Bases for Ice/Faith/Brand bows and more!

TheNix

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With the latest PoE patch looking like a fizzer, it is time to look at some of the D2 builds that I've never really gone into at any depth. I cannot say that I have ignored bow builds, but they have never been at the forefront of mind. So, bows builds it is! I have never used a Windforce on a build, nor have I ever looked at the interesting missile runewords; I think it's time to rectify that. What do people suggest as good bases for these runewords? As well as the usual Amazon fair, what are some interesting non-Amazon bow build suggestions? Ta muchly.
 
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Swamigoon

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I also recommend hunter druids. Also, I think necromancers can get better attack speeds with crossbows than most other non-amazon heroes, so there might be some interesting runeworded crossbows you might like to try - perhaps with a golem, other summons, a bone wall/prison build, dim vision and other curses, etc.
 
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Babyhell

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@art_vandelay maybe you still have the reference on diabloii or even moved the comparison thread you made about the bows?

@TheNix on my side I am going for the-runeword-you-didn't-name, aka Wrath. I will use a MB as there's no IAS built in. For potential merc Faith, I'll take a Great bow because it's a fast base too...anyway.

I also moved this thread, at the end there are some bases proposal.
 
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art_vandelay

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@Babyhell You definitely saw it :p
 
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TheNix

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Thanks guys for your input. I have already made a hunter druid, but that was quite a long time ago. Although I have a reasonable supply of runes, I'm not super rich so I was looking for bows with a little more flexibility that just Amazon bows. A Faith bow on a merc is something I definitely want to do; I'm currently planning an Amazon build with an Faith merc, I just have not yet decided whether it will be a bowzon or a javazon.
 

PhineasB

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Hunter Druid with Faith is quite fun, indeed. I enjoyed that approach, with fanat and might (from merc) helping the summons. He was surprisingly strong. Write up is here in case helpful. I also plan to run a Ranger Paladin, with the Superior Shadow Bow 'Ice' that I used with my Ice Maiden -- conviction and resist cold synergizing HF damage, and likely lots of elemental charms. Ormus robe, likely Dream helm (and synergizing lightning resist) were some other gear pieces. I think it will be a blast, so another option for an non-Mat Ice if you make it for Ice Maiden. In terms of merc Faith, some 2H melee characters are opened up to smooth playthroughs, as the fanaticism solves the slow IAS that often comes with that. As noted elsewhere, I also plan to respec my Ice Maiden to a Windforce strafer wtih Faith Rogue. So that's always an option too. Hope you find a few fun bow-based builds!
 

Jamie

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Meechigan
I have a couple 15/3 Blade Bows and an Amazon in Hell A2 that is pretty darn good with her rare bow and very good assortment of twinked gear (Fort,low ed/ias helm/dual leech ring/LoH/Razortail/Gores(suggestion for better boots lol?)/nice max damage/ar/life,empty or elemental damage and some elemental damage charms:

Wraith Flight
Spider Bow
Two Hand Damage: 118 - 233
Durability: 18 of 20
Required Level: 55
Required Strength: 64
Required Dexterity: 143
Fingerprint: 0xf2161b96
Item Level: 99
Version: Expansion 1.10+
366% Enhanced Damage
+11 to Minimum Damage
+143 to Attack Rating
+94% Damage to Undead
+121 to Attack Rating against Undead
Knockback
Required Level +7
1 Sockets (1 used)
Socketed: Nef Rune


But I really want to turn a 15/3 Blade Bow into either an Ice or Faith. I'm leaning Faith very hard, as I love Strafe. I currently(will be tweaked later on) have a [max Strafe/13 Multi Arrow/2 Guided Arrow/3 Frozen Arrow] [10 Critical Strike/8 Pierce/7 Penetrate/7 Valkry(lvl 18 with prebuff gear, minus a CtA I haven't bothered using. I keep Tiamat's/Titan's on switch for more elemental damage against PI packs or unbreakables)/4-8-5 top to bottom in the evasive skills] [1 to Jab for the PI packs or unbreakables]

I have 3x Sur, 1x Vex, 11 Um and 2 Lem, in the slot I keep all runes Lem++. Tons of lower runes. So I am a good LK session or two away from being able to create a Faith. Ice started attracting me recently, with a Frozen Arrow setup. I assume Cold Immunes that can't be broken, can easily be handled with physical bow attacks. Ice definitely is tempting, but a Faith probably makes more sense as my first big time bow. The idea of using an Ice on a Paladin, pumping up Holy Freeze, adding Might(I assume, unless a better option is available with A5 item based aura), Holy Shock from Dream Helm and possibly Holy Fire from Dragon Armor. I don't know how good it would work, but it sounds like a blast. But since Strafe is so fun, I'm thinking Faith. I want to use it in a bow that is able to be used on A1 Mercs and my Bowzon. I don't know how much better it will be than my rare bow, but I assume quite a bit.

