground, time will pass, all the littleuns will begin to hit puberty, they will gang up on the rude fat bastard and bring him down. Time and time again Empire's rise and fall and the current "democratic" America is no different. They have begun there dissent.
You are the power house of the world Economically it is true, to bad your people have to put canadian flags on your backpacks and suit cases when travelling.

Too bad you can't own guns in the UK.

 

[Zodijackyl]

I'm going to go buy a canoe. Is that off topic enough? I don't have much boating experience, sure I know how to row a canoe and things like that in general, but I haven't planned or thought about this at all in the past.

 

[Kiwi Legend]

Too bad you can't own guns in the UK.

Sorry zod But I couldnt help myself. You did raise a lot of valid points and when it comes to strength economically it is true, the US has no equal at present.

For the record Im a canuck in the UK, and the bonus of no guns over here is people arn't offing each other by the thousands.

A foreign invasion or "The Man" coming over the hill argument for Americans to own guns is just plain silly, for the simple reason that North America is to isolated from the powers that would be intersted in such a thing, and those powers do realise that America has the willingness to just let loose on that Nuclear arsenal if **** really does hit the fan.

The canoe thing. Prepare yourself for some good fun, NICE PURCHASE!

 

[superdave]

I'm going to go buy a canoe. Is that off topic enough? I don't have much boating experience, sure I know how to row a canoe and things like that in general, but I haven't planned or thought about this at all in the past.

paddle a canoe...not row....i had a nice 16' cedar strip built for me...it's nice in open waters...not something that you would want to take anywhere near rocks thought...it's too pretty, i wouldn't want to scratch it. :embarassed:

 

[Zodijackyl]

Sorry zod But I couldnt help myself. You did raise a lot of valid points and when it comes to strength economically it is true, the US has no equal at present.

For the record Im a canuck in the UK, and the bonus of no guns over here is people arn't offing each other by the thousands.

The problem is that people see themselves better off without guns. The US doesn't have a problem with gangs of 13 year olds burning people with cigarettes and people taking hostages with ****ing steak knives. Enough people are brutally attacked in the UK

UK
~60m people
Violent crime: 289,500 (2003)

USA
~300m people
Violent crime: 1,367,009 (2004)

Comparatively the same? If people are going to be murdered and there are no guns around, they'll just die in a prolonged and considerably more painful manner.

A foreign invasion or "The Man" coming over the hill argument for Americans to own guns is just plain silly, for the simple reason that North America is to isolated from the powers that would be intersted in such a thing, and those powers do realise that America has the willingness to just let loose on that Nuclear arsenal if **** really does hit the fan.

And when someone illegally obtains a firearm in the UK, even the police don't have guns to fight back with. Upstanding UK citizens can not own guns legally, so they will not. Criminals will get them anyway, even if it is more difficult in a country where they try to keep them out, they're still there. So what do you defend yourselves from criminals with? Someone who smuggles an assault rifle into the country could go on a killing spree and kill hundreds easily (if he brought enough ammo) with nobody to stop him. Your police can't have guns, they need to call in your ****ing army. Someone opens fire in the US, police are there fast and shoot the ****er.

The canoe thing. Prepare yourself for some good fun, NICE PURCHASE!

paddle a canoe...not row....i had a nice 16' cedar strip built for me...it's nice in open waters...not something that you would want to take anywhere near rocks thought...it's too pretty, i wouldn't want to scratch it.

Turns out the place I intended to purchase one didn't stock them any more (they sold kayaks instead, which I think are just canoes on gay fuel), then the next place overpriced them greatly. A cheap plastic thing was $350US, and it didn't even come with seats. They didn't have nice ones, even for a high price. So I bought an inflatable raft that was cheap, then found out I couldn't bring it on my local lake (returned it today). Later last night my brother was talking to his best friend, who mentioned to his family, good friends of ours, that we went to buy a canoe around 10PM, and his dad offered to give us an older one they had. Free aluminum canoe, vintage 1973 but still good condition and works well. wheeeeee!

Today my guitars finally got here. BC Rich Warlock guitar+bass. Went to Guitar Center to pick up a bass amp for my brother, and some picks. Playing guitar with bare fingers is not advisable. Especially heavy metal.
First full song played on my new guitar: Zombie Ritual by Death

 

[Dacar92]

This is the kind of debate I was hoping to stimulate. Thanks for getting into it guys. I am sorry that I have not been able to participate. I have been extremely busy at work trying to pin down a pretty large contract.

Also, my girls softball team, that I coach, is in the hunt for the number one seed in a tournament and we have one more game Friday and then it is the final on Saturday. We won tonight 9-8. It was tied going into the last inning and we only needed one run and we got it! If we win Friday we play for first in the tournament. If we lose, we play for third.

I have too many things to think about let alone politics. But I love to debate so I will be back!

 

[Zodijackyl]

Good luck with the softball games. Just remember, Barry Bonds drank Juicy Juice as a kid, and now he's on the other Juicy Juice.

Today I spent a solid 6+ hours playing guitar, and also...
-Drove to a nearby city to get paperwork to prove I exist and am not a terrorist to the Department of Homeland Security doesn't close my bank account
-Went to the bank, had the manager immediately remove the hold from my bank account then call the DHS and get very mad at them for messing up his customers accounts for information that is on the account itself and was sent to them separately
-Went to another nearby city to return a large inflatable boat which I impulse purchased last night around 10PM because all their canoes sucked
-Walked around the newly renovated and amazing huge mall that is at least five times the size of the old one, which was pretty big as is
-Went to Taco Bell and ended up their for half an hour because somehow they can not count order numbers and skipped my brothers order, which it turned out was given to me labeled with a different number, while mine was nowhere to be found.
-Went to Guitar Center, tried a few pieces of equipment, and had to resist impule purchasing a Warwick Corvette bass (Retail $4500, on sale for $2800) with my savings, bought a small bass amp for recording
-Went to a great local gun store where I discussed with a few employees and other customers the practicality of changing my address to another state temporarily so I could buy certain firearms, found out that nobody stocks the head space gauge my brother needs before we can safely fire one of his rifles, found out that I could bulk order 7.62 ammo from the former Soviet Union for a very low price

Typing this has been a reminder to myself of what I did today. Would anyone else like to post the transgressions of their day?

