Best build using some MA?

layn

New member
Best build using some MA?

Ok, yes I do feel like a bit of a coward asking this specific question, but after making a few MA assassins that simply weren't very good in Hell, I thought I'd ask for some real help here:

Which build using MA, if any, becomes very good -- able to not only solo hell, but do it with ease, finesse, and confidence after gearing appropriately? I'm looking for a build that can shine well in group play and not just survive solo by relying on CoS every group.

I realize I sound like I want the easy way out, but I'm not looking for a character as obscenely strong as a hammerdin or anything. I have a trap assassin that does exceptionally well, but I'd like to build a MA sin (or even hybrid, I'm fine with that) that can compete more-or-less just as well. I've read all the PvM guides on this site but it's difficult for me, in my noobness, to tell which are most successful after getting gear. Getting the right gear isn't too much of a problem, I have enough patience for it, I just want to know that the character will truly shine and not end up yet another sin that I feel is fun, but lackluster in quality.

I appreciate the advice, referring to guides linked on this site works just fine for me as well, I just need to know which you all think makes a great and powerful sin by end-game.
 
Re: Best build using some MA?

Look here :P

Tiger Strike/Dragon Tail works pretty good too, but most people are annoyed by the charging-up and immunity issues.
 
Re: Best build using some MA?

I'd be willing to try a trap hybrid if that's what people think works best. As to the phoenix strike build, I tried a build following that guide and it was, imo, pretty terrible due to next delay killing the CoT dmg. I also have a sin that followed the "immobilizer" guide on this site (BoI with Dtail) and it was a lot more fun but the dmg was very low, especially in group games. It was of course all AE dmg, but the area is so small and dmg so miniscule that it wasn't performing too well.
 
Re: Best build using some MA?

Note that the gear setup I suggested in the other thread is for budget use. You'd need much more +skills for the trap tree to begin shining. If you plan to melee as much as possible, only max Death Sentry in the trap tree and forget about its synergies.

The Phoenix Striker needs, imo, much more +skills than those possible with Nat's set to really shine. It's a pretty defensive set really, and doesn't allow much damage potential with any build.

An Infinity merc sure would help too, if that's within your budget.
 
Re: Best build using some MA?

Look here :P

Tiger Strike/Dragon Tail works pretty good too, but most people are annoyed by the charging-up and immunity issues.

C/C Tiger Strike / Dragon Claw even nicer :) Those skills have really high Ar and damage bonuses, quite overlooked.


 
Re: Best build using some MA?

Depends on what else you're including in the build and your definition of "effective." I was following the "Immobilizer" guide on this site which uses BoI as your main charge and dtail as the finisher. CoT I started maxing later after filling the synergy in PS. I was able to solo hell, which means that the build is somewhat effective, but the damage was rather low for my preference -- it's all AE dmg with a small radius, so you're hitting small groups each time. I must admit it was a lot of fun, but it didn't feel like it was getting much stronger with gear upgrades and didn't have the killing power that most any other class has. It was also rather frustrating that BoI will usually not freeze at least one guy that's within the radius due to lag, and oftentimes will find a way to miss several. I turned to the PS build from this site hoping it would pump a lot more dmg but due to next delay, it really didn't feel much stronger (I must admit I didn't take this build all the way up and gear it though).

That's the jist of why I'm here -- those builds are fun, but I want a build that also has some serious wrecking potential late game with gear and it didn't feel like those would. BoI and CoT dmg just never seems to scale well enough to kill quickly in anything except single player games. I was thinking about trying the Rift-a-sin build from this site but I wanted to ask people's opinions first and see if there was a majority that felt a different build is more effective.
 
Re: Best build using some MA?

still looking for more experienced opinions from people that have played all the way up :wave:
 
Re: Best build using some MA?

I've been meaning to try this but i've yet to find a 3 socket pb.

I was going to go with a dtailer (dtali/ts), using a Lawbringer wep. The problem with dtail in general is the physical immune monsters and maginc immune monsters.

Decrep can sometimes remove physical immunities, and the sanctuary aura will always ignore undead physical resistance, which can result in huge fire damage.

Some will think it's heresy to run with RIP on a sin though.

This build will have a lot of problems with fire immune packs though and I'm not sure how to deal with it in an easy way (other than infi stick).
 