I plan on using Might Merc with her. He currently is using Guillame's, Eth Shael'd Reaper's Toll and Eth Treachery. I also swap between Cat's Eye and Atma's Scarab currently, depending on the density of physical immunes. I will probably go with Cat's Eye forward, it just took me forever to find one and I happened to be currently playing in the area with the bug swarms that are PI.

Awhile back, I was told by the majority that I should use a Shadow Bow or something besides the Blade Bow. We had lots of discussions and debates about it. I have to be happy with my item and I find the Blade Bow to be the most visual appealing of the bow designs and the 15/3 was like a deal closer for my D2 related OCD lol.

The speed of the Blade Bow is top notch and the 15ED raises the average damage output to 35.5, versus 37 on a non-superior Shadow Bow. The Blade Bow speed will outpace the Shadow Bow DPS and since Faith has a fixed ED% and no mod to plain attack rating, the perfect 15/3 Superior mods will stick out, which really does it for me lol.

If you have equal quality(plain or 15/3 or similar superior ed), then Blade Bow doesn't come out on top. Great Bow does a little more damage, Shadow does 6 more average damage, with slightly slower speed. Hydra and Crusader do 39 average damage, with much slower speed.

I would go with what makes you happy, while maintaining efficiency. If you want your bow to be available to Mercs and all character classes, obviously don't use GMB or MB. Figure out what gear you want on the rest of the slots, to see if you want the fastest bows (like Blade or Great) or can makeup for a slower bow and want more damage (Shadow/Damond). Once you discern between that, you can go with what is available to you or if it matters to you, go with what looks the best to you. In the end, you want to be happy with what you are looking at in the end. That is why I will more than likely go with the Blade Bow, despite it not being a popular decision. Unless I land upon a 15/3 4os Shadow or Diamond Bow soon and think the damage is too much to pass up.

Do people ever make Hand of Justice in Bows? It seems like it would be an item that is much too expensive for its benefits and mainly something for a Merc to take advantage of. I guess it's one of those runewords that any Act Merc could take advantage of, which is convenient.

What makes Wrath so effective at what it does? It definitely seems very niche and something that would be used in a very limited variety. Which is fun to do, don't get me wrong lol.
 
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Babyhell

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What makes Wrath so effective at what it does? It definitely seems very niche and something that would be used in a very limited variety. Which is fun to do, don't get me wrong lol.

Personally I can't answer, it seems much less versatile so to speak, I don't see it of any use outside of a Bowie - which is obviously not the case for Faith and Ice. I bet it would be somehow less effective probably...if you're interested in, as soon as I get the lacking Sur/Ber and am able to use it - will have to level up a fresh Amazon - again, it is going to be my 2020 character - i'll take some vids of her running some areas and share on her thread.
 
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Nano

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Awhile back, I was told by the majority that I should use a Shadow Bow or something besides the Blade Bow. We had lots of discussions and debates about it. I have to be happy with my item and I find the Blade Bow to be the most visual appealing of the bow designs and the 15/3 was like a deal closer for my D2 related OCD lol.

The speed of the Blade Bow is top notch and the 15ED raises the average damage output to 35.5, versus 37 on a non-superior Shadow Bow. The Blade Bow speed will outpace the Shadow Bow DPS and since Faith has a fixed ED% and no mod to plain attack rating, the perfect 15/3 Superior mods will stick out, which really does it for me lol.

If you have equal quality(plain or 15/3 or similar superior ed), then Blade Bow doesn't come out on top. Great Bow does a little more damage, Shadow does 6 more average damage, with slightly slower speed. Hydra and Crusader do 39 average damage, with much slower speed.

Just a reminder about how that 15 ED is calculated.
https://www.diabloii.net/forums/threads/base-for-faith-bow.966445/#post-8863526
 
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TheNix

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Again, thanks for the info. At the moment it is all a little moot as I have had a look at my stash and, other than a nice 4os superior Shadow bow, I've got sweet bugger all in the bow department. I'll have to kill some cows or something and hope for the best!
 

Jamie

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Meechigan

I forget more than I remember, that is for sure. So even though the base damage on a 15%ED bow reads out as higher than a plain bow of the same variety, when the runeword is completed, it will go straight into the ED% on the runeword, as opposed to the ED% coming from the higher listed damage on the bow before it becomes a runeword? Or is what I am saying all the same lol? With the better speed of Blade Bow and having the extra 15%ED, is the difference neglible at that point?