 

[Kiwi Legend]

The problem is that people see themselves better off without guns. The US doesn't have a problem with gangs of 13 year olds burning people with cigarettes and people taking hostages with ****ing steak knives. Enough people are brutally attacked in the UK

UK
~60m people
Violent crime: 289,500 (2003)

USA
~300m people
Violent crime: 1,367,009 (2004)

Comparatively the same? If people are going to be murdered and there are no guns around, they'll just die in a prolonged and considerably more painful manner.

And when someone illegally obtains a firearm in the UK, even the police don't have guns to fight back with. Upstanding UK citizens can not own guns legally, so they will not. Criminals will get them anyway, even if it is more difficult in a country where they try to keep them out, they're still there. So what do you defend yourselves from criminals with? Someone who smuggles an assault rifle into the country could go on a killing spree and kill hundreds easily (if he brought enough ammo) with nobody to stop him. Your police can't have guns, they need to call in your ****ing army. Someone opens fire in the US, police are there fast and shoot the ****er.

Violent crime statistics? Im more interested in Murder as this is a direct connection guns. Blowing someone's head off is a final choice.
2000. World
Homicide Rates.
Descending order.

50.14 South Africa
21.40 Russia (1999)
10.00 Lithuania
_9.94 Estonia
_6.22 Latvia
_5.64 U.S.A.
_2.94 Spain
_2.86 Finland
_2.84 Northern Ireland
_2.72 Czech Republic
_2.65 Slovakia
_2.58 New Zealand
_2.50 Romania
_2.31 Turkey (1999)
_2.23 Poland
_2.11 Scotland
_2.04 Hungary
_1.97 Sweden
_1.81 Australia
_1.79 France
_1.76 Canada
_1.61 England & Wales
_1.54 Belgium
_1.50 Greece
_1.48 Ireland (Eire)
_1.42 Netherlands
_1.42 Italy
_1.41 Slovenia
_1.24 Portugal
_1.17 Germany
_1.10 Japan
_1.09 Norway
_1.09 Denmark
_1.06 Malta
_1.01 Austria
_0.96 Switzerland
_0.60 Cyprus
_0.23 Luxembourg

Brits have an "armed response unit" that goes in if there is suspected dangerous situations. People have more respect for cops and wouldnt dream of attacking them over here.

 

[Zodijackyl]

I still don't believe that the presence of guns in a country causes violence. What portion of the murders by firearm were committed with legally purches guns, and how many with illegally obtained guns?

If a well equipped army were to invade the UK though, it would be much easier than invading the US however.

And don't forget what got us here. The right to bear arms, a well regulated militia... thats how we kicked England's *** out of here in the first place.

 

[Kiwi Legend]

I still don't believe that the presence of guns in a country causes violence. What portion of the murders by firearm were committed with legally purches guns, and how many with illegally obtained guns?

If a well equipped army were to invade the UK though, it would be much easier than invading the US however.

And don't forget what got us here. The right to bear arms, a well regulated militia... thats how we kicked England's *** out of here in the first place.

To be fair, America is the only place where a group of troubled teens can walk into there school with assault rifles and rip the **** outta the place. Also how old was that kid who shot a pupil with his dads gun, like 6 or 7 years old?
Sometimes life gets you down and it makes you want to lash out, if there is a gun handy then you might just use it.

We agree to disagree i suppose

 

[Zodijackyl]

To be fair, America is the only place where a group of troubled teens can walk into there school with assault rifles and rip the **** outta the place. Also how old was that kid who shot a pupil with his dads gun, like 6 or 7 years old?
Sometimes life gets you down and it makes you want to lash out, if there is a gun handy then you might just use it.

We agree to disagree i suppose

There's still the same amount of violence, just being more guns here, more of it is with guns.
As far as I can remember, nobody every walked into an American school with an assault rifle and shot it up. Any shootings were with lower power weapons.
Where else are there major shootings in schools? Russia, Israel, Turkey, and other countries have had similar problems.

US laws are undoubtedly better than UK laws, at least in some places. The UK should have taken a page out of US law, and this way at least Tony Blair wouldn't have been elected a third time.

 

[Byaxident]

There's still the same amount of violence, just being more guns here, more of it is with guns.
As far as I can remember, nobody every walked into an American school with an assault rifle and shot it up. Any shootings were with lower power weapons.
Where else are there major shootings in schools? Russia, Israel, Turkey, and other countries have had similar problems.

US laws are undoubtedly better than UK laws, at least in some places. The UK should have taken a page out of US law, and this way at least Tony Blair wouldn't have been elected a third time.

Hmmm Columbine? Not sure exactly what guns they had but im pretty sure they had automatic weapons.

 

[Zodijackyl]

Hmmm Columbine? Not sure exactly what guns they had but im pretty sure they had automatic weapons.

12 gauge Savage-Springfield 67H pump-action shotgun
Hi-Point 995 Carbine 9mm semi-automatic rifle with 10 round magazines

9mm Intratec Tec-9 Semi-automatic handgun manufactured by Navegar, Inc. with 32 round magazines
12 gauge Stevens 311D double barreled shotgun

And automatic weapons and assault rifles are not the same thing.