Re: Best build using some MA?

Until recently I've run dual claw sins of various types, all MA oriented... mostly cause claws are kinda cool and I was convinced with the right balance of gear, stats and skills I'd eventually work out a build that was decently effective. Sadly they always kinda sucked, getting weapon damage and a block rate that's even remotely respectable is very difficult with dual claw and requires a massive skill investment. Alternatively shield/weapon on a dtalon kicker gives you a lightning fast attack with excellent damage, frees up skill points that would usually go to charge-up skills, claw mastery and weapon block for use elsewhere and makes a decent block rate easily obtainable.

Set-up is pretty easy, run enough strength for your boots (you'll need elite boots for respectable kick damage, preferably myrmidon greaves or mirrored boots, upped gore riders (myrmidon) being probably the strongest choice, though shadow dancers (myrmidon) and double upped goblin toes (mirrored) are also decent options. Enough strength for boots pretty much gives you enough strength for almost any other gear you could want to carry, so I wouldn't put any more in beyond that. Enough dex for max block on your shield of choice (with final gear) and pump the rest into vitality, a few points in energy wont hurt the overall build but you'll find it's not necessary to invest any.

Skill choices I run with are dtalon at level 18, ensures a minimum of 4 kicks per dtalon with any gear and a +skills goal of 24 for an extra kick (+3 torch, +1 anni and +2 somewhere else on gear will do it) and level 18 dtalon is still very powerful. I also put 1 point in dflight to allow me to teleport in to attack quickly, which is handy for dealing with enemies using ranged attacks. I have maxed shadow master and have venom nearly maxed, as well as an extra point in mind blast to encourage the shadow to throw it more, which helps keep crowds occupied. In traps I have maxed death sentry and put three points in fire blast for an extra sentry shot, as well as put a point in the one point wonder that is blade fury. Once venom is maxed I will have pretty much achieved my build goals and will put any additional points into lightning sentry for more lightning damage on DS via synergy bonus.

Overall gear goals on the defensive side are the usual for a melee char, high elemental resists with absorb being helpful, can not be frozen, faster hit recovery, high block rate, damage reduction, good life leech (%chance to cast life tap is very helpful, ie via draculs grasp) and some mana leech. % damage goes to mana is also worth mentioning as all your attacks consume mana, it'll help stop your mana bottoming out at a really bad time.

On the offensive side you primarily need a fast weapon as your kick speed is dependent on this (ias may be necessary for some weapon choices to keep kick speed reasonable) and a large amount of crushing blow, which helps kicks rip huge chunks of life off. Weapon damage needs to be reasonable as blade fury essentially deals a shuriken of your weapon at 3/4 phys weapon damage with the addition of most on or off weapon modifiers, likewise dtalon also picks up most weapon and on gear damage modifiers and adds them to your boot damage. With these needs in mind you have a ton of choices with regard to dealing effective damage via both attacks, they both frequently set off chance to cast on striking effects (static being especially useful), both carry your elemental damage, open wounds is most helpful to both attacks, % deadly strike will help blade fury, likewise ignore target defence is very helpful to blade fury.

With +skill items the most benefit is gained on your shadow disciplines tree, as it will increase the durability of your shadow, increase your venom damage and improve other useful skills such as fade, mind blast, cloak of shadows and burst of speed, whilst your martial arts and traps trees only pass on moderate gains from additional skills under this setup.

All in all this is a pretty versatile build, if you look at the build goals, gear wise you can see there's a heap of choices. I would suggest at minimum you want to be able to hit 40-50% chance of crushing blow when using your primary weapon, max resists, ideally some lightning absorb or raised max lightning resistance, and at least 48% faster hit recovery. Beyond that you can totally change the way the build kills with just a weapon change as both your primary attacks carry most weapon modifiers. Other than the boots the only other thing specific I would suggest you will probably need to have is +skill items on weapon switch, a pair of bartucs or a spirit/spirit or spirit/hoto set. This is just a quick switch to cast venom, shadow and fade. With enough +skills elsewhere though the plus skills on switch could be dropped for an alternate weapon/sheild combo for melee use... switch gear that gives massive elemental damage for dealing with phys immunes or that has a chance to cast a useful curse is just a couple options I can think of off the top of my head. Alternatively the whole sin can be rigged to emphasize venom damage via items that give +% damage to poison skills and/or a -% to enemy poison resistance.