I went back through that thread and discovered that the Blade Bow mathematically isn't the best option. Using a [-10] bow seems to not stack up on even grounds. Especially considering that I use Strafe the majority of the time lol. I hate that I love the style of the Blade Bow so much more than the others and that I happened to stroll upon a couple 15/3 Blade Bows, to add to my OCD number and looks issues with this game.

I get a little confused on the Guided Arrow, Frozen Arrow, Multi Shot that I use on bosses and certain levels, versus how Strafe works.

The Spider Bow I posted above, is slaying everything on P8 in Hell up to this point(only A2 at the moment though). But I have a Fort, Cat's Eye finally+Atma's(situational), 41%ED/45%IAS/28 Life Great Helm, Razortail, LoH, Attk Rtng/5LL/5ML/28LR Ring, RFrost, Gore Rider's(not sure if I am wasting slot due to bow/CS on Zon. Should I go Wtravs or other?). Then lots of max damage charms, some having AR and Life and a few elemental charms. Titan's and Tiamat's Rebuke on switch for help on some PI monsters.

No CtA on her right now, but level 18 Valk after prebuff as a great tank and my A2 Might Merc has an Eth 'Shael' Reaper's Toll/Guillame's/Eth Treachery for constant decrep, tanking and good damage. Is my math correct on my Merc and his breakpoints being hit, lol? Would be helpful if someone could point it if I made a mistake and could swap some things around for more efficiency.

I haven't had a legitimate Bowzon since 1.09, when things were wildly different. Other than a Classic one on Bnet, at least 5,6 or more years ago, that I kept at level 19 and used a really strong Gothic Bow, with low level req, that I could take down really high level characters with guided arrow lol. But the options on Classic make it really simple to figure out what you need to use lol.

In fact, last night I stripped my Zon's Fortitude and a couple charms and things to put back on my LvL92 Zealer, so I could do Travincal runs. LK wasn't panning out too well on my Sorc I regeared for 200FCR and I was getting bored with popping chests, so I decided to go Trav now. If this doesn't pan out by the time it gets redundant, I guess it will be Javazon/Hell Cow time lol. But mainly pointing out that I have to change gear up a lot when I want a character to have the best I have. I am not near wealthy enough to have complete builds that I don't need to take apart to make another character viable. ie. 1 Enigma, 1 Infinity, 1 Fortitude, 1 Grief and so on...just keep working on the most useful and versatile runewords as I go on. I had to restart already once on Single Player, due to a hard drive crash a few years back(I am backed up on a USB now lol) and before that I was always on Bnet, until I finally couldn't take the cheating anymroe lol, so I don't have much Single Player wealth or time in yet. But I am chasing that last Sur-Jah Rune with these runs, so I can then make the tough decision on whether to make the Faith, wait for a superior base that isn't the 15/3 Blade Bow I want to use, Oh so badly lol. Perhaps I should try to trade for a good Faith Base?

Since the post from the old site, I made an Infinity and possibly a few other things. I play on and off in streaks quite frequently. But I am again back in position to make a Faith and my deep love for Bowzons from the 1.09 days of Bnet, has me devoting these runes to a Bow for sure. Especially since I turned my first one into a Javazon(found Griffon's, 186/9Eth Titan's and had to respec. Also helped me pull the trigger on the Infinity and put Enigma on her. She is a beast, but something about shooting bows is amazingly satisfying.) and had to rebuild a bowzon again. Luckily I found that Spider Bow and moved Fort from Zealer to her for leveling up and twinked her out and she has been extremely effective, so I can't wait for having an actual Faith or WF or bow that is even more powerful and fun to use.

Sorry for the long post. Just trying to explain my situation and all. It is heartbreaking that, #1 the 15/3 Blade Bow is only going to get used if I decide my obsession with perfect numbers and the beautiful look of the Blade Bow design, trump the math. And #2 I will almost certainly have the runes ready here soon and won't want to make a Faith with a base that doesn't have the good superior mods to go along with it. So, while it originally felt like I would have a Faith very soon, that may not be the case at all. Anyone with a tradeable 15/3 base that is more mathematically sound, holler at me lol.

Thank you for pointing me back out to a thread in which I forgot all of the important numbers @Nano ! I would have never found that. Need to work on having a better memory hahahah.
 
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SirName

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@Jamie
The base damage is the same for superior and non superior weapons. What is displayed is the result of this base damage multiplied with the ed superior gives. The ed on a superior weapon is additive with any ed from a possible runeword.

What does this 15% ed mean in hard numbers for a blade bow with 31 average damage? 31*0,15= 4,65. Your superior blade bow will do 4,65 average damage more than a regular blade bow per hit with same runeword with same ed roll. For comparison: this is comparable to having a built in Ith rune (+9 to max damage = +4,5 average damage).