I've purposely tried to not be too specific with gear except boots as there are so many choices that are viable with this build.

In pvm, this build deals with individuals and small numbers quickly via kicks, blade fury and shadow. When large groups are involved the shadow will distract enough of them for you to drop death sentries and start attacking without being mobbed, with extra large or nasty aura crowds you can spam mind blast or CoS if you feel it's necessary. Once a corpse or two hits the ground the death sentries pretty much take care of the rest of the work. Venom is there to help deal with phys immunes or when you need higher kill speed, such as if you fall back to blade fury for dealing with mana burners or are at high risk of being cursed with iron maiden. Knockback can also be useful as it triggers well off blade fury allowing you to use your shuriken to move enemies onto trapped corpses or keep mana burners pinned against a distant wall.
As for bosses, well just cursor lock and hold down dtalon, with a good setup you leach harder than they can damage and even hell baal is no challenge in a full game on bnet.

If you decide to try this out an need any further thoughts feel free to msg me, otherwise good luck with whatever you choose I hope it works out well.
 
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Re: Best build using some MA?

Maxing the 3 dual claw chargeups and pheonix strike is as close as your gana get to soloing hell with ease.

a couple of years ago at the Barons Bazaar we held a competition to see how far you could get using only your starting gear.

the winner was a phoenix striker who got through to act 1 hell before we ran out of time.


oh yeah, this was in hardcore.



 
Re: Best build using some MA?

a couple of years ago at the Barons Bazaar we held a competition to see how far you could get using only your starting gear.

the winner was a phoenix striker who got through to act 1 hell before we ran out of time.


oh yeah, this was in hardcore.

Interesting.

I don't use death sentry though. Don't really need it. If I want to do mass damage over a wide area I'll just stick with Pheonix Strike's chain lightning. Seems like wasted skill points that could go to Cmastery or Cblock.

Well it's one of the cheapest builds to make and perfect. Easy to use at the start and end unlike most builds that are dependent on some lvl 30 skill or item.


 
Re: Best build using some MA?

i strongly advise you to give Death Sentry a try. find a claw with +DS on it if you doubt me and give it a go.

seriously, it's one of the top two AoE killing skills in the game (the other being the necro P&B skill Corpse Explosion).

i promise, you will be AMAZED at how fast even a lvl1 death sentry can help clear out vast areas.
 
Re: Best build using some MA?

I've just gotten back into my kicker, and one thing kills me: mana leech PIs. ugh.

Solution? I have them chase me, kill 1 maybe 2 things, drop DS and the screen explodes.



+1 to trying DS.
 
Re: Best build using some MA?

I've just gotten back into my kicker, and one thing kills me: mana leech PIs. ugh.

Solution? I have them chase me, kill 1 maybe 2 things, drop DS and the screen explodes.



+1 to trying DS.

I got alot of tools for dealing with phy immunes for my kicker. One of the best, lawbringer, and azurewrath works great too if you don't have lawbringer. Slaughter phy immunes like helpless babies. You do however have to sacrafice death sentry when using lawbringer, but it doesn't matter cause it's a really powerful weapon. In certain situations azurewrath will do better damage, it's huge 500 magic damage deals 500 damage regardless of resistances in hell, cept immunities.

Found a claw that casts amp, but I seem to struggle using it. Maybe cause I was too lazy to use something other than dracs.




To Meph, no thanks, don't need death sentry. Mass spamming of pheonix strike erratically wipes out mobs on a massive scale. Many end up freezing and shattering to pieces anyways. Only need it for my sins that can't 1 hit many tough monsters. I would have to get to level 93 just to get it anyways, and getting to 90 toke long enough.


 
Re: Best build using some MA?

The only problem with the azure and law...I barely have gear :P

I'm lucky to have what I do, but even with PS, DS works well. Alot will be CI or LI.


The PI was just an example since she does that kind of dmg (and venom, but vs ghosts....ouch)
 
Re: Best build using some MA?

Azurewrath is pretty cheap to me.

Without something like that stuff like ghosts or w/e are going to be a nightmare to deal with.

Unless your a powerful trapper/kicker hybrid your gana need a flexible weapon.
 